Not gaining on Test E & Deca!? HELP!

[liftin4life]

Okay...I've done some prohormones before but never the real deal (only what the bottle said and only 3 times). So..my friend recommended 400 Deca/wk and 400 Test E/week. He's a big guy..so I trust him, however my other friend who is 250 lean (20" arms) said NO...do 1/4 of that. This confused me and I had no idea who to believe since I thought 100mg ea was WAY too low.

Anyway... I'm 3.5 wks into it and here's what I did.

Note: I walk 45 hrs a week for my security job. I eat 2400 cals a day (just upped from 2000). I dropped 25lbs in the past 2 months from this job (whoops) and my waist is right at 28" (150lbs 5' 7"..was 170ish). I feel TOO small and lost too much muscle from all this walking. I eat whole foods and a VERY clean diet (I do eat meat though)also 1gal H20/day. My training is on par as I've gained about 10% strength even while dropping the 25lbs).

Wk 1: Test E: 125mg Deca: 125mg
Wk 2: Test E: 125mg Deca: 125mg
Wk 3: Test E: 175mg Deca: 175mg
Wk 4: Test E: 300mg Deca: 200mg (admin 3 days ago)

What do I do? I don't want to up my cals too much and get fat...are my dosages too low? When should it kick in??? (I added M1T 15mg/day as a boost for 2-3 wks until the other kicks in).

PLEASE HELP....I'm very discouraged...I thought this would be more effective!

Start weight: 143: 12 days: 148 (got really sick...down to 140 in 2 days)
Currently 150 at 3.5 wks. GRRRRRRRRR!

[littlebigboy]

more calories...try 3000 at least....500mg test / 400mg deca

[user1000]

better to get a bit of fat than lose out on muscle mass.

the fat you can get rid of for free, the muscle costs money.

say 3500 calories per lb of muscle

you might want to gain 2lb per week

that means eating at least an extra 1000 calories per day on what your cycle requirements are (which may be higher than normal requirements due to extra workouts etc).

you'll kick yourself (like you are know) if you miss out on gains due to not enough calories, if you see urself gaining a little fat over the weeks you can easily cut back a bit on the cals.

[SpiderRico]

way too low cals and wait till at least running it for 5 weeks you will see great results im running the same thing right now my bench max just went up from 285 for 3 reps to 335 for 3 and im up 15 pounds and dropped some body fat im in my sixth week so it should come around

[liftin4life]

I just don't want to up my cals too fast and get fat...should I step up slower?

[legobricks]

no, up them to at least 3000 per day!!!! you want to gain dont you???? you should have started off with just creatine and lots of food at that weight, but to each his own. start eating a lot more bro, if ya cant, eat a little bit more and through in a weight gainer! weight gainers are pretty good if ya cant get all the calories you need.

[JiGGaMaN]

you wont necessarily get fat... it all depends on what you're eating to make up those calories.

[liftin4life]

So it's normal for it to take 5 wks or so before I see results? Will I just blow up? I've heard of frontloading but I didn't do that...could that be why it's slower?

[Phreak101]

you wont necessarily get fat... it all depends on what you're eating to make up those calories.

This is absolutely correct. 9 calories per gram of fat vs 4 per gram of protein, 4 per gram of carbs. 200 grams of protein is only 800 calories, and 200 carbs is only 800 calories.

If that's only 1600 calories, be careful from where that other 1400 is coming from.

[PRAMANIS]

Your cycle is horrible! Why are you tappering up like that? You should be injecting 250mg of Test E & 200mg of Deca on Monday morning and again on Thursday evening. That equals 500mg Test E & 400mg Deca every week from week 1 to week 10. You should also run the Test E 1 week longer than the Deca. The Test E should kick in around week 5 but everyone is different. Are you taking any anti estrogens because you should if you don't want boobies. You should also be taking 200mg of vitamin B-6 every day. Do you have your pct that you should start 2 weeks afcter your last shot. You are also doing a bulking cycle so up your calories to at least 3500 (use shakes if you have too).

