What to do ?!?!?!?!?!??!?!

**dazbo** · 09-05-2005, 03:52 PM

Hi

I have done 2 cycles this year, my first. One was sus/deca /dbol and the other was var/prop. I didnt get much out of either of them. In fact I was less weight after the pct of my first cycle, and the same weight after PCT of my second. I only gained a few pounds on my var/prop cycle but I guess I did lose a little fat too. Anyway they were bad experiences that cost me a lot of money, and a poor sex drive once done which I didnt like. After PCT on my 2nd cycle, my sex drive is now back up to almost normal. Ive had blood work done and will find out the results tomorrow.

Anyway the story is, Ive had a few problems with my left shoulder over the past yr or two. Ive never really given it more than a months rest and because of this, I think thats the reason why Ive always suffered with it. I also started to have a pain when using my left bicep (More inside the joint than the actual bicep).

At the end of my last cycle which I finished mid july this year, my shoulder and arm were causing a lot of problems. So much so I couldnt even do my warm up sets on the bench, and Biceps training was well out of the Question!

Its now been 2 1/2 months since really going to the gym. I told myself just to have a complete rest to let it recover properly as I dont want to have to quit training completely. Ive never had more than a few weeks of training since I started nearly 7 years ago! This has killed me.

I realise, I could have kept going and done stuff that didnt involve them, but, it didnt really leave much other than legs!! And, I play football twice per week anyway. Also, for both me and my training partner, its been an ideal time to have off because we've both had a lot on.

So, I am now in a state where I dont even want to go on the scales anymore. I know Ive lost mucle, and I also know Ive gained a little fat. I almost had my 8 pack before this! now I only have the 6 in the right light!

The thing is, I told myself, after the bad cycles I'd had, that they were a waste of money, gave me more body hair than I liked, and messed with my sex drive so much that I never want to do them again. But, soon I will be going back to the gym again. I feel terrible because Im no where near the size and shape I was before (Well in my head). I made it up to 91kg with really low BF and now Im around 85kg with increased BF!

I also know my strength will be lost even though I did really well before to get where I got. So, I am now thinking about doing the steroids again.

Obviously, I wont be doing them straight away. I want to have at LEAST 2 months proper hardcore, natural training again while I get back into the swing of things again. Then to start the cycle.

I am 23, currently around 185-187lbs, 5'10", and now around 12%BF. My arms, previous to being on cycle were 18", chest 48", thighs 26". I dont have a clue what they are now though and dont want to know!

Can someone please help me out with some advice as to what to do in my situation because I really feel bad about myself at the minute, I fell like everything is trying to knock me back down when I start getting somewhere.

Please advise on a cycle that will quickly give me the gains I had back. I want it to be simple, with no more than 3 compounds inc 1 oral (If needed). my last cycles i did -

first - 250mg sus EW, 200mg deca EW for 10 weeks, Dbol 30mg wks 1-4.
second - 525mg prop EW 1-11, Var 50 mg wks 3-10

I didnt notice any increase in strength, and my end resulting weight after PCT, I didnt gain anything, maybe a little on the second cycle but all that has been lost now. So, I would like to try in the regions of 1000mg test enth EW, maybe 500mg deca too, and dbol to start. Or any other ideas in those dosage regions please.

thanks

darren

**dazbo** · 09-05-2005, 03:53 PM

PS. Of course I did proper PCT too with nolva/clomid/trib/tong kat and also increased cals etc etc

thanks

**Swifto** · 09-05-2005, 03:59 PM

In my opinion 1000mg/wk of Test is for the very experienced. This is not needed for a 3rd cycle. Dbol /Test/Deca for mass will be the right way to go IMHO as this will be your 3rd cycle. For keepable gains Test/EQ ending the last 6 weeks Prop 100mg/ED.

I think if your prepared to do this? Run a longer cycle of over 15 weeks, including some HCG . 16 weeks of Test/EQ and the final 6 weeks Prop should help you reach your goals IMHO. Your body fat should drop and you should see some good attainable gains. HCG must also be included, this will also make recovery after the cycle a little easier.

***Mr. Sparkle*** · 09-05-2005, 04:01 PM

Sust sucks, stay far far away....

Prop or enanthate , and tren should be a fun cycle....
And if props used, use tren A.
And if test enanthates used, use tren enanthate.

