hormonal facts

[leansauce]

this is mostly for jonnyb who seems to think if u are not 25 your hormone system is not fully developed. first off the developing of your hormone system occurs during puberty and only during puberty... most males go threw puberty between the ages of 14-17. so why is 25 a magic number???? just because you dont like seeing 18-24 year olds using juice doesnt mean that you need to fill them with a bunch of lies thats bull shit man and should not be on this forum since this forum is here to educate us with the facts and what is real, not the stupid bullshit that the mass media and people believe. i agree that test levels are the highest between 18-25 that they will ever be in your life, but that does not mean your hormone system is not fully developed!!! stop the lies. i first thought about juice when i was 18, i went to the doctor and got my plates checked and bloodwork. i had already fully developed heighth wise, and the bloodwork showed that i was producing the proper amount of test for someone with a DEVELOPED HORMONAL SYSTEM! with that out of the way i began reseraching and now at the age of 20 i have weighed the risks verse reward and decided to start my first cycle. i realize my test levels will never be the same but if i stayed at my natural test levels i would be stuck at the plateau i was experiencing forever. i had trained hard since the age of 15 and until i turned 20 i had continued to see results. is that not the reason why we use steroids? to give us a little help when the results stop coming.
all in all i would just appreciate it if you did not lie to the the minds of those who are still researching and contemplating the idea, even if you are disgusted with us using steroids, the fact is we are just as hormonally developed as you....

[leansauce]

also do u honestly think that arnold, columbu, priest, and the countless others didnt start juicing until after the age of 25? cus they dont seem to be ****ed up to me, and i know for a fact arnold juiced b4 he was 19 and priest when he was 16!!! now where are your examples?? o yea thas right just like all the other bullshit that surrounds steroids you dont have anything to prove your theory with hahahaaha
P.S. I DO NOT SUPPORT THE USE OF STEROIDS B4 THE AGE OF 18 OR B4 HAVING A FULLY DEVELOPED HORMONAL SYSTEM!!!! and i am also currently on a pre med path at cal poly, a highly renouned university, and have a mother and a father who are both very successful doctors..

[Swifto]

this is mostly for jonnyb who seems to think if u are not 25 your hormone system is not fully developed. first off the developing of your hormone system occurs during puberty and only during puberty... most males go threw puberty between the ages of 14-17. so why is 25 a magic number???? just because you dont like seeing 18-24 year olds using juice doesnt mean that you need to fill them with a bunch of lies thats bull shit man and should not be on this forum since this forum is here to educate us with the facts and what is real, not the stupid bullshit that the mass media and people believe. i agree that test levels are the highest between 18-25 that they will ever be in your life, but that does not mean your hormone system is not fully developed!!! stop the lies. i first thought about juice when i was 18, i went to the doctor and got my plates checked and bloodwork. i had already fully developed heighth wise, and the bloodwork showed that i was producing the proper amount of test for someone with a DEVELOPED HORMONAL SYSTEM! with that out of the way i began reseraching and now at the age of 20 i have weighed the risks verse reward and decided to start my first cycle. i realize my test levels will never be the same but if i stayed at my natural test levels i would be stuck at the plateau i was experiencing forever. i had trained hard since the age of 15 and until i turned 20 i had continued to see results. is that not the reason why we use steroids? to give us a little help when the results stop coming.
all in all i would just appreciate it if you did not lie to the the minds of those who are still researching and contemplating the idea, even if you are disgusted with us using steroids, the fact is we are just as hormonally developed as you....

Oh dear......

[stupidhippo]

Well I for one think its smart to wait up until about that age.. a couple of years more waiting wont matter and its a bit more risk free prolly. The facts is that so much is still what we dont know and it seems that many people who have started very early have had problems later (i.e they regret using when that young). Everybody is entitled to his/hers opinion but why the bitterness?

[icedudez]

lol that johnny b does have serious beef with young AAS users,. maybe hes jealous he didnt start earlier ?:P

[leansauce]

Well I for one think its smart to wait up until about that age.. a couple of years more waiting wont matter and its a bit more risk free prolly. The facts is that so much is still what we dont know and it seems that many people who have started very early have had problems later (i.e they regret using when that young). Everybody is entitled to his/hers opinion but why the bitterness?

the bitterness is because there is not anymore danger in taking aas as an18-24 year old that has gone threw puberty as there is a 25+ year old taking aas so im tired of all the shit talkin against younger aas users when you guys are doing the exact same damage to your own bodies
JonnyB is a flat out liar when it comes to this matter and i think he should stick to moderating and stay away from stating his opinions on the matter.

