A call for help, How do you deal with Valley effect while on Testosterone.

[androplex]

This is not funny anymore.

I am injecting testosterone weekly. I am going into week 6. About the 5th day I start to crash. I know I could inject every 5 days but I have to get my doc to approve this. He will not approve until my blood work which is scheduled for 5/6/02 comes back. I am really having a rough time on day 6 and 7.

Any help on how I can deal with the valley effect?

Please no jokes on this. I am in deep shit with this and need help!

I plan on talking about with my doctor but for the next three days I could use some ideas to just get through it. I dont know why this week is worse than the past. I have been feeling so much better lately WTF.

BTW if you see a post that you started and I tried to delete it I was just trying to delete my post in your thread. I have said some pretty sappy things due to my valley's and I just wanted to get ride of my post because when I go back and read them I sound like I sound now.

STUIPID, CRYING, SELF CENTERED, Body looks like crap, SHIT HEAD, LAZY, NOT GOOD FOR NOTHING, ASS HOLE, Can't get it up, BUTT HEAD.... Did I leave anything out?
uggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!! !

BTW I am at work and dont have my cell phone. I am leaving for home now and sure as hell hope I dont stop off at the local bar and get shit faced.

[Canes4Ever]

Originally posted by androplex
This is not funny anymore.

I am injecting testosterone weekly. I am going into week 6. About the 5th day I start to crash. I know I could inject every 5 days but I have to get my doc to approve this. He will not approve until my blood work which is scheduled for 5/6/02 comes back. I am really having a rough time on day 6 and 7.

Any help on how I can deal with the valley effect?

Please no jokes on this. I am in deep shit with this and need help!

I plan on talking about with my doctor but for the next three days I could use some ideas to just get through it. I dont know why this week is worse than the past. I have been feeling so much better lately WTF.

BTW if you see a post that you started and I tried to delete it I was just trying to delete my post in your thread. I have said some pretty sappy things due to my valley's and I just wanted to get ride of my post because when I go back and read them I sound like I sound now.

STUIPID, CRYING, SELF CENTERED, Body looks like crap, SHIT HEAD, LAZY, NOT GOOD FOR NOTHING, ASS HOLE, Can't get it up, BUTT HEAD.... Did I leave anything out?
uggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!! !

BTW I am at work and dont have my cell phone. I am leaving for home now and sure as hell hope I dont stop off at the local bar and get shit faced.

No joke buddy, you're a cool brother, and you know I like ya. You can and will get through this. You are having a bad time right now, but better times are on their way.

Take care brother, and give me a call you have my numbers if you need to chat.

[TNT]

Originally posted by androplex
Please no jokes on this. I am in deep shit with this and need help!...
STUIPID, CRYING, SELF CENTERED, Body looks like crap, SHIT HEAD, LAZY, NOT GOOD FOR NOTHING, ASS HOLE, Can't get it up, BUTT HEAD.... Did I leave anything out?
uggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!! !

Well, if you're in deep shit, all I can suggest is that you don't inject it. As for your descriptions, no, you haven't left anything out except whiner.

(Side note for our other readers: I know Androplex, and a joke is exactly what he needs. So here's the serious answer...)

I'm not revealing any confidences here, because Androplex noted that he is about to have labs done, and has discussed the medical nature of his AS routine on the board.

The idea, of course, is to have labs taken when you are at your lowest point, since you don't want to show high readings (which might make the doctor reduce your dose).

However, if you're at the point where you physically feel the valley effects, you are already low enough in your readings to get the lab work done. Since today is Friday, call the doctor to see if you can have the labs done today; get the lab work done, then do an injection. But try to resist the temptation of injecting before the labs are drawn, since they will zonk the readings up too high (into peak range).

If youy are unable to do this, try some caffeine - not coffee, but an over-the-counter product like Vivarin or No-Doz to boost your energy levels over the weekend. And know that you will get through it. It's what you have been working up to - the first labs since you started doing test and HGH - so it's important that they accurately reflect your goals which, in this case, are a low reading.