**oliver2828** · 09-05-2005, 05:46 PM

Are you sure your gear wasnt bunk? I'm using sust right now and in my 4th week and already gained 15lbs. So in my opinion sust deffinatley does not suck.

**icedudez** · 09-05-2005, 05:54 PM

Originally Posted by Mr. Sparkle

Sust sucks, stay far far away....

Prop or enanthate , and tren should be a fun cycle....
And if props used, use tren A.
And if test enanthates used, use tren enanthate.

why does it suck?!?!!!?/

**ant_8u** · 09-05-2005, 05:59 PM

Originally Posted by Mr. Sparkle

Sust sucks, stay far far away....

Prop or enanthate , and tren should be a fun cycle....
And if props used, use tren A.
And if test enanthates used, use tren enanthate.

Yep

Impossible to keep stable blood levels - Sust sucks!

**dazbo** · 09-06-2005, 09:07 AM

sus doesnt kick in till around week 6 anyway so how could the 15lbs youve gained be from that ?? You must be using something else in there, and most of those gains will be water retention.

I kept trying to decide whether my gear was bunk, but in the end, it had to be real. I never used to be anywhere near as hairy as I am now. Plus, when I came off, my sex drive was the shits. Also, a couple of mates used the same gear from the same guy, and had good gains. My diet was spot on, check out my previous posts, Im not stupid when it comes to training and diet.

Had a couple of ideas for cycles above there. Which to go for ?!?? I dont want it to be too hard on me so if sides are a prob wi tren , then Ill leave that out. Also, regarding test dose. What about 750mg EW of enth ??? or there abouts? Its just, I didnt really respond to my last cycles at those doses. I got to a good size naturally, with proper diet and training before using AAS so I beleive thats the reason why I might need a little more test in there. Its not like Im an untrained skinny guy, who doesnt eat properly and gains 25lbs on 1 cycle!

If I gained 18lbs and kept 10-14lbs, I would be happy with that - it would be classed as a good cycle to me. But, my past ones I can get anything from practically! My first cycle, I gained around 15lbs at my highest but once PCT was over with, I had gone back down to pretty much my start weight!

I was going to keep away from deca due to it messing up the wood but if you guys think its worth it for big keepable gains, ill use it. Also, Oral wise I would like to keep low a zero or at least a minimum.

Thanks for the help so far

darren

**dazbo** · 09-06-2005, 09:10 AM

Oh yeah, I just got my bloodwork back today.

VERY good results!! The doc was well impressed - he commented on how I must really eat healthily, and work hard to stay as healthy as I am! He said my cholesterol levels were well low, and the ratios were great! He also said my heamoglobin levels were really high - as though I used something (He said the name which began with an "E") to increase the oxygen carrying ability of the blood. Like what endurance athletes use to help the run longer etc.!

My thyroid levels were in the high range of normal, which I expected to be low so was happy. Blood sugar was great and all the other stuff they check out - said was perfect! And thats after 2 cycles of AAS - who said they were bad for you ?!?!!?!?

**IBdmfkr** · 09-06-2005, 09:23 AM

It is very rare that someone doesn't gain from their first two cycles. Maybe check you diet and consume more calories. Don't be affraid to put on a few extra lbs on a bulking cycle, you can cut them off when your finished. Other than that, not sure. Don't know how your diet, training routine, etc so it's hard to comment. Maybe your receptors just suck and juice isn't for you.

Try test E at 500mg/week 1-12, Eq 400mg/wk 1-10, and dbol 40mg/day weeks 1-4

**dazbo** · 09-06-2005, 09:33 AM

OK here is the diet -

CUTTING -

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...11#post1838911

BULKING -

see pic

I cant find the actual food/meal list for the bulking diet but I think everything needed is in the piccy.

