Oral Only Cycle (DBol) - An Experiment and some Results

[Kaz]

Okay, there have been quite a few posts recently about oral only cycles. One in particular attracted my attention and that was about using Dbol in AM only. It was due to that, and another post by CYCLEON (About T3 of all things) which prompted me into this little experiment. I figure that some may like to hear my results, and this may be a good post for a newbie to read as well. (Feel free to disagree with me, I'm only posting what has happened!)

Let me just get a baseline for the What’s and Why’s right now.

First, (For the newbies) we are ALL different – My findings worked for ME but may not work the same for you! Bear that in mind. This post is for information ONLY! I am not advocating this as a cycle, I'm just reporting my findings.

Second, I did NOT gauge my results by how many lbs I gained/lost. Since Dbol often makes us hold water we may say that we put on 15lbs and lost 10lbs of it and that sounds pretty bad, however if we had ignored the water and said we did a mild cycle and put on 5lbs that’s not so bad – To avoid this I used the mirror as a gauge for gains.

Third, as many of you may know if you have ever read some of my posts I am an advocate for light dosing – If you can gain from 200mg why use 400mg, since the only thing to actually go up exponentially with the dose are side effects!

Since we all know that Dbol is liver toxic I decided to go with a fairly light dose of the Russian Dbol. I used Russians because they always give me reasonably gains (Not as good as Naposim but better than Thais) but make me hold less water than Naposim. (Again this is a personal preference!)

I started with 35mg ed and ran this dose for 2 weeks, however, rather than split this up throughout the day as we normally would I took it like this:

Up at 7:00 am
Take 2 tabs (10mg) at 7:30 am
Take 2 tabs (10mg) at 10:30 am (About 20-30 mins before gym)
Take 2 tabs (10mg) at 12:00 pm (Just after gym)

The extra tab (For those of you who did the math) was thrown in anywhere in there as I felt like it, although I TRIED to get it to rotate from one to the other. As you can see that is pretty much an AM only dosing of Dbol.

After 2 weeks of this I had made some noticeable gains (In the mirror) and my strength in the gym had gone up a little bit too. Interestingly I could see that there was very little water being held (And I DO mean VERY little!). Far, far less than I would normally hold, and I am a bitch for holding water on Dbol.

My next move was to drop my dose to 20mg each day, skipping the 7:30 tabs completely. I did this for a week.
At the start of the next week (This week in fact) I dropped the dose to 10mg each day, taking my tabs just before I go to the gym.

When I first started the dose I noticed some slight testicular shrinkage (Within 7-8 days). This is now reversing itself as the dose drops (This is the reaction I expected from reading CYCLEON’s T3 post)

I also seem to have retained the gains I made, although they were not massive by any means, they are still there. I have had 2 other people watching me carefully too, and they agree that the gains have remained. Come this Sunday I will finish the Dbol completely.

If I had to guess I would say that I have maybe gained about 8-10lbs, perhaps a little more. My chest and arms especially seem fuller and harder (NOT something I usually associate with Dbol!), and again I have to say that I have held very little water at all, and as far as I can tell I am not holding any at all now.

I am sure that many of you will scoff at gaining a mere 8-10lbs, but before you do think about the fact that I gained them in 4 weeks only, I used one pretty cheap steroid and at very light dosage too! I retained all my gains, and held very little water. One of the common side effects of Dbol is to make me puff and pant more, as my blood pressure rises and I hold more water. This did not happen at all. Aside from the (very) slight testicular shrinkage I have suffered no sides at all, and even that has almost reversed itself completely now.

I doubt that the gains I made could be increased very much more by increasing the dose (I think you would end up holding water again, which was something I tried to avoid), however, if you DID increase the dose I would suggest a longer time to reduce it too, and of course that means a longer time using a liver toxic drug! One of my objectives was to see if I COULD make gains on a low dose in just 4 weeks. The answer is yes!

My conclusion then is that an oral only cycle CAN produce gains, but they will be small if you want to stay with a fairly safe dose. Of course you will make dramatically more gains if you incorporate an injectable as well. For myself I am rather pleased at the result. I have gained about 10lbs that seems to be in no hurry to go anywhere!

Peace

[Ajax]

Nice work! I love underground scientists!

[Tarzan]

Way to go Kaz!

Sometimes you have to think out side the box to have a break through.

Good luck

[CrazyRussian]

what if you threw clen in there? is it possible to do a clen/dbol stack? just wondering how that would work, thanks.

[Kaz]

I see no reason why you couldnt do a clen Dbol stack, in fact its really a fair idea since although you would not actually be gaining much, you would not be losing it either!

Clen itself is actually mildly anabolic , but only for a short while when you first start to use it (After that it becomes somewhat catabolic), which is why some people prefer to use it 2 days on and then 2 days off, which is generally how I get good results from it. I tried staying on it and the results vanished!

Nice idea, maybe you should try it and let us know how it goes!