The obvious way to deal with the valley effect, especially when it it is that intense, is to increase your dosage or move up your injection schedule. My take is that the doctor will do either or both of these - and if he doesn't, I would certainly move toward a 5-day schedule, but do it after the labs are drawn. (The problem is that, if you do it before getting the labs done, it will skew the picture and could influence your physicians to make the wrong decision - they need to know empirically that you are actually low.) After this time, you shouldn't have to go through this again.

Finally (and I say this constructively), stop acting like a walking billboard for biggerexia (the notion that you look like shit regardless of how great you're doing). You're 6'2" and 207 pounds with 16" biceps alone - that's as good as it gets. "Body looks like crap," indeed - lots of guys would give their right nut for stats like that.

And next time you're feeling this crappy, call me for a bitching session. It helps to dump at a time like this.

[androplex]

This will be short...

I tried to move my blood draw to today but no luck.

Sorry for being a whiner.

Will just suck it up and take it like a man.

Nights are my rough times.

BTW if you read this post and are thinking about doing test dont let my situation scare you off. I have a diagnosis of 257.2 and 253.3. So please dont let my problems become yours. Listen to the experience here on the board. Their are some really giving and caring members here.

[OT8268]

What is the Valley Effect?

[TNT]

Originally posted by OT8268
What is the Valley Effect?

Simple: testosterone works by way of a peak-and-valley effect. Its effects in the body peak at 1-2 days, then ebb over the next 7-14 days (depending on the type of test). Some people feel fatigued at the valley stage (technically called the "trough" stage, as in an empty horse's trough in which the water level is low), but pick up again after the next injection.

[OT8268]

And this causes some people to become very depressed and have body issues even while on a cycle?

If so, damn, I didnt plan on using test anyway but this is another reason

[TNT]

Originally posted by OT8268
And this causes some people to become very depressed and have body issues even while on a cycle?

Not commonly. You have to remember that Androplex started on test for medical reasons, having experienced a form of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome that was common to soldiers who served in Operation Desert Storm. (He has discussed this in earlier threads on the board.)

Normally, the only side effect of test is that you may feel a little tired and less horny at your valley phase. As you may be aware, it can also cause some acne, and possibly gyno symptoms if you are predisposed to gyno. When ending a cycle, you may not be as horny as normal for a few weeks, but a lot of guys circumvent this with Clomid. In theory, it could cause depression, but that's only if you are predisposed to clinical depression or another psychological disorder.

In fact, test is probably the best of the anabolic steroids and has the least amount of side effects - that's why it's considered the "building block" of most AS cycles. As always, everyone is different, and any side effects may also be based on the specific cycle. Unlike Androplex, who is currently on a low dose once a week, most guys who cycle do large doses and hit their injections twice a week. (Most guys who do test for medical reasons do it on a seven-day schedule without these side effects at all, but most guys who do it medically take test for hypogonadism, andropause, or delayed puberty, not for this variant of CFS.) The reason for the twice-weekly injections on a cycle, if you take a large amount of test, is precisely so you don't have these types of side effects - it evens out the peak-and-valley issue for a more consistent overall effect.
________________________

(By the way, it's my policy not to discuss anything on the board that I learn in PM's or by e-mail. Androplex has been quite open about discussing his case on the board himself, and his experiences have been a tremendous help to several of the guys on the Over 30 forum.)

[androplex]

Damn it. I did not mean for others to read my problems and then get turned off of using testosterone. I just feel like crying my guts out. Thanks TNT for your post on this. If you ever have done pot and know how things feel, well then you know what I am going through right now. Everything takes twice as long to make sense out of and your mind is not attached to your body. Everything is amplified too. I feel like a damn case study with a drug problem. No one is going to respect me or my post ever again on AR. SHIT!!!!!!!

[Iron horse]

androplex

take it easy bro (easier said then done)
maybe kick your feet up tonight watch a funny movie? just try to take your mind off things, and even though you feel like total shit that its not actualy the end of the world.

no one will loose respect for you because you have a problem at the moment!! dont worry

[androplex]

Ok AR board, here it comes.....

