heart almost blew up

[P Rock]

i was on my last shot of my 16 week cycle; (deca 400 and test 600 week) when all of the sudden my heart started racing irregular beats. i waited a while to see if it would go away, very weird feeling in my upper chest, area. finally around 5 hours later, i decided to get checked out. i went to the ER and the doc told me i had a Atrial fib. at a rate of 165 bpm. they tried giving me meds through IV to get the heart rate down but it didnt work. they ended up cardioverting me (shock the heart back to normal). i never told the docs that i was juicing, they did all kinds of test and they said my heart was fine, but they didnt know why this happened. anyone ever get something like this before? scary shit.

[powerliftmike]

When I read heart almost blew up I couldn't help but laugh. I now see tho this is serious. Aside from orals messing up cholesterol and heavy water retention (mainly from estrogen, so it can be controlled) raising blood pressure some, I dont think AASs can effect the heart.

Other things like Clen can disrupt beats tho. Best of luck bro.

[Pinnacle]

So how did your heart almost blow up?I get my rate that high running on the tread mill.


~Pinnacle~

[testosterona]

So how did your heart almost blow up?I get my rate that high running on the tread mill.


~Pinnacle~

lol, yep thats my target hr.

[MuckDog]

was it racing and you made it worse with a panic attack? ive done that before. and this just happened all the sudden - you didnt take any kind of extreme doeses of anything else - ie - clen, eca stack ect....???

[thegodfather]

From what he described it sounds like his heart was in an abnormal rhythm, which quite a bit more serious than a rapid heart beat, which was probably the reason for needing to shock the heart back into a normal rhythm. If your heart was acting this abnormally, I see no reason that you should have witheld the fact that you're on juice, not a smart move man...You only get one life, the gym and the weights will always be there...

[MuckDog]

this is a good point - i would of just sucked it up and told them what i had been taking. sometimes the only way they can get a proper diagnosis is to know whats totally going on.

[P Rock]

yes, the beats were abnormanl rythym, it was like two beats ten 5 fast ones than 1 than 4 more it was going haywire, and i was resting when this happened, just leting guys know that the juice can play tricks on your heart. dont think it cant happen to you, because i thought the same thing before this happened. i wasnt taking any clen,orals, eca, caffein, alcohol, drugs etc...just the juice... (test and deca)

[damiongage]

could have been a coincedence....and the gear had nothing to do with it

[Two4the$$]

Yeah, could have been ... What all gear are you on? Any hereditary heart problems? DID YOU SMOKE SOME BUD? That can give you an UNREAL anxiety attack ... but the arrhythmia just seems beyond an AAS affect. But remember, there are TWO people you MUST be honest with in this life time... Your Doctor, and your lawyer. And that's a fact!

[nbfire]

Hey , I'm a paramedic and I think I may be able to give you some insight on atrial fib. First off almost 50% of the elderly population (or more) has atrial fib. Some people go in and out of a. fib. and some have it all the time. The problem with a.fib. is when it is uncontrolled (very fast) and this could lead to some problems. Another problem with prolonged a.fib. is because the atrium is basically quivering as opposd to contracting , it could cause a piece of plauqe to fall out of your atrium and into your blood stream. This could cause an embolism (blood clot) which could cause a stroke, serious heart attack or pulmonary blood clot. Dr.'s will commonly prescribe drugs such as warfarin (blood thinners) to prevent clots from forming and thus reducing the chance of a stroke or cardiac event. I am guessing you had an antiarrhythmic drug such as amiodarone admin. at the hospital (at least they would give that on the ambulance) to try and correct the a.fib. As for juice causing it, I have heard cardiac experts saying that gear does not affect your heart and I have heard other that make it sound like a heart attack is on the way if you use it. your heart is a muscle and to think juice doesn't affect it is dumb. I have heard of several med studies that say AAS leads to an increase in arrhythmia's (abnormal heart beats) so it's possible that you could have expierienced that. As far as the episode goes, if you were my patient I would be worried about what caused the cardiac arrhythma more than the a.fib. itself. Keep in mind that your heart's beating works on electrolites especially sodium (which is out of whack during a cycle) and potassium and calcium. Patients with electrolite imbalances have been shown to produce abnormal heart rhythms. If you still feel this way after a cycle then it may be time to see a specialist and be honest and tell them what you took. Medical professonls can't help you if you don't help them so to speak. Hope this sheds a little lite on what a.fib. is and it's complications. P.S. What does it feel like to be cardioverted? I have always wondered.