[Maetenloch]

There is another peak in testosterone and HGH production during the early 20's (previous peaks ocur during fetal development and later during puberty). So it's not quite true to say that your hormonal system has matured by 18 - most men still have not yet reached their lifetime peak at that point.
There are a couple of reasons behind the 23-25 year old age guideline for starting AAS:
1. Virtually all men's growth plates have sealed by this point, so there's no danger of stunted height due to AAS use.
2. Most men's test production will have peaked by this age, and will slowly decline from here until death. It makes sense to let your natural hormone levels carry you until they peak and begin to decline.
3. Emotional and training maturity. For a lot of men, there's quite a bit of growing up that happens between 18 and 22. If you don't know what your optimal training regimen is for growing while natural, you're going miss out on a lot of the benefits of AAS. The truth is that most people under 22 have little clue as to what the best diet and training methods are for *their* bodies.
4. Legality and personal responsibility. There are legal risks to buying and using AAS. In my opinion, if you're not living in your own place and supporting yourself, you're not in a place in life where you're ready to take these risks.

[leansauce]

as previously stated i realize that around 20ish is when you will have the highest amount of test in your lifetime. my point was that your system has developed as in how if you take roids while still going threw puberty or before you may become impotent and other serious effects are likely, but after puberty wether u have reached your peak test production or not, your hormonal or endocrine system has FULLY DEVELOPED itself to carry out all the functions it is supposed to do. the serious reason why you should not take roids before developed is that it can and likely will cause your endocrine system to function improperly, as in larger problems than a lowered test level. im still waiting for jonnyb to defend his statements that i have read over and over again saying "until the age of 25 your hormonal system has not fully developed yet" you need to start rewording that to your hormonal system is still producing elevated amount and after 25 (for most) is when the test levels naturely begin to decline. i dont think your understanding the point cave man dude

[big_C]

i waited untill i was 25 for first cycle....but not because my body wasn't ready, i think i was ready at 20, i'm a pretty big guy, although i never recomend starting that young, i wasn't ready mentally to make that commitment to BB. Now 10 years l8r and probaly 25 cycles l8r i'm glad i waited, but to each his own, it's your body and if you feel your mature enough it's your decision.

[bignatt]

Lets not trash johnnyB he def gives out some good info and has posted some interesting stuff everyone has there own opinions just respect it

[powerliftmike]

Yeah, JohnnyB is a great member on the forum, as well as a great guy im sure. Everybody is different in growing so the best advice is talk with your doctor. Younger users are generally the ones most likely to abuse AASs for many reasons, hardheadiness being one of them. Maturity normally comes with age and resposible use is key to proper AAS protocols.

[leansauce]

i understand everything u guys are saying but all im trying to get across is i would appreciate it if jonnyb would stop trying to post his opinion on the matter as facts

[fballhoss51]

what does johnnyb post that is opinion? i beleive most of what he says is fact

[ThePhoenix]

dude why are you so defensive about this topic. I am 21 and considering a cycle but i might hold off a few years. your endocrine system DOES NOT fully mature until you are 23-25. that is a FACT. yeah you said your test levels are at their highest now but that is a part of maturation. they plateau and have more steady lower levels starting at 23. younger than that they are not stable there are much more pronounced spikes in test during the day. this is proven. now does that mean roids will hurt you more? perhaps not. but the truth is no one really knows what roids do on a long term basis especially on a underdeveloped endocrine system. is that a risk you are williing to take? if so go for it. but don't knock johnnyB and the older guys. they arent trying to piss you off. They are just looking out for you just in case so you don't turn out to be that 25 year old with test levels of an 80 year old.

[Jsik98]

I love it when people claim to be in some Ivy League university, or say they are in law school or med school and their grammar and spelling is terrible! Please, you can get more credibility from proper grammer and articulation, than saying you're some super duper pre-med student with not one, but two parents as doctors! If you really are that dedicated to your education, then you should probably let it reflect on your writing; even though no one knows who you are!