I just told a member in a PM what is really going on here.

SHIT this is hard to say.....

This is my first experience with test (any steriod for that matter). 6 weeks ago I started using 100 mg per week. Well two weeks ago I did three times the amount that was in my script. I felt so good with the first 100mg the next day I did another 100mg. Two days latter I was like an animal in the GYM, my God I was pushing more weight than I had ever done. Several friends came up to me and said they had really notice how big I was getting. That made me do another 100mg. So that made 300 mg in one week. So I am not just dealing with a normal valley here. I really screwed up. What a dick I am.

I am admitting this (shit this is hard) because I want others to now how easy it is to keep uping the amount of testosterone and how fast one can get into trouble with this stuff.

I am glad I am doing this with a doctor's care because I can see myself abusing this. What a fuckin shit head I am.

Ok, now you all know I have a problem. I am a fuckin testosterone junky. At least I did not abuse my hGH.

Shit. I cannot believe I just admitted this to everyone.

I just felt so much better and each additional injection even made me feel better.

[Iron horse]

Bro, we don't think your an ass at all. what you did was very human and I would have done the same in that position I imagine.

many people take a lot more test than that a week anyway, so don't worry to much about being a test junky. get the lab to test you then get your doctor to up the injection frequency a bit.

[TNT]

Androplex, you putz, I'll get to you in a minute. Let me talk to everyone else first...

What Androplex has described is not unusual at all - it affects many juicers, whether they are doing it on their own or under a doctor's care. It is, quite simply, a tendency to do too much of a good thing. You begin using test, or any other AS, and find that the results are grrrrrrreat! So you increase the dose and end up doing too much, then when your cycle ends or you run of gear, you crash big time.

It can never be said too often: the absolute toughest thing to practice is patience. You want to make gains and you see that AS have helped you start to reach those goals, so you push the edges of the envelope and bump up the doses prematurely, shooting your levels sky high and guaranteeing a crash when you come off. The effect is similar to doing speed - first you soar, then you crash and sleep for the next three days. The right idea, when you're doing anabolics, is not to soar in the first place - it's to take off steady, get up to good cruising altitude, and come down with a nice, soft landing.

The same thing occurs when many people cycle - same as Androplex, but they do it at higher dosages. And yes, the crash is that much harder. Remember, Androplex did only 300 mg. in a single week; a lot of guys do 500 or more mg. per week. And the faster you soar, the harder you will crash. It won't happen to everyone (remember, Androplex is also dealing with the CFS issue), but it will happen to many people.

Incidentally, I did exactly the same thing Androplex did - took a prescribed dose and increased it because it did so much good. Then I hit the lab one day and my total test reading was 1,487 - way above the high point of the normal range. I learned my lesson well from that one.

Now, a word to Androplex which it won't hurt others to read as well...

There's an old biblical expression, "As a man thinks in is heart, so is he." If you think of yourself as a failure, a loser, a shit, a dick, or (going back to the first post in this thread) a "STUIPID, CRYING, SELF CENTERED, Body looks like crap, SHIT HEAD, LAZY, NOT GOOD FOR NOTHING, ASS HOLE, Can't get it up, BUTT HEAD," you'll end up as one.

The first step to being a winner is to think like a winner. I'm not particularly into a religious rap, but as the preachers at those mega-churches in Houston (home of, among others, Androplex) would say, "Believe that you will receive it, and you will have it." It's name it and claim it all the way, bro.

You want to lift more weight? Start by believing you can do it. You want to look better? Then act like you already look better. You want to feel better about yourself? Ditto.

There's one thing that some of guys on this board say a lot, especially when they post their pictures: "Okay, flame away." Notwithstanding that here at A.R. we don't flame, that's an expression I should never have to read. Because if you ask for flames, you just might get them. But if you have the self-assurance to accept that you are already making progress to getting where you want to go, you will get there.

That doesn't mean that you have to be an egotist. When I am complimented on the board, I usually don't reply (although I am grateful for the compliments - thanks, folks), because the only swelled head I want to get is the one that is not on my shoulders.