[doublewide]

I have had the condition you describe since I was 18. Had to be cardioverted before and have been on medicaiton to control it. My heart would do exactly what yours did. When it happens it beats very fast. Like yours 160 bpm + while resting. And VERY abnormal beats. The medication could not control this over the past few years as I would go into atrial fibrilation pretty often. Again, the primary danger of this is having a stroke. I have been to some of the best cardiologists in the south here in Dallas.

About a year ago I had a procedure called an Atrial Ablation. This was a six hour procedure where the surgeon goes through the arteries in your neck and groin and "welds" areas around your heart that may be causing the heart to go out of rythem. This has worked pretty good although it is not 100% now. I go to my cardiologist again next week.

My heart is very healthy except for this electrical problem.

You need to see a cardiologist and see what he says. They will give you a series of tests to check you out. You will probably wear a monitor for 24 hours that monitors your heart activity. This may be happening and you do not know it. I did not need the monitor because when mine happens I know it. It does just what yours did which is obvious something is not right. They will probably put you on medication you will have to take for the rest of your life. Usually these things happen occassionally and alot of people do not even realize it is going on. For them to have to cardiovert you probably means lifelong meds for you.

Let me know if you ahve questions.

And you do not really feel anything when you are cardioverted. They knock you out for a few seconds when they do it.

[liftergirl]

I agree with some of the guys above---you need to tell your doc. I'm a physician myself, and trust me, this is important! Not so much b/c they need to tell your Afib was caused by gear, but so that you can get on proper meds. The problem is...if it's happened once, it could happen again, and you need to have a dr on board. Since you've been on, has your blood pressure gone up? I've read that gear can cause it to, which can induce afib. The most important thing we now know, is to control the heartrate with Afib, and if your normal heart rhythm is not restored in less than 48 hrs after it started, the risk for stroke goes up.

doublewide--were you diagnosed with Wolff Parkinson White syndrome???

It's not quite as common in the elderly as nbfire stated---more like 4% of the population over 65 has had an episode of Afib, and this increases after the age of 70.

Seriously though; at the very least, go to your primary doc to discuss it. And also--if you feel the same symptoms again--head for the Emergency Department! Good luck. Feel free to PM me if you have other questions.

[doublewide]

No, I do not have Wolff Parkinson White Syndrome. I know what this is but I do not have it.

[P Rock]

i think the question was for the person who started the thread..lol..... all of the test that my cardiologist gave me all were 100% perfect. dont have to take meds or anything. never had any family history of any kind..i am 99.9% sure that the juice brought this on....for some people on this board to think that juice doesnt affect your heart they are pretty ignorant, juice affects your entire body, blood, blood presure heart etc... the truth is after having this wake up call, my juicing days are over (although i am feening for some.) im listening to my body and giving up the juice.

[liftergirl]

No, actually, the ? was for DW; but Prock--I'm glad your family history is ok and your heart's ok...but would still be a good idea to see your primary doc.

[nbfire]

Hi liftergirl, I respect your opinion as a Doc but I have to say it's higher than 4%. Out of all my patients that I pick up only a small % don't have some sort of arryhthmia's wether they be heart blocks or a.fib. (mostly a.fib. though.) About half of my patents are a.fib. that are over 65. I think 4% is a little low because everyday I've worked I've seen multiple a.fib. cases and if it were only 4% I would barely ever see it. I would have a better chance of getting struck by lightning than working EMS one shift and not see a.fib. a few times. I guess that I see people that are sick and lots of the time and have pre exsisting cond. compared to the healthy majority that is refered to in statisitcs, so maybe that could have something to do with it. I respect your opinion and higher medical training but I just run into it alot more than 4% thats all. I guess it's kind of like hep. c in my city, less than 1% of people have hep. c in my city but about 10% of my pt.'s have it. So the same could be true about cardiac cond.

