Why PCT?

[RAM2500]

I am RAM 2500's fiancee. As a pharmacist, I have a basic understanding of physiology but do not fully grasp the concept of PCT. Why wouldn't a very gradual tapering of testosterone just cause the body to begin normal production of endogenous testosterone on it's own? He just finished a 20 week cycle of test 1000mg/week in conjunction with an 8 week cycle of tren . I hate to see him go through the sides of a PCT. What would happen if he reduced the test dose by say 50-100mg/week? After all, how did users cycle off prior to these PCT drugs being on the market?

[dirtyvegas]

the sides are from the gear not being in the body anymore, not the PCT..

I dont understand why his girl would be here askin this and not him though..

read this

POST-CYCLE THERAPY (PCT):
When you use any steroid , your HPTA will be suppressed. What this means is that your system is not producing any endogenous testosterone , which means you won’t have any hormone to help maintain your gains. What good is a cycle if you can’t keep your gains? So the key to cycling is to get your endogenous test back on track ASAP.

One thing that will hinder HPTA activation is excess estrogen, whether it is from aromatizable steroids used in your cycle or whether it be endogenous estrogen. Using anti-estrogens like Clomid and Nolva will help prevent this negative feedback.

When your body sends out LH (leutinizing hormone), it signals your testicles to begin producing test again. During your cycle, LH release will be suppressed and will remain suppressed for a few weeks after your cycle. HCG mimics LH and helps your testicles start producing testosterone. For our purposes we should view HCG as a “bridge” between your cycle and the time your LH returns to normal function. However, HCG when used to heavily or for too long will actually suppress natural test production so it can be counter productive.

Different cycles will suppress your HPTA to different degrees. Cycles including Deca and Fina will be more suppressive than cycles including Var and Primo. I don’t have the energy to design a post cycle therapy for each cycle, so I will post here a post cycle therapy program that should help you recover from any sane and sensible cycle.

Before we outline the universal post-cycle therapy, we need to define when a cycle officially ends. If you are using long acting esters, your cycle ends 2-3 weeks after you take your last shot of the long ester (I wont explain why, just accept it). If you are using ONLY short acting steroids OR your last shot of long acting steroids was over 3 weeks ago, and the only thing you’ve been running since then is short acting steroids, then your cycle officially ends the last day of administration of your steroids

[SPIKE]

the sides are from the gear not being in the body anymore, not the PCT..

I dont understand why his girl would be here askin this and not him though..

read this

POST-CYCLE THERAPY (PCT):
When you use any steroid , your HPTA will be suppressed. What this means is that your system is not producing any endogenous testosterone , which means you won’t have any hormone to help maintain your gains. What good is a cycle if you can’t keep your gains? So the key to cycling is to get your endogenous test back on track ASAP.

One thing that will hinder HPTA activation is excess estrogen, whether it is from aromatizable steroids used in your cycle or whether it be endogenous estrogen. Using anti-estrogens like Clomid and Nolva will help prevent this negative feedback.

When your body sends out LH (leutinizing hormone), it signals your testicles to begin producing test again. During your cycle, LH release will be suppressed and will remain suppressed for a few weeks after your cycle. HCG mimics LH and helps your testicles start producing testosterone. For our purposes we should view HCG as a “bridge” between your cycle and the time your LH returns to normal function. However, HCG when used to heavily or for too long will actually suppress natural test production so it can be counter productive.

Different cycles will suppress your HPTA to different degrees. Cycles including Deca and Fina will be more suppressive than cycles including Var and Primo. I don’t have the energy to design a post cycle therapy for each cycle, so I will post here a post cycle therapy program that should help you recover from any sane and sensible cycle.

Before we outline the universal post-cycle therapy, we need to define when a cycle officially ends. If you are using long acting esters, your cycle ends 2-3 weeks after you take your last shot of the long ester (I wont explain why, just accept it). If you are using ONLY short acting steroids OR your last shot of long acting steroids was over 3 weeks ago, and the only thing you’ve been running since then is short acting steroids, then your cycle officially ends the last day of administration of your steroids

That was very informative. Great job, you didnt leave any room for me to comment. NICE!!!

[Two4the$$]

Why PCT?

TO KEEP YOUR GAINS!

[RAM2500]

Actually my boyfriend does not know I’m writing this. In the past he has tried to explain Clomid, Tamoxifen and how it relates to PCT, however, his explanations are somewhat vague due to lack ok knowledge in pharmacology. As a pharmacist I do know that like just about any drug on the market there are inherent side effects and Clomid is certainly one of them. Clomid has many negative side effects so when you say the lack of Testosterone from coming off is what cause’s the side effects I have to disagree. My last question was not answered; these drugs are relatively new, what did body builders in the 1970’s do?

[fighteveryone]

PCT is your best friend if you want to keep your gains and keep your titties from growing... and be able to have sex after a cycle.

god, PCT is great!