But if you think down, you'll feel down. Androplex, my friend (a term I do not use lightly), it's time to start thinking up.

[bronzebeefcake]

TNT I always show up late after youve posted and then Im speechless....Heres a question for you...How much test should be run in a cycle....

A question for andro....When did you start bashing yourself like this?????before or after the juice????Its definatly unhealthy...

[TNT]

Originally posted by bronzebeefcake
Heres a question for you...How much test should be run in a cycle....

Here's the whole point about everyone having their own individual needs: regardless of the drug, it depends on the person and his or her goals and objectvies.

In other words, there is no one correct answer to how much test should be run in a cycle. There will always be variables that include age, height, weight (including height-weight ratio), underlying medical conditions, and the specific goals of the cycle.

Therefore, a 100 mg. per week dose may be appropriate for some people, while for others it might be 200, 300, or 400 mg. per week. In my opinion - and I realize there is diversity on this - a 500 mg. cycle is rarely appropriate, and a 1,000 mg. cycle is never appropriate. Again, you can get too much of a good thing, whether it's protein or test.

Likewise, there is a diversity of opinion on how long to run a cycle: 8, 10, 12, or 15 weeks, for example. That is sometimes a matter of preference, and other times it fits into the goal picture.

So I wish I could give you an easy answer, but there isn't one. It all depends on you.

[ROOKIE22]

INCREADABLE. Extreamly well said TNT.

Androplex, Humans have always and will continue to do whatever it takes to make them feel better. You made a error but it is not the end of the world. You are not an ass, just human.
All you have to use is your will and head to get through this. It is not going to be easy but anything can be done. It is obvious that you have friends here so take them up on their offer to talk. Talking can make any tough time seem a whole lot easier.
That offer goes for me too. If you need to just shoot the shit PM me..

Thanks for serving...

good luck

[goldenFloyd]

TNT, androplex, this thread is great and full of useful information. Just a quick question for TNT - have you ever run vet quality test and is the human grade that much "better"?

good luck andro, you're cool in my book. keep liftin. maybe take some 5-HTP and vitamin B?

[G-PIG]

you can do it! (taken from the water boy!) come on andro, i've been there, it sucks i know, but your good shit, youll be fine, good luck on the draw!

[TNT]

Originally posted by goldenFloyd
Just a quick question for TNT - have you ever run vet quality test and is the human grade that much "better"?

Good question, goldenFloyd. To be honest with you, I've never tried vet-quality test or any other vet drug. I've been lucky enough to be able to get the real U-S-of-A primo Grade-A choice stuff [meaning Delatestryl (enanthate) and Depo-Testosterone (cyp)], so I"ve never had to rely on vet gear.

But in principle, I would also place more confidence in legal, human grade gear made in the U.S. because it has met the stringent standards of the U.S. Food & Drug Administration. The F.D.A. regulates both manufacturers and specific drugs, and both the research, manufacturing, and packaging standards in the States are top-notch. Ditto Canada, which has similar standards to the U.S.

I would imagine that the better veterinary manufacturers do produce drugs under clinical lab conditions, especially when those drugs go into some very expensive thorobred animals, for lack of a better term. (It's no coincidence that EQ, or equipoise, has the same root as equine, meaning related to horses.) I cannot say the same for Mexican products, since so much AS product coming out of Mexico tends to be produced in underground labs and independent farmacias.

But given a choice between vet gear and legally produced human gear, I'll go with the latter every time.

[Canes4Ever]

Originally posted by TNT
But given a choice between vet gear and legally produced human gear, I'll go with the latter every time.

Tnt and I have talked about this several times lately and he has suggested the same thing to me. I agree 100% with him. It's just being on the side of safety. It makes me feel a lot better about trying to do gear.

[androplex]

I just could not stop from posting this. I have told myself I am going to make it till Monday 6:00pm before I inject again. Man I never thought it would be this hard.