[AVAGO]

So it's normal for it to take 5 wks or so before I see results? Will I just blow up? I've heard of frontloading but I didn't do that...could that be why it's slower?

a, your diet is terrible as said before up your calories to 3000 mines at 3500 get 200 grams of protein in you every day

b, your cycle is terrible sounds like no reaserch and if your diet it gash youll never grow bro its food that makes us grow !!!!

[Lift05]

You probably won't get any serious gains until a week or so. Test E takes about until week 4 or 5 to seriously kick in. Also, the test e should always be higher than the deca.

[liftin4life]

I appreciate the input so far. Keep it up! Here's the deal about my cals. I was 117lbs when I started lifting. I made it to 185 in a couple years with only basic supplements and ambition. However, my waist was 37 (chest 46 1/2.... 16" arms)...I was big and strong but not lean enough. So I cut down...but too much...to 155, then back to 175 leaner 35" waist, then 155 then back to 170 34-35 waist range but leaner then 150 then up again to 170ish...this was over a few years. So anyway..when I started this job at 168lbs stable my waist was around 33....when I dropped to 143 in just over 2 months my waist was just below 28...now probably right at 28 with some water retention from the stack. My diet is flawlessly clean except for my cheat day(s) (Sun..sometimes Sat/Sun).

I do NOT want to gain fat when I bulk up for fear of losing muscle AGAIN (3rd of 4th time) for the sake of fat loss. I want to get big and STAY big this time. If I had done this right before, I'd be over 200lbs by now. These fluctuations have been over 7 years of lifting. (24 y/o) (I was a runner for the first few years though).

If I up my calories they're going to be clean cals (since I finally have my diet to the point where I eat only whole/clean foods and no processed sugars). So...I SHOULD be ok upping cals (and monitoring visible fat appearance) ....and backing off on cals if I begin to gain fat right?

Also...apparently I haven't been patient w/the stack...3.5 wks now...if I don't see something by week 5-6 (with increased cals by 100/wk and 4000+ on cheat days), then up my dosage? Also....are the results that dramatic when it "KICKS IN" ? I feel slightly stronger right now and my temper is way up...but no size increase worth mentioning (not even as good as past use of prohormones at low doses).

[liftin4life]

Why does the Test E need to be higher than the Deca? Just for sexual issues?

[liftin4life]

bump

[james21]

Why does the Test E need to be higher than the Deca? Just for sexual issues?

Yes, and depression/well being/etc.

[liftin4life]

Hmm...well right now my sex drive is REALLY REALLY high. Only one issue...my nipples are a little sore but no puffyness or anything. I started taking Aromadex (VPX) at 8cc/day to combat this (2 days ago)..but haven't seen a difference yet. I'm picking up B6 tomorrow. I was thinking of doing the Letro...but not sure if I trust ordering it here. What happens if I get caught w/the Letro? What is the legality of it?

[GearAholic]

Why does the Test E need to be higher than the Deca? Just for sexual issues?

depending on the person himself is going to vary if his sex drive drops signifigintly with the use of deca while also adminstrating the same does of test, i personally would not be willing to run his 1st 3 weeks of his cycle with test the same mg as deca because i know that would shut me down..lets see if i get this right

Deca is a progestin which has the ability to supress your natural testostrone levels,(better stated from Hooker in his deca profile) which also if you read in his profile he will show you a study where 100mgs of deca shut down a persons natural testostrone for 1 month! that was 1 100mg injection and the poor guy was down for a month.. now like many others have stated your test should be higher than your deca dosage the reason i believe in this so strong is because like i stated deca is hard on you and can/will shut you down now.. with low natural testostrone you can show loss of libido and energy, there also are other effects from low natural testostrone but when using other AAS in conjuction/same mg as your synthetic test i am no quite sure if that would be effected until i read up a little more i won't go out on this limb any further...
thats just a couple of reasons ppl like to supplement Testostrone esters as a base..because they are the closest thing to our natural testostrone that we can get, even though we are adminstrating forgien chemicals into our body i see it as we might as well try maintain some sort of balance and that is to make sure we keep our test levels higher than other componds we put in our body(i can say 1 big reason it is a must for alot of bb's is libido) because i know personally good friends who will ride the lines with dosages end up getting shut down even when there adminstrating test 100mgs above there other componds but i mostly saw that in tren incidences just my opinion if im wrong please correct me

~GA

[liftin4life]

My sex drive is REALLY high right now though. I guess I could up the test if I started having problems. I wanted to get some Letro b/c my nipples are somewhat sore...I bought B6 today and will be doing 300mg/day and I'm taking Aromadex (similar to 6-OXO) and will be adding Flaxseed oil (actually clinically shown to reduce estro more than nolva due to the action of the lignans).