[Jsik98]

But the truth is no one really knows what roids do on a long term basis especially on a underdeveloped endocrine system. is that a risk you are williing to take? if so go for it. but don't knock johnnyB and the older guys. they arent trying to piss you off. They are just looking out for you just in case so you don't turn out to be that 25 year old with test levels of an 80 year old.

Nice........very true.

[Youngbuckk]

this is mostly for jonnyb who seems to think if u are not 25 your hormone system is not fully developed. first off the developing of your hormone system occurs during puberty and only during puberty... most males go threw puberty between the ages of 14-17. so why is 25 a magic number???? just because you dont like seeing 18-24 year olds using juice doesnt mean that you need to fill them with a bunch of lies thats bull shit man and should not be on this forum since this forum is here to educate us with the facts and what is real, not the stupid bullshit that the mass media and people believe. i agree that test levels are the highest between 18-25 that they will ever be in your life, but that does not mean your hormone system is not fully developed!!! stop the lies. i first thought about juice when i was 18, i went to the doctor and got my plates checked and bloodwork. i had already fully developed heighth wise, and the bloodwork showed that i was producing the proper amount of test for someone with a DEVELOPED HORMONAL SYSTEM! with that out of the way i began reseraching and now at the age of 20 i have weighed the risks verse reward and decided to start my first cycle. i realize my test levels will never be the same but if i stayed at my natural test levels i would be stuck at the plateau i was experiencing forever. i had trained hard since the age of 15 and until i turned 20 i had continued to see results. is that not the reason why we use steroids? to give us a little help when the results stop coming.
all in all i would just appreciate it if you did not lie to the the minds of those who are still researching and contemplating the idea, even if you are disgusted with us using steroids, the fact is we are just as hormonally developed as you....

Its cool if you have some kind of newly found research that you want to bring to the board to maybe argue a point, but who the **** are you to come to this board and call a well respected member of the BB community a liar.

I dont know what you are trying to accomplish with this thread, but if you are trying to humiliate and belittle jhonny it aint happen bro.

[Slic4788]

this is mostly for jonnyb who seems to think if u are not 25 your hormone system is not fully developed. first off the developing of your hormone system occurs during puberty and only during puberty... most males go threw puberty between the ages of 14-17. so why is 25 a magic number???? just because you dont like seeing 18-24 year olds using juice doesnt mean that you need to fill them with a bunch of lies thats bull shit man and should not be on this forum since this forum is here to educate us with the facts and what is real, not the stupid bullshit that the mass media and people believe. i agree that test levels are the highest between 18-25 that they will ever be in your life, but that does not mean your hormone system is not fully developed!!! stop the lies. i first thought about juice when i was 18, i went to the doctor and got my plates checked and bloodwork. i had already fully developed heighth wise, and the bloodwork showed that i was producing the proper amount of test for someone with a DEVELOPED HORMONAL SYSTEM! with that out of the way i began reseraching and now at the age of 20 i have weighed the risks verse reward and decided to start my first cycle. i realize my test levels will never be the same but if i stayed at my natural test levels i would be stuck at the plateau i was experiencing forever. i had trained hard since the age of 15 and until i turned 20 i had continued to see results. is that not the reason why we use steroids? to give us a little help when the results stop coming.
all in all i would just appreciate it if you did not lie to the the minds of those who are still researching and contemplating the idea, even if you are disgusted with us using steroids, the fact is we are just as hormonally developed as you....

Oh my...

JohnnyB also says that at this age people aren't mentally developed either.

You're living proof of that.

[Tedbear981]

Bashing Johhny B, thats not right, he has answered a lot of questions on this forum! If you have a point to bring up, dont flame a mod to do it!

[dragon69]

Sounds like someone wants to be banned calling people liars and all.
I agree with the experienced people here that Jonny B has helped many on here and has everyones best interest in mind. He's also right, just for the wrong reasons.