You'll see I was eating 5000cals per day when bulking, and my cals started at 4000 while in my lean bulking stage of second cycle, and dropped to 2900 on the cutting part near the end. Heres the end of that cycle diet -

OPTIONS:-
Meal 1 –
• ALL PLUS FLAX OIL
• Scrambled Egg whites x 6 + Protein Shake

64g Prot 8g carbs 31g fat 547 cals
Meal 2 –
• 2 x Tuna Pattie (3)
• 150g Lean turkey Mince (2)
• Tin Tuna (1)
36g prot 0g carbs 4g fat 180 cals (1)
36g prot 0g carbs 13g fat 261 cals (2)
50g prot 13g carbs 17g fat 434 cals (3)
Meal 3 –
• Chicken Breasts x 2

88g prot 2g carbs 1g fat 369cals
Meal 4 PreWO –
• Whey Protein + 0.5cup Oats (Blended)

49g prot 33g carbs 6g fat 364 cals
Meal 5 –PWO
• 40g Whey Protein + 80g Dextrose

43g prot 82g carbs 4g fat 513 cals
Meal 6 –
• Chicken + Brown Rice + Veg (1)
• Chicken + Pasta (Wholemeal) (2)
• Tuna, Pasta, Mayo (4)
• Tuna Bol + Pasta (Wholemeal) (5)
• Chicken Breasts x 2 + Curry Sauce + Brown Rice (3)
• Fish + Any of above side options

78g prot 62g carbs 3g fat 587 cals
Meal 7 -
• Tin Tuna Plus Flax (2)
• 6 x Scrambled Egg Whites (1)

21g prot 2g carbs 14g fat 219 cals (1)
36g prot 0g carbs 18g fat 300 cals
2980cals 395gpro 195g carb 71g Fat = 53:26:21

Totals = 3114cals 408g Prot 200g Carbs 80g Fat Ratios = 52:25:23 (P:C:F) (3)
Totals = 2980cals 395g Prot 195g Carbs 71g Fat Ratios = 53:26:21 (P:C:F) avg
Totals = 2843cals 379g Prot 190g Carbs 63g Fat Ratios = 53:27:20 (P:C:F) (1)

hope this helps

thanks

**dazbo** · 09-06-2005, 09:35 AM

Also, regarding the gains being really good on your first few cycles - check this out, this is pretty much what I beleive and will do until someone proves otherwise -

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...12#post1828312

thanks

**dazbo** · 09-06-2005, 11:41 AM

bump

**oliver2828** · 09-06-2005, 12:25 PM

in your bulking diet the protien and the carbs looks good but id try and up the calories to about 4000-4500. that should help you put on some weight. and dude my sust has already kicked in. I usually do 255 8 times on bench and yesterday i got it 12. So i think it kicked in.

**dazbo** · 09-06-2005, 02:22 PM

In my bulking diet my calories were at 5000 ?????
The only time I went less was on my second cycle when I was LEAN bulking, and cals were 4000 ish, then dropped to 2900 towards the end to cut up as much as.

**dazbo** · 09-06-2005, 02:23 PM

and you doin a cycle with JUST sus in it Oliver ??

**Hazard** · 09-06-2005, 03:04 PM

imho.... EQ is a waste of money unless ran at atleast 800mg's/wk for minimum of 12 weeks.......

i ran it at 600mg's/wk for 14 weeks and i was not impressed at all.....

if your looking to pack on some mass..... drop the EQ right now! here's what i suggest.....

1-5 Dbol 40mg's/day
1-14 Test E - 750mg's/wk
1-12 Tren E - 300mg's/wk

maybe even consider 250mg's/wk with the tren because it's your 1st time.....

Also.... you can substitute the tren for deca ..... if you do that... i'd say run 400-500mg's/wk.

the reason i stopped the tren at week 12 and kept the test until week 14 is because tren can shut you down pretty hard..... so i like to run the test longer than the tren.

Start HCG around week 7 and run 250iu's EOD for 2 weeks..... then cut it back to 250iu's twice a week until you hit PCT..... then drop the HCG and start your clomid.

~haz~

**dazbo** · 09-06-2005, 03:17 PM

Is that meant for me haz ?? Its just I havent started a cycle yet and wont be for a few months.

I like the look of that cycle. I think I would do a 16wk cycle next mind. so Id stop the tren at wk14 then.

What anti e's would you recommened while on cycle. Im not prone to gyno, and my last cycles i didnt notice any bloat at all from water. I was thinking of just using liquidex at 0.5mg ED in my next cycle - wot you think ?? Or not enough ?

**dazbo** · 09-06-2005, 03:19 PM

oh yeah and thanks!