[Two4the$$]

LifterGirl ... don't go anywhere. We need mods who are doctors in my opinion. I see you only have 17 posts ... have you done extensive research on AAS (aside from conventional medical views) ? I think you'd be an absolute asset to the board ... and I hope the powers that be will agree.

[nbfire]

Liftergirl you were right and I was wrong about the a.fib. being only 4% of the popualtion (I just checked my books) I just deal with it a hell of a lot more than that so that's why I put 50% there.

[doublewide]

Here is a question for everyone. There are many on this board who have done AAS and know many people that have.

Does anyone know ANYONE that has had an irregular heartbeat with a resting heart rate of 165 bpm that had to get cardioverted that was using steroids?????

You can blame this on steroids all you want but it is HIGHLY unusual. Hell, you do not even have to know anyone that this has happened to. Show me medical publications where they blamed this kind of problem on steroid use. You will be hard pressed to find it.

Show me somewhere in the drug company literature where they say this is even a possibility. Even a warning. If this were a problem, even only a handful of cases, they would put an end to prescribing steroids.

[Two4the$$]

DoubleWide... who are you trying to convince? The guy was mid cycle, had a health problem. You can't rule OUT AAS yet... it's a fact that it affects the heart. You just have to find out what the cause is. Do you have a personal preference in what caused this? I don't. I just want to know. It could (and is maybe more likely than not) NOT AAS. But it could be. So... ?

[doublewide]

I am not ruling out AAS I just do not think that is what caused the problem. My personal opinion. AAS could be what caused it but it could not be. So....?

Truman, not sure why I can not have an opinion on this or why you have a problem with me responding to it. If you read my post above you will see it is a subject that is pretty near and dear to my heart.

I have been on this board for a long time and and am on here every day. I respond to the posts where I think I can help. I just think, in this case, this guy should look at something other that just blaming steroids for it. I think that is important.

[Two4the$$]

Wow, I must be in a wierd mood or something - this is twice that I've offended someone accidentally in the last hour. I apologize. I wasn't trying to suppress your views/opinoins. I was just thinking that since there wasn't anything that justified ruling it out... it was possibly a bias of yours.

[doublewide]

No bias my man. What bias would I have? I do not care what caused it. I would just like to see this guy go to a cardiologist for further testing. Not just blame it on the roids. Could be a serious problem.

I appreciate your participation on the board but can I ask a favor? If you feel the need to reply to every freaking post can you at least change your avatar to like a good looking girl or something? I am sure you are a good guy that means well but your pic is wearing me out.

[liftergirl]

LifterGirl ... don't go anywhere. We need mods who are doctors in my opinion. I see you only have 17 posts ... have you done extensive research on AAS (aside from conventional medical views) ? I think you'd be an absolute asset to the board ... and I hope the powers that be will agree.

LOL-- no, I havent done extensive research on AAS, but my bf uses this site a lot to give accurate advice to some of his clients, and he's taught me a TON; and has asked me the medical side of a lot of this stuff. So, for that reason, I've done quite a bit of reading on here. Thanks for the compliments!

[liftergirl]

Here is a question for everyone. There are many on this board who have done AAS and know many people that have.

Does anyone know ANYONE that has had an irregular heartbeat with a resting heart rate of 165 bpm that had to get cardioverted that was using steroids?????

You can blame this on steroids all you want but it is HIGHLY unusual. Hell, you do not even have to know anyone that this has happened to. Show me medical publications where they blamed this kind of problem on steroid use. You will be hard pressed to find it.