It isn't that the hormonal system isn't fully developed so much as it is your growth hasn't fully stopped (in width not height). So up untill about 25-26 you grow in width and really 'fill out'.
There is still so much super high levels of steriod hormones circulating naturally in a body under say, 26 that it would be absolutely retarded to screw that up.
Besides, it would only really be replacing what is already super high. Waiting for them to fall is a smarter idea. Like someone said already, levels of an 80yr old in a 25yr old body. Not a good plan.
I, for those interested AM in medical practise. I can tell you for certain that using under 25-26 is a stupid idea, one you will certainly regret later. Another thing is that when guys are like 18-20 they're usually very careless, immature and do really stupid things. They're already a little crazy from the insane hormone levels they have naturally......now add AAS. People are gonna get hurt, stabbed, maimed, etc. Not a good plan.
So there are many good reasons to not use if under 25. Listen to the experienced guys here, they're trying to protect all the young, thick-skulled guys here.

[GetHugeDieTrying]

bottom line i have alot of 18, 17 yearold buddies who are huge no side effects, but emotional anger or stress. @25 ill have a family to look after, not inject myself and being pouring money into aas, you guys can get big off a cyc or 2, doesnt have to be ur whole life, and most people aint gonna wait till there 25, cuz shit, theres no PROOVEN STUDIES on steriods yet, so untill then, keep givener.

[GetHugeDieTrying]

there are alot of immature people, immature people usually cant get their hands on aas. Then there are abusers. ne ways, dont judge us all mang! There some of us young guns with more integrity then half the elders out there.

[GetHugeDieTrying]

in your opinion you think people under 26 shouldnt do aas...... u cannot make anything certain u are not a doctor with a 50 year study on ass, and how it effect the human body. everyone different, let em roll with it if they like to.

[arnold_of_malta]

listen i took 3 cycle when i was 17 yrs old 7 weeks each cycle and now i switche back to nuteral because i couldstill grow nuterally i think??? but you think i messed my natural test now or not?????

[bignatt]

Most Definetley......I am officially anabolic

[anabolicbruce]

also do u honestly think that arnold, columbu, priest, and the countless others didnt start juicing until after the age of 25? cus they dont seem to be ****ed up to me, and i know for a fact arnold juiced b4 he was 19 and priest when he was 16!!! now where are your examples?? o yea thas right just like all the other bullshit that surrounds steroids you dont have anything to prove your theory with hahahaaha
P.S. I DO NOT SUPPORT THE USE OF STEROIDS B4 THE AGE OF 18 OR B4 HAVING A FULLY DEVELOPED HORMONAL SYSTEM!!!! and i am also currently on a pre med path at cal poly, a highly renouned university, and have a mother and a father who are both very successful doctors..

Who cares if your a pre-med student, I know plenty of M.D.s who are idiots!! But since we are stating credetials; I work at an HRT clinic and have an extensive medical background(N.D.), and I can't even begin to tell you how many 20 year olds who I consult have screwed up there entire endocrine system by starting AAS too young. On the other hand I also have guys who have used for years and are o.k.(although not great). everybody is different and responds differently to AAS. But I believe most of us fail to look to the future when it comes to our health. Abusing AAS, and starting too young WILL shorten your lifespan, everything must be done with responsibility, and I think this is what Jonny B is trying to get across.

[stupidhippo]

right on Bruce

[Mesomorphyl]

Who cares if your a pre-med student, I know plenty of M.D.s who are idiots!! But since we are stating credetials; I work at an HRT clinic and have an extensive medical background(N.D.), and I can't even begin to tell you how many 20 year olds who I consult have screwed up there entire endocrine system by starting AAS too young. On the other hand I also have guys who have used for years and are o.k.(although not great). everybody is different and responds differently to AAS. But I believe most of us fail to look to the future when it comes to our health. Abusing AAS, and starting too young WILL shorten your lifespan, everything must be done with responsibility, and I think this is what Jonny B is trying to get across.

True... Also I have seen studies where you start declining test levels at about 24... That does not mean your endocrine system is not fully developed, just that it would be a good chance your body has developed by that particular age.

[anabolicbruce]

Unfortunatly there are not many studies done on the long term effects of AAS, and there is no set age in which we should start using AAS, but its better to be safe than sorry. He uses Arnold as an example, so I will too: Arnold may have used AAS at 19yrs old, but not many people know that he goes on dialysis every few months and has had multiple heart surgeries. Could this be from AAS? who knows, but it could be. Personally, I wish I waited until I was 25yrs old at least. Too many of my friends simply live their life cycle to cycle, and they all are aging much faster than me!