Anyway...has anyone ordered Letro from this site? What is the legality of Letro?

[nytro]

All Of Ar-r Research Products Are Great. My Pet Rat Loves Them!

[nytro]

By The Way Bro If You Want To Be Big... You Got To Eat Big... Lift Big... And Think Big... Good Luck!!!

[steve lopez]

OK it sounds like your doing your first cycle so I'm going to try and help you. Please listen your dosages should always be 3 to 4 days apart, almost never once a week. By the way I like the decca where it's at try and do 75mg and 100teste on mondays and thursdays. You don't have to go crazy at 1st make sure you make a steady increase week by week untill the last 2 weeks when you'll want to reduce those doses. Arnold and those dudes did low doses. Get that nolv or anti estro quick!! or you'll have tits in no time bro, that is priority #1 and if the nips still are tender up the dosage.
Lets talk diet and listin to me bro!!! 2000? 3000? this is weak!! you need to eat 5000-7000 calories every day bro. I Swear you will see gains like you have never imagined!!!!!!!!!!!! Next if your walking 45 hrs a week i would never go below 5k cals. The amount of food you eat will be a difference of night and day. Eat 7k calories every day thats 1000 cals per meal at least for 3 weeks then Try and lean out. I know it sounds impossible to eat that much but you must. Try 3 scoops of protein 1+ cup of whole milk, a fist size serving of peanut butter and an whole egg -thats 1000 cals in one meal. U have to diet after a bit. However i know for a fact the differnce will be making the leap from a lil bit bigger to being a big DUDE! I swear follow my advice and train hard, and you will see results in just 72 hours. Oh ya at first it may be very hard to get in all those calories so try fast food at first. like a a whopper it has 800 cals. It will give you a good idea of what it means to eat big and then you'll be set on eating heathy any way you can just to avoid that crap. Last but not least don't forget to take a day or two three off, u grow when u rest and take a sunday or more to sleep all day, wake up , eat snooze, a good 10 or 12 hour sleep day will make u GROW!! last but not least keep your training during the "quit being a woss" portion of your cycle to low rep 4-6 (HEAVY) 2.5-3 min rest for all body parts. It will make you grow like hell. Let me say steroids do not work unless you eat between 5-7k cals per day, end of story!

[liftin4life]

OK it sounds like your doing your first cycle so I'm going to try and help you. Please listen your dosages should always be 3 to 4 days apart, almost never once a week. By the way I like the decca where it's at try and do 75mg and 100teste on mondays and thursdays. You don't have to go crazy at 1st make sure you make a steady increase week by week untill the last 2 weeks when you'll want to reduce those doses. Arnold and those dudes did low doses. Get that nolv or anti estro quick!! or you'll have tits in no time bro, that is priority #1 and if the nips still are tender up the dosage.

After taking the B-6, the soreness is 90% gone and most of the puffyness is gone as well (in combo with my Aromadex). I'm working on getting some nolva though...but for now everything seems fine..whew. As far as the dosages of stack..my strength is increasing dramatically (past 2 workouts...3 days)...and my pumps are AMAZING...so I'm assuming it will "kick in" as people say...very shortly.

you need to eat 5000-7000 calories every day bro. I Swear you will see gains like you have never imagined!!!!!!!!!!!! Next if your walking 45 hrs a week i would never go below 5k cals. The amount of food you eat will be a difference of night and day. Eat 7k calories every day thats 1000 cals per meal at least for 3 weeks then Try and lean out. U have to diet after a bit. However i know for a fact the differnce will be making the leap from a lil bit bigger to being a big DUDE!