Show me somewhere in the drug company literature where they say this is even a possibility. Even a warning. If this were a problem, even only a handful of cases, they would put an end to prescribing steroids.

If you'd check some of the medical literature on this stuff, you'd find that there is indeed a link between the two. If you check on testosterone supplementation, even for people who are test deficient; you'll find that hypertension (elevated blood pressure), cardiomegaly (enlarged heart), strokes, as well as changes in cholesterol levels (decreasing HDL --which is the good type; and increasing LDL --- the bad type) have all been associated with being on supplementation.

As for Atrial Fib, it can be caused by quite a few things. Hypertension and cardiomegaly are two of the direct causes of Afib. So, since he is otherwise healthy, and not on any other stimulants, and has otherwise normal heart function--- I'd say it was due to the gear. But, believe what you want.....I'm just saying it's highly likely not just a coincidence; and I think he's making a wise choice to stay away from it for awhile.

As far as saying that docs would stop prescribing steroids due to these risks.... ummm ...that's why we have patients come back frequently to get checked out; and if they are having problems, we change the medicines.

[Two4the$$]

even for people who are test deficient; you'll find that hypertension (elevated blood pressure), cardiomegaly (enlarged heart), strokes, as well as changes in cholesterol levels (decreasing HDL --which is the good type; and increasing LDL --- the bad type) have all been associated with being on supplementation.

As for Atrial Fib, it can be caused by quite a few things. Hypertension and cardiomegaly are two of the direct causes of Afib. So, since he is otherwise healthy, and not on any other stimulants, and has otherwise normal heart function--- I'd say it was due to the gear. But, believe what you want.....I'm just saying it's highly likely not just a coincidence; and I think he's making a wise choice to stay away from it for awhile.

Ha ha, thanks again! I was actually feeling like this was probably the point you were basing your response on - and I'm glad you took the time to articulate it! I agree with it as a strong possibility - which is why I asked him about his bias.

no, I havent done extensive research on AAS, but my bf uses this site a lot to give accurate advice to some of his clients, and he's taught me a TON; and has asked me the medical side of a lot of this stuff.

Please stay active here! I for one would certinaly put a vote in to having a doctor on board... even if it meant a paycheck from the board that was funded by "sponsors/members." Although I could see how liability could be an issue, but when isn't it?

I appreciate your participation on the board but can I ask a favor? If you feel the need to reply to every freaking post can you at least change your avatar to like a good looking girl or something? I am sure you are a good guy that means well but your pic is wearing me out.

No problem man ... I'll get right on that.

[doublewide]

Too funny!!!! That is what I am talking about.

Awesome.

[stupidhippo]

If you'd check some of the medical literature on this stuff, you'd find that there is indeed a link between the two. If you check on testosterone supplementation, even for people who are test deficient; you'll find that hypertension (elevated blood pressure), cardiomegaly (enlarged heart), strokes, as well as changes in cholesterol levels (decreasing HDL --which is the good type; and increasing LDL --- the bad type) have all been associated with being on supplementation.

As for Atrial Fib, it can be caused by quite a few things. Hypertension and cardiomegaly are two of the direct causes of Afib. So, since he is otherwise healthy, and not on any other stimulants, and has otherwise normal heart function--- I'd say it was due to the gear. But, believe what you want.....I'm just saying it's highly likely not just a coincidence; and I think he's making a wise choice to stay away from it for awhile.

As far as saying that docs would stop prescribing steroids due to these risks.... ummm ...that's why we have patients come back frequently to get checked out; and if they are having problems, we change the medicines.

agreed 100% here... I've also read on the possible effects of steroids to the cardiac muscle itself.. as the muscle enlarges the possibility of circus movements get bigger - due to the possibly pathological enlargening of the heart which differs in some ways to for example athletes heart. Correct me if Im wrong but thats how I remember it.

[Two4the$$]

Let me know when you've had enough of my new Avatar Doublewide... Just say "mercy!"

LMAO

[stupidhippo]

she is HOT!