**Hazard** · 09-06-2005, 03:31 PM

While i would run tren for 14 weeks... i wouldn't advise it.... being it's your 1st run with tren. However i wont tell you what to do.....

As far as anti E's go..... im nto prone to gyno at all either.... and what i do IS NOT recommended at all..... I usually wont run any anti E's durring cycle..... until my last 2 weeks before PCT..... and then i start running nolvadex and liquidex.....

When you run your anti E's is solely up to you..... if you want to run L-dex ED i'd drop it to .25/ED. ALWAYS keep nolvadex on hand incase you see signs of gyno!

another option instead of running tren 14 weeks is this.....

1-4 Dbol 40mg's/ED
1-16 Test E 750mg's/wk
1-12 Tren E 300mg's/wk
11-18 winny 50mg's/ed

In this cycle your keeping the tren at 12 weeks.... and adding another compound which can help you lean out. Normally i wouldn't recommend 2 orals in the same cycle but the Dbol isn't a crazy dosage.... it was shortened to 4 weeks... and you have a 7 week break before you start the winny. You can also substitute the winny for anavar ..... which i would recommend atleast 60mg's/ED to see effective results.

All in all tho bro..... i think the dbol/test/tren will yield some real nice results! Just eat 4000 cals a day of good clean food..... if you don't see results with this one... then either the gear is bunk or your messing something up......

keep us posted on what you decide to do and how your cycle goes! Don't forget to run HCG !

~haz~

**Dalton5** · 09-06-2005, 03:34 PM

Thats a killer grill Mr Sparkle

**dazbo** · 09-07-2005, 09:08 AM

OK thanks for all the help Haz!

I think the above cycle is one I may well do as it looks good to me. The only thing is, the winny may not be done (I def cant afford var again!), its not that I dont like it, its just I wanna keep it fairly simple and cheap also. And, 18wks is a lot!! I think what I will do is the following -

wks 1-4 DBol @ 40mg
wks 1-16 test E 750mg EW
wks 1-12 Tren E 300mg EW
L-Dex @ 0.25mg ED
wks 13-17 Nolva @ 20mg ED
Clomid 300/100 protocol - all PCT until I feel test is back up to norm.
Nolva as needed during

HCG used as and when needed (Ill figure that out with some more research But I think in the last few weeks before PCT from what I remember? Or even mid cycle then end of cycle)

That lookw OK ??

Thanks

**Hazard** · 09-07-2005, 03:57 PM

if your not going to add the winny maybe extend the dbol to 5 or 6 weeks?

the cycle looks good bro..... good luck with it! Remember one thing tho..... your probably going to feel yourself comming off the tren ..... just keep pushing on if you do!

send me a PM when you start your cycle.... im curious to find out how it goes for yah.

~haz~

**dazbo** · 09-09-2005, 08:50 AM

Ok Ive decided against the tren now due to it being so harsh - I'd rather not put myself at unnecessary risk! So, what else you reckon ? Deca ?? Summit else ? thanks

darren

**dazbo** · 09-09-2005, 09:23 AM

Just read through the profile of tren .

Ooooooohh!! Now I just dont know whther or not to use tren!!! I was going to do 750mg test enth and 300mg tren per week but now Ive read all this I just dont know!

I dont want sides, but then all the stuff you need to take with it to prevent progestin probs, sides etc is just gonna make the cost sky high!! Im not made of money sadly!

What type of cycle would someone do on tren and tes enth (PS what is the other longer acting tren because I will do a most of biweekly injections not EOD again!) What ancillaries and other gear would you use and what would ur injection regime be like etc ?? Im new to tren and just researching now!

thanks

darren

**chest6** · 09-09-2005, 09:35 AM

Originally Posted by dazbo

Just read through the profile of tren .

Ooooooohh!! Now I just dont know whther or not to use tren!!! I was going to do 750mg test enth and 300mg tren per week but now Ive read all this I just dont know!

I dont want sides, but then all the stuff you need to take with it to prevent progestin probs, sides etc is just gonna make the cost sky high!! Im not made of money sadly!

What type of cycle would someone do on tren and tes enth (PS what is the other longer acting tren because I will do a most of biweekly injections not EOD again!) What ancillaries and other gear would you use and what would ur injection regime be like etc ?? Im new to tren and just researching now!

thanks

darren

tren e and test e go together well