Anyway, I just wanted to say that my sister has horses that she takes to shows and all one gets steroid shots. That horse is an animal, when its on that stuff. Oh wait it is an animal. heee heee heeee. From what I have seen that vet stuff is pretty good but I dont think I would use it. Damn now you all have me thinking about this vet gear. SHIT. Its just to damn accessable to me at my sister's place. Lets see when will I use up my depo..........wait a minute here what am I thinking?

[Canes4Ever]

Originally posted by androplex
I just could not stop from posting this. I have told myself I am going to make it till Monday 6:00pm before I inject again. Man I never thought it would be this hard.

Anyway, I just wanted to say that my sister has horses that she takes to shows and all one gets steroid shots. That horse is an animal, when its on that stuff. Oh wait it is an animal. heee heee heeee. From what I have seen that vet stuff is pretty good but I dont think I would use it. Damn now you all have me thinking about this vet gear. SHIT. Its just to damn accessable to me at my sister's place. Lets see when will I use up my depo..........wait a minute here what am I thinking?

you are a scream sometimes Andro, I love you brother

[Canes4Ever]

bump for an answer to Bob Dylans question

[ragin']

this thread needs to go in the classics. it truly displays why this board is superior to others and should reflect as an example. brothers just being there for brothers and problems being addressed head on w/ assistance from friends.

androplex, hang in there, bro... you'll get through it..no matter what. you wont allow yourself to fail. get yourself right and learn from your experience.. you know what to do.

peace,
ragin'

[TNT]

Originally posted by Bob Dylan
In the continuing theme of test crash...TNT, Androplex: an opinion please:
I have no MD to talk to (remember the online consult, after blood test) and was given 200 mg in 1ml injection, 1 per week, 12 weeks, with HCG to follow, and then back on the test Cyp. To avoid the crash described, would you two consider dividing the injection up to 1/2 ml (100 mg) and take it twice per week, to avoid valley and peak?
Thanks, Rob

First, Rob, I have to confess that I am not a fan of HGH. It's not that I'm against it; rather, I just don't know enough about it. Yet.

One of the things I found today is that the American Association of Clinical Endocrinologists publishes guidelines on HGH use by both adults and children. Also, if you have never read them or missed some of the earlier posts in which I mentioned AACE, they have an outstanding set of guidelines on medical testosterone use; it can be found in their paper on hypogonadism. The AACE website is linked here, and is well worth it - these are the guidelines that physicians themselves use, and will make you more clinically literate than anything else out there.

Having acknowledged my limited knowledge thus far, let's use my friend Androplex as an example. (As usual, I will base what I say solely on what he has written in posts on the open board.) Androplex is doing both test and HGH, both of which were prescribed through Cenegenics, a prominent anti-aging clinic. When he first started on testosterone by itself, he wrote a few days later that he felt a hundred times better and more energetic. In other words, it took a few days to kick in, but test did the trick by itself. He did not start HGH until a couple of weeks later.

My opinion. pending my doing more reading about HGH, is that the anti-aging clinics tend to prescribe HGH in large part because it is such a ridiculously expensive drug - one that is generally not covered by prescription plans, and one for which clinics refer patients to compounding pharmacies (pharmacies that mix their own drugs) with which they are associated. (In fact, the anti-aging clinics' treatment and consultations also tend not to be covered by health insurance.)

Medically, I take a minimalist approach. Namely, if it ain't broke or it's not about to break, don't fix it. Test does so well on its own, that unless you need HGH, why bother?

Ooooooops! Scrolling up, I just noticed that you refer to HCG, not HGH. But I'm going to leave the text that I already typed, since it is relevant to a lot of people.

(About HGC, I know squat. That's second on my reading list.)

As to your test question, interesting . . . Most physicians prescribe 200 mg. every two or three weeks to start, then titrate (taper) up or town as appropriate. Your doctor has prescribed 200 mg. per week, which is a large initial medical dose.

Androplex has discussed his experience in this tragically amusing thread. But that's an unusual case - my take is that his dose will be increased. but he has been waiting until he has lab work done (which will hopefully be low enough to jusytify the increase).