[leansauce]

first off doctors have some off the worst grammar out there, second off the only proven reason why you shouldnt use AAS at too young of an age is because it may result in your body not being able to carry out the functions it is supposed to hormonally. with that stated, if your body is already carrying out all if the functions its supposed to hormonally, ( NO ONE IS TALKING ABOUT TEST LEVELS ) such as producing test, producing semen, and so on then there is no differenence in dangerous side effects between any body who has gone threw puberty doesnt matter if your 18 or 45, yes i know it will mess around with your test levels, but that is not the point the point is dangerous side effects, no matter how old you are AAS is going to mess around with your test levels. show me some studies you guys cant prove anything its great you just all bunch together with your opinion against young BB's and try and turn it into fact. obviously even the higher amount of test we are naturally produding then you isnt enough for us and either of us is going to come off our cycle with a lowered test count. im done proving this point i dont think you want to see the truth, and why is it that you think seniority makes you more knowlegdeable? do you personally know jonnyb? cus i know for a fact he does answer your questions helpfully but its all straight from a post he read by Hooker to find that answer. and for you saying im not mentally developed, do you really think you portraying a lie to the future of your peers proves that you are mentally developed? its obvious everyone of you has some sort of motive to support this, wether you hate young BB's or are just mad now that you yourself didnt start earlier, you all need to get over it that is the point of this post, too bad that will never happen

[Mesomorphyl]

its obvious everyone of you has some sort of motive to support this, wether you hate young BB's or are just mad now that you yourself didnt start earlier, you all need to get over it that is the point of this post, too bad that will never happen

You are right Please by all means use as much as you want... I also believe the only reason why they tell people to use AI(arimidex, femera) or SERM(nolvadex) is just to get money because doctors dont know shit... Again do a deca only and to get the real benifits like us bigger guys get is by using a gram at a time, yes and top it off with a gram of test... It is a conspiracy to hold you back(need a foil hat?)

[Swifto]

this is mostly for jonnyb who seems to think if u are not 25 your hormone system is not fully developed. first off the developing of your hormone system occurs during puberty and only during puberty... most males go threw puberty between the ages of 14-17. so why is 25 a magic number???? just because you dont like seeing 18-24 year olds using juice doesnt mean that you need to fill them with a bunch of lies thats bull shit man and should not be on this forum since this forum is here to educate us with the facts and what is real, not the stupid bullshit that the mass media and people believe. i agree that test levels are the highest between 18-25 that they will ever be in your life, but that does not mean your hormone system is not fully developed!!! stop the lies. i first thought about juice when i was 18, i went to the doctor and got my plates checked and bloodwork. i had already fully developed heighth wise, and the bloodwork showed that i was producing the proper amount of test for someone with a DEVELOPED HORMONAL SYSTEM! with that out of the way i began reseraching and now at the age of 20 i have weighed the risks verse reward and decided to start my first cycle. i realize my test levels will never be the same but if i stayed at my natural test levels i would be stuck at the plateau i was experiencing forever. i had trained hard since the age of 15 and until i turned 20 i had continued to see results. is that not the reason why we use steroids? to give us a little help when the results stop coming.
all in all i would just appreciate it if you did not lie to the the minds of those who are still researching and contemplating the idea, even if you are disgusted with us using steroids, the fact is we are just as hormonally developed as you....

I'm sure JohhnyB's post has helped many first time user's get a feel of how AS work and their various effects on one's body. It is a guide. And, a helpful one at that IMHO.

So why dont you post us all up a guide for first time user's including facts, and references to studies, as your so critical of his? If your so concerned about JohhnyB giving out wrong or incorrect information I'm sure you will oblige.