[doublewide]

Mercy!!!! Mercy!!!!

You win. Pretty funny.

[liftergirl]

agreed 100% here... I've also read on the possible effects of steroids to the cardiac muscle itself.. as the muscle enlarges the possibility of circus movements get bigger - due to the possibly pathological enlargening of the heart which differs in some ways to for example athletes heart. Correct me if Im wrong but thats how I remember it.

Sort of...but one question-- what do you mean "circus movements" ?? Do you mean the heart beating abnormally? The difference between pathological enlargement of the heart and an athletes' heart is pretty extreme. But, it really depends on what reason the "abnormal" heart became enlarged in the first place. An athletic heart is just purely more functional. But, for example, if you have an enlarged heart b/c of hypertension....then the heart just doesn't function right. The heart becomes sort of stretched out and thicker too b/c it is having to work harder....which is not a good thing.

When the heart gets changed like that...it makes abnormal heart rhythms more likely. (which is why i believe that the test could have caused hypertension....leading to his a fib.)

Make sense???

[stupidhippo]

By circus movements I meant the electrical conduction that functions abnormally which causes fibrillations (decreased velocity of conduction, increased pathway due to the increase in size, shortened refractory period of the muscle). About the enlargening I cant remember quite but I believe it was sumin like this: steroid induced enlargening differs from cardiac hypertrophy induced by training in that the latter targets only some cardiac walls or sumin like that.. man this suz, u learn these thing "well" at the time and after a year u dont remember squat.. heh.. frustrating..

[Seattle Junk]

i think the question was for the person who started the thread..lol..... all of the test that my cardiologist gave me all were 100% perfect. dont have to take meds or anything. never had any family history of any kind..i am 99.9% sure that the juice brought this on....for some people on this board to think that juice doesnt affect your heart they are pretty ignorant, juice affects your entire body, blood, blood presure heart etc... the truth is after having this wake up call, my juicing days are over (although i am feening for some.) im listening to my body and giving up the juice.

Have you used cocaine or meth in stints/binges in the past, be honest. I'm sure most of us here have used some sort of rec drug in our pasts. I'm not bringing rec drugs into this thread I'm just trying to get a history.

[Two4the$$]

Seattle, thats an EXCELLENT point to bring up. Please throw some info in this thread about what that kind of rec. drug use causes.

[Seattle Junk]

I know of 2 dudes that have died in the last 4 years from doing coke + juice. You don't mix those 2 at all. If you've have a past of moderate to heavy use, your heart has already been scarred and weakened. Especially if you don't do cardio on a regular basis, you're asking for the Grim Reaper to visit you. Cardio should be top priority for anybody recovering from drug abuse. You have to think about your heart first before your muscles.

I've just never got into rec drugs (I've tried some) and I don't condemn them. People make their own choices. You don't go from being the party animal then decide to take roids and expect the past not to effect your health going forward.

[Two4the$$]

Okay, I have a friend whose doing Var and HGH ... BUT - he has had a coke addiction that he intermittently indulged for like 20 years I think... maybe longer. Anyway, is it TEST that causes enlarging of the heart? Or all AAS? How do I find out about this?????

[Seattle Junk]

Okay, I have a friend whose doing Var and HGH ... BUT - he has had a coke addiction that he intermittently indulged for like 20 years I think... maybe longer. Anyway, is it TEST that causes enlarging of the heart? Or all AAS? How do I find out about this?????

I believe coke and meth can enlarge the heart due to increased bpm while the person is high. Heart is a muscle. Dude needs to do cardio every day to train the heart to operate at a lower bpm at a resting heart rate. GH on it's own may help repair scarring? I'm not sure? Does he see a cardiologist? My ex-gf assists in implanting defibulators in patients up here in Seattle. He doesn't want one of those.

[Two4the$$]

WOW. I will give him that advice... re: cardiologist and exercise... He's kind of lazy, but he likes basketball - I'll get more info and send it to him. Thanks a lot Seattle! :-)