I've never had blatant fatugue after a week, although you can certainly feel test tapering off. Since you will be doing 200 mg. per week (which should give you additional advantages from an anabolic perspective), I see no reason that you cannot split the shot into two 100 mg. shots every three-and-a-half days. Not only will this even out the peak-and-valley effect, it will result in smaller shots (1/2 cc versus 1 cc) that will make the injections less uncomfortable (especially if doing quad shots). Needless to say, make sure you have enough syringes/needles to do twice-weekly shots.

[androplex]

TNT, I have already read many times the AACE guidelines on hGH and test. They are a very good read. I have made ref to them in some of my posts here at AR. Thanks for posting the website for others.


I was talking with one of my friends at the gym, an MD, yes he works out too. I asked him to give me his perspective on me taking test and hGH. He said in a nut shell that their are risk in everything we do. BTW he claims not to be taking any gear, I believe him. Continue, and that since I am taking hGH and Test in part to help my modeling career then its justification on my part. He also said that if someone takes a few drinks and it makes their life better then do it. We cannot live in a closet. He did recommend that if dont see gains from taking it get off of it or at least tapper it off.

He also said that everyone is different and reacts to gear differently in terms of the dosage amounts and how it affects the body. It is a very individual thing when in comes to taking gear for use in body building.

He did warn that once one gets their endo system thrown off it takes a lot to get it back in line. One person could take a small amount of test and get good gains while another would need a lot. Also one could take a little and mess themself up and another could take a little and make great gains.

Life is like rolling the dice he said, we each need to look at what our goals are. I dont think he meant to say go out and smoke pot and do drugs etc. or take something or do something that is known to be harmful. If you have cancer and smoking pot is going to make your quality of life better smoke it. But if your just smoking to get high thats the wrong reason.

Ok I will shut up. I dont know if my post are helpful or not.

BTW I stopped eating at midnight today. My blood work is scheduled for 5:00 pm today. I will be so glad when its over. Thanks again for all the support. It has meant so much to me over the last few days. I am very tired and grumpy. I also did not do a spell check on this post either.

[El Kabong]

Andro, TNT, I cannot thank you enough for posting this exchange. I am prone to anxiety and depression, so I need to be very careful about the Valley problem. Andro, I'm sorry you feel bad and I hope it gets better soon. But you've provided some invaluable information for the rest of us.

Peace.

[LDSlifter]

In many ways...andro...i've been there done that. While I've never hit the cyp above what the doctor prescribed...I can totally relate to what happens when you aren't getting enough...and you crash. I can understand how easily it is to over do it with the Test, because when you're low...all hell breaks loose....and you do everything and anything you can to keep from feeling this way.

I use to be on injections and had to switch docs. Anyways...my new doc does not believe in injections but prefers to prescribe androgel. That stuff sucks...i'm up to 15mg per day and still can't get my blood level where it needs to be.

I prefer the injections to any other form of treatment once you get the dosing correct and the scheduling. It took me about 6 months on shots to get the correct amount and timing to the point that I did feel fairly normal with no peaks and valleys. Now...like yourself, when I get low I sorta lounge around in a fog. My brain quits thinking clearly and I become withdrawn. I call it being in a "cave" and it of course brings about anger...and depression. Anger and depression are sometimes hard to spot by ourselves, and it takes a friend or two to point it out.

Well...the one thing my current doc did that I got to give him some credit for, is put my sorry butt on welbutrin. Psych drugs scare the hell out of me, but he kept insisting that I was only being half treated with T therapy. So i've been on the wellbutrin for about 2 months now and I have to say it really has done great things for me. I'm much happier and more like my old self...less bitchy, more light hearted, more positive...even while my T levels suck. My wife and friends say i'm a new person and less of a butthead! So since the jury is in...i'll keep with it.

So...hang in there my friend. I'm still trying to get my T levels up, got bleed this morning. I'm hoping I can get back on shots with my current doc perhaps in combination with some gel...to level things out. We'll see...but I'd seriously check out the wellbutrin. For an HRT patient, it sure seems to make a difference for me. And on a positive note...wellbutrin does not have any sexual side effects...nuttin but wood!

Anyways...keep you head up! Things will improve!