[Caz84]

Firstly, before anyone can comment on what are causing your fiancee's side effects, i think it best you begin by describing what they are?

Also, when you are taking in excess of 1000mg of aas per week, reducing this amount 50-100mg will not be enough to restart endogenous test, as these levels are still way above baseline. And even if you reduced it sufficiently, after 20 weeks of aas use, the LH receptors in his testes will have become desensitised and will take a while to become stimulated again. This is why i would suggest the use of hcg throughout a cycle to keep these receptors stimulated, so that post cycle you can use SERMS (Nolvadex and clomid) to increase LH production, and in turn stimulate natural test production.

PCT is a neccessity. Without you will probably have a month or more period where you will have no test, whether it be from your body not producing enough LH yet, or the testes not able to be stimulated by the LH yet, and this is when you lose gains. PCT aims to resolve these problems.

As for what bodybuilders did in the 1970s, i dont know. They probably did just taper down. But steroids do this anyway as their concentration in the body decreases over time. You cant possibly expect that to be as effective as what ive just described.

As for clomid, alot of people report side effects with this drug, particularly to do with vision. Nolvadex is far more effective at increasing LH production post cycle, 40mg everday until natural test levels are up again will suffice. But remember this wont be as effective if the LH receptors are desenstised, as will be the case with the cycle you fiancee has finished. Hcg should definately of been used. Also when using alot of test i would also suggest the use of arimidex throughout his cycle as well.

Hope this answers alot of your questions.

[j martini]

Actually my boyfriend does not know I’m writing this. In the past he has tried to explain Clomid, Tamoxifen and how it relates to PCT, however, his explanations are somewhat vague due to lack ok knowledge in pharmacology. As a pharmacist I do know that like just about any drug on the market there are inherent side effects and Clomid is certainly one of them. Clomid has many negative side effects so when you say the lack of Testosterone from coming off is what cause’s the side effects I have to disagree. My last question was not answered; these drugs are relatively new, what did body builders in the 1970’s do?

Well in the 70's doses where not as high as today, and some of the drugs used today that shut you down hard where not used or not used in the same amounts.

One of the reasons bodybuilding has progressed since then is because of PCT. Tapering down will not work as your body only produces about 7-112mg of test per day anything injected above this will completely shutdown natural production.

[Two4the$$]

Uh, HCG is for restoring the volume of the testes so they have the capacity to produce the amount needed ... however, the bodies thermostat (HTPA) will not send the message for the testicles to produce testosterone (and during this time you are catabolic and have no sex drive, nor androgens to mitigate the affect of estrogen in estrogen receptors) if there is intra-testicular estrogen (I believe ... as I'm going from memory). The use of Clomid is to reduce intra-testicular estrogen because without doing so you will continue being "shut down." The use of a SERM (selective estrogen receptor mediator) is so that you avoid negative sides such as gyno, however still keep the benefits of estrogen where you need it (remember, it’s a SELECTIVE estrogen blocker) for immune system and cholesterol values. And as far as tapering goes, you have to understand that the half life of these esters commonly used is upwards of 7+ days (... and as a pharmacist you understand this so I'll skip right to the implication). Given that you have to have over 2 grams in your system to get 1000mg released per week from the depot(s), and that your body only produces about 7mg per day, it will be a WHILE before you clear out the exogenous test (and it's byproduct, estrogen) before your thermostat (the HTPA) sends the signal to produce the testosterone again. BUT, remember, as your androgens are being broken down and you have less to essentially assist in the reducing the affects of estrogen (which is the byproduct) it TOO has a half life ... and a man with more female hormones than male hormones is a breading ground for feminization... mood swings, and of course, no sex drive.

Hope that clears it up... yeah there are side affects to ancillaries, but they are less severe than NOT using them... as it may very well WASTE all the risks with the cycle if you spend too much time with in a catabolic state as you wait for your AAS to clear, then the estrogen, then once your body actually sends the signal to turn up the testosterone the nuts are atrophied, which means they can't perform to the required extent until they have enough stimulation over time to return to full size, which they may or may not without a little help. We just use these PCT processes to shorten this whole time-line.

I know you're not our conventional type of member, but the same rule applies - this stuff has all been dissected in the past, use the search button and get the information that leads us to agree on a safe and smart response for MOST people to recover.

Also, I did this all from memory ... which means my motives are no longer as clear as my conclussions... nor the spelling - but trust me, I'm analytical and want to lead a healthy life.

Regards...

[RAM2500]

Thank you very much guys for your responses

[Two4the$$]

You're welcome, but who is this responding? The guy or the pharmacist? And did you understand completely the motives?

[RAM2500]

Im his girlfriend and yes im a Pharmacist. I certainly have a better knowledge of PCT. As in any controlled and non-controlled substances when someone is discontinuing its use contraction is usually is the preferred method. This therapy however, does not apply here. Thank you again.