[leansauce]

thats the problem right there his guide lacks facts and references to studies if i myself were to try and make a post such as his i would not just have gone off of the general consensus on this website... i would have looked outside for facts or sumthing to back up my beliefs, its all just his opinion IMO and yea lemme shoot a gram of test a day u dumbass, see the posts that tell you how much of a substance to take that are written usual be Hooker do include medical studies that show how much of each substance caused what kind of an effect, please stay out of the post mesomorph, your anecdote is not suitable for this thread, you are totally in the wrong here

[leansauce]

You are right Please by all means use as much as you want... I also believe the only reason why they tell people to use AI(arimidex, femera) or SERM(nolvadex) is just to get money because doctors dont know shit... Again do a deca only and to get the real benifits like us bigger guys get is by using a gram at a time, yes and top it off with a gram of test... It is a conspiracy to hold you back(need a foil hat?)

o and mesomorph i love how you didnt even reply corresponding to the topic of the thread but instead just took one statement that i said from a post and tried to prove your point off of that. good job do u think if u prove an off topic point it will also prove the actual matter at hand?
i dont think it does, but maybe your right about it you are just trying to help us but all of you older BB's are starting to turn into the media trying to impose your unbacked up theorys of bodybuilding onto still developing minds...
( and by theory's i mean the medias definition of a theory, not a scientific definition of a theory )

[Mesomorphyl]

o and mesomorph i love how you didnt even reply corresponding to the topic of the thread but instead just took one statement that i said from a post and tried to prove your point off of that. good job do u think if u prove an off topic point it will also prove the actual matter at hand?
i dont think it does, but maybe your right about it you are just trying to help us but all of you older BB's are starting to turn into the media trying to impose your unbacked up theorys of bodybuilding onto still developing minds...
( and by theory's i mean the medias definition of a theory, not a scientific definition of a theory )

You should seek out MindOfRoss... He is cutting edge on young steroid users.

[leansauce]

you really are a smart ass member, u guys love bringing up that Ross guy whenever you dont have anything else to back up your side of the argument dont u

[anabolicbruce]

first off doctors have some off the worst grammar out there, second off the only proven reason why you shouldnt use AAS at too young of an age is because it may result in your body not being able to carry out the functions it is supposed to hormonally. with that stated, if your body is already carrying out all if the functions its supposed to hormonally, ( NO ONE IS TALKING ABOUT TEST LEVELS ) such as producing test, producing semen, and so on then there is no differenence in dangerous side effects between any body who has gone threw puberty doesnt matter if your 18 or 45, yes i know it will mess around with your test levels, but that is not the point the point is dangerous side effects, no matter how old you are AAS is going to mess around with your test levels. show me some studies you guys cant prove anything its great you just all bunch together with your opinion against young BB's and try and turn it into fact. obviously even the higher amount of test we are naturally produding then you isnt enough for us and either of us is going to come off our cycle with a lowered test count. im done proving this point i dont think you want to see the truth, and why is it that you think seniority makes you more knowlegdeable? do you personally know jonnyb? cus i know for a fact he does answer your questions helpfully but its all straight from a post he read by Hooker to find that answer. and for you saying im not mentally developed, do you really think you portraying a lie to the future of your peers proves that you are mentally developed? its obvious everyone of you has some sort of motive to support this, wether you hate young BB's or are just mad now that you yourself didnt start earlier, you all need to get over it that is the point of this post, too bad that will never happen

first of all, how could I hate young BBs when, in fact, I am one myself. My scientific proof is in my job. There are many other physiological factors which come into play besides simply Testosterone levels. All neurotransmitters are regulated by hormones, along with the metabolism and absorption of amino acids-which are responsible for every bodily function. Since, on average, a male does not stop growing until around age 25, it would make perfect sense not to mess with anything until this process is done. Most of us here have taken the plunge before 25 (including myself), and a great percentage may wish they had waited(including myself). Only you know your own body, and only you can be the master of it-do what you wish. It dosnt mean everybody should take AAS in their early 20s.

And if you are as brainless in your AAS usage as you seem in your posts, I might be seeing you in a few years here at my clinic, treating your hypogonadism, onset depression (neurotransmitter imbalance), and low sperm count.

[Rufus]

I think wot Johnny B is getting at is the fact that the male hormonal system starts decreasing from 25 onwards. The only thing i'm going to say is that its your body do wot you want with it, you've heard the advice you can listen or not. But don't come running on here IF you ever have problems.

[WelshWarrior]

My 2c is that Leansauce is a petulant little shit.

[Mesomorphyl]

you really are a smart ass member, u guys love bringing up that Ross guy whenever you dont have anything else to back up your side of the argument dont u

Wow, 35 posts and only here since less than a month and someone has already talked about ross to you? That should give you a clue. Or have you been here before and banned? Maybe you are ross. It is just very curious.