LDSlifter

"Have you checked your "females" today?"

[Methuselah]

I had the same problem. PM me Andro.

[El Kabong]

LDS, how long did it take for the wellbutrin to work ? I just started and I'm still a bitch. When will it be safe for my Significant Other to approach :-) I've heard a month ...

[TNT]

He made it!

His Internet provider is down at the moment, but I just had a call from Androplex, and he asked me to pass on that he made it through the past few days.

He hit the doctor's office this afternoon, and said that he felt they tapped hiis veins to the max (drawing seven vials of blood for the lab work), then headed home and engaged in some "injectable therapy."

He'll be back as soon as his ISP is up.

[TNT]

To those of you who are taking Wellbutrin . . .

If you happen to smoke cigarettes, this is a good time to give them up with assistance. Wellbutrin is the same drug as Zyban, the smoking cessation drug - right down to the same dosages. (It's similar to the similarity betwen Propecia and Proscar, which are the same as each other. Propecia is used for hair loss and Proscar to retard an enlarged prostate, but unlike Wellbutrin, they are used in different dosages for each purpose.)

Incidentally, most health insurance plans will pay for Wellbutrin (an anti-depressant) but not for Zyban, so if any of you have considered trying Zyban for smoking cessation and you have a prescription plan, try getting the script written for Wellbutrin instead.

[solid90062]

Can you just narrow your injection schedule to help with the Valley crash?

[androplex]

Hi, my systems just came back up. My doctor is really a cool guy. I will tell you more about what he told me but for the short of it he said that the hgh was not causing my pain in the elbows. I was lifting to heavy of weight. Since being on test and hGH my muscle grew faster than my tendons and put strain on the tendons. Our admin and TNT told me this too and to be careful. They were correct. We need to listen to what these guys are saying they know what they are talking about, thats TNT and PTbyJason. I think someothers also told me this but I am so out of it now I cant remember.

I came home about 4 hours ago from the docs office and put some steak on the oven. I injected and then laid down and feel asleep. Well I just about didnt wake back up. I left that damn pan with the steak on the oven and the house was completly full of smoke. Their was a small fire on the oven from the steak and all. Needless to say I am still very tired from not having my test. Just injecting 2 hours ago it will take a few days to kick in. I cannot believe I am so stuipid. I almost died tonight with all that smoke and all due to the fire on the oven. I guess I really am tired.

Thank you all for being so supportive to me over the last few days.

Once the lab work is all in the docs are going to talk to me and I am pretty sure I will change my injections once every 5 days.

Oh, and btw my doctor is taking 6ius a week of hGH. Been doing it for about a year now (initial dosage was 6ius and then cut back). He told me the risk at the dosage I am taking is less than someone going out and drinking beer. But also said that he feels I am a person that can handle the hgh. As I said before it really up to each person and how their body responds to the hGh and test. He also said I will drop down to 8% or less bp fat over the next three months. Good news here.

I am pretty upset with myself falling asleep and leaving that pan on the oven and it causing a small fire in the kitchen and all this smoke. I was pretty damn lucky to wake up. Someone is looking over me because I sure have made some stuipid mistakes lately.

Thanks again everyone.

[Canes4Ever]

Just spent a couple hours chatting on the phone with Androplex and he is feeling much better.

Andro, you are a special guy. Remember that bro

[LDSlifter]

Elkabong:

It took about a month or so to notice a change in mood/demeanor. My wife noticed it the most as I began being the practical joker that I use to be...mostly with my kids...who unfortunately hadn't seen their "happy go lucky" father in quite some time. Needless to say...they are also much happier that Daddy is happy....and so is my wife!

So...stick with it...i'd say 30 to 45 days is a pretty good estimate of the amount of time it takes for the wellbutrin to kick in.

Good Luck!

LDSlifter

"Have you checked your "females" today?"

[LDSlifter]

Andro:

Good to hear you're doing better and with friends like TNT and Canes checking up on you...you're in good hands. It also sounds like you have a really good doctor..you are very lucky.

cya

LDSlifter

"Have you checked your "females" today?"