See...I've eaten 4-5k a day before but got chunky. I've been 185 before and very built/strong but too much fat. I just don't want to get big then get small again to lose fat like I've done the past 3 times. How do you "lean out" during a stack? drop back from 5k until I see more cuts? I don't want to be chunky. I'm simply asking for a more detailed expanation of how/why you believe this is effective because I want the best possible results.

last but not least keep your training during the "quit being a woss" portion of your cycle to low rep 4-6 (HEAVY) 2.5-3 min rest for all body parts.

What is the "quit being a wuss portion" of the cycle? I've been at 8-10 rep range with about a 2 min rest period. How many sets of the 4-6 per exercise/bodypart?

[liftin4life]

bump

[C_Bino]

Sorry if I missed it. But how tall are you man?

-Bino

[liftin4life]

5' 7"

[liftin4life]

bump

[liftin4life]

Does anyone have a link to the roid calculator? I calculated what I'm taking based on Test E and Deca having a 1wk half life and I'm already at peak concentrations but not really seeing results.

[PRAMANIS]

You should only be taking 200mg of B-6 a day total, any more than that can be toxic bro.

You weren't on steroids while eating those calories thats why you got chunky. In my opinion your cycle is not right. Why do Test and Deca if you don't want to gain fat.......I think you should be doing Test, EQ, and Whinny if you want to stay ripped and still get bigger.

[Gra]

Test E 500mg a week, Deca 400mg a week. Your cals need to be at least 4000kcal a day. Maybe more with all the walking your doing at work. You wouldn`t get to fat, and if you do it right you don`t lose all muscles trying to lean up...

[liftin4life]

Hmm..maybe I should have done a test only cycle. Grrr..well I'm 4.5 wks in...I could always up the test and drop the Deca at this point since I haven't seen results yet anyway (other than some strength).

[steve lopez]

Sorry bro i meant reps of 3-4 and 3-4 exercises per body part with 2-3 min. rest.
Ok first u have to make a choice do you wan't to be huge, or be ripped? If you wan't to look great, have the abs, get the chicks, then this is the wrong plan. i would suggest running or working out with no rest between sets every morning on an empty stomach, eat 35-40grams of protien w/every meal keep your carbs low and low glycemic, eat alot of salads. int the weeks following you might want to do abs evey other day for one hour and increase training to twice per day like: cardio morning + cardio evenig or cardio morn + lift evening, or lift morn + abs Evening. all your work outs need to be on an empty stomach, a good rule of thumb is wait 3 hours after every meal. believe me unless you have fab jeans you really can't do both. I used to worry about being a giant, now I'm about the abs, the chicks...being lean. I am much happier.

[don anabolico]

ill say it to you just as ive said it to a million peeps.... if your not growing, your not eating! peroid.

up your calories by 500 once a week till you see gains.

[liftin4life]

Well...for 3 days I ate around 4k cals (1 of those days I had off work so no walking) and I noticed a definite improvement in muscle fullness. We'll see if it holds for a few more days. Apparently cals are one of my issues at hand if not the most important one at this point in time. So...I'll work on that and hopefully that with (building to peak levels) will contribute to more noticable gains. Any additional input from any readers is appreciated.

[don anabolico]

i have hard times with eating enough cals also man.
check this out.

2 wheat tortillas
fat free sour cream
mixed fine cheese
8 oz beef

almost 800 cals

just be creative.
btw, that totilla is real easy to finish, easier than it should be lol.

[liftin4life]

Thanks for the info man. Getting cals is not an issue at all. I've eaten 5k a day before. KNOWING how many cals to eat without getting chunky and how fast to up them without getting chunky is my concern.

[ThePump]

eat more boy... more more more

[don anabolico]

Thanks for the info man. Getting cals is not an issue at all. I've eaten 5k a day before. KNOWING how many cals to eat without getting chunky and how fast to up them without getting chunky is my concern.

look up bmr calculator that should take care of your worries.
or look up harris benadict formula.

[liftin4life]

Well according to the BMR calculator and a "calories burned" calculator regarding my walking, I need almost 4k a day to break even! Damn...I'm about 1500 short of that.

[liftin4life]

bump