[CrazyRussian]

I think I will give it a try. Id run the dbol the way you explained above. With dbol you get a lot of water weight and that tends to go away after your cycle, so with the clen i was thinking that your gains would show without the water weight attached to the dbol, seemed like a good idea to me, I would only be looking to gain and keep 5-10 pounds.

[iron4life79]

well, i for one would never scoff at an 8-10 lb keepable gain in only 4 weeks, in fact i may end up trying this myself towards the end of the summer when i think i'll need it most.
while im adamant about being against orals only, this is one i may consider, as side effects seemed light, and water retention was minimal.
nice job brother, and thanks for taking the time to give us the lowdown on this experiment.

peace bb79

[Nate_Dog]

Originally posted by Kaz


Third, as many of you may know if you have ever read some of my posts I am an advocate for light dosing – If you can gain from 200mg why use 400mg, since the only thing to actually go up exponentially with the dose are side effects!

EXACTLY WHAT I THINK!!!

I am getting tempted to try this out.....

Q. Did you take clomid after ?

[theron]

good work there bro.

[Kaz]

Originally posted by Nate_Dog
.....Q. Did you take clomid after ?

No. I very deliberately did not take clomid since it has never helped me keep DBol gains before.

I decided to try tapering the DBol off to give my own levels a chance to catch up on their own (A direct rip from CYCLEONS excellent T3 post). It seems to have worked ok too. (Of course I had anti-e on hand just in case!)


barbells79: I have to say again that the weight increase is only a guess. I deliberatly did not weigh myself before and after since I did not want to get any false readings from water.

The 2 people who watched me were my training partner and my wife. Both agreed that I kept my gains and between us we took a guess at the weight gain.

Either way Im not complaining. The gains are visible gains and that is what counts. They are still there and do not seem to be going anyplace

[Nate_Dog]

I am going to try it tommorrow. But I need some Nolva just incase. I have Proviron and Clomid.. but would rather save them for later... Nolva is cheap for me...

I will keep you posted.

[McBain]

Very cool post Kaz. The idea of slowly lowering dosages instead of using clomid is a very interesting and appealing idea. Of course like you said having anti-e's on hand is a must _just in case_.

[Nate_Dog]

Hey bros.. first time taking dbols... they make you fuckers feel hellish sick when you pop them ??

[Nate_Dog]

Waking up... popping a dbol ... then doing cardio?

What do yu think? Good way to fight morning catabolism and also fight catabolism from cardio?

Yes or no ?

As for the dbol I popped one on wake up.. only 1. Yes. I know it is not much,.. but it has to work better then my HMB... so why not?

[Kaz]

Originally posted by Nate_Dog
Hey bros.. first time taking dbols... they make you fuckers feel hellish sick when you pop them ??

Hmm never experienced that before! Keep a close eye on it while you are taking them!

Originally posted by Nate_Dog
Waking up... popping a dbol ... then doing cardio?

What do yu think? Good way to fight morning catabolism and also fight catabolism from cardio?

Yes or no ?

As for the dbol I popped one on wake up.. only 1. Yes. I know it is not much,.. but it has to work better then my HMB... so why not?

In theory this would work but I would be careful about how long you are taking them for, even at such low doses. Also remember that there will probably be SOME effect on your own levels while you are doing this. Again I think it is something you would need to monitor closely and then maybe post your results/findings. Remember that I have only done this for 4 weeks!

[Sexual Mustard]

Kaz--excellent study. Thanks for sharing with us!

[Kaz]

Originally posted by johan
Hum if you gain 8-10 pounds in 4 weeks why not rest 4 weeks and then hit the d-bols again for another 4 weeks.
that would give you 15-20 pounds in a 12 week period, doesnt sound shabby to me.

Does the liver have time to heal upp fully if doing what I said above??

Imagine the gains in a year if doing what I said above

Cheap and effective.

Thats an interesting idea, and one that I have considered. Im pretty sure that your liver would get plenty of time to recover since the dose is pretty low anyway. Im not entirely convinced that you would not need to increase the dose after a while though.

Remember that my gains were only guessed at - They were visible and noticable but I didnt actually weigh them and this is the first time Iv tried this. I am now tempted to try what you suggest and see if I continue to make gains which are at least noticable, but using the same dose each time.

Of course I will keep you all posted should I decide to do this!

[iron4life79]

Originally posted by Kaz





barbells79: I have to say again that the weight increase is only a guess. I deliberatly did not weigh myself before and after since I did not want to get any false readings from water.

The 2 people who watched me were my training partner and my wife. Both agreed that I kept my gains and between us we took a guess at the weight gain.

Either way Im not complaining. The gains are visible gains and that is what counts. They are still there and do not seem to be going anyplace

kaz,
i understand totally what youre saying bro, but if your estimate of 8lbs(without weighing yourself.......) is anywhere near correct, then this is certainly a good sign that, if you do it right, dbol gains are keepable. i also just assumed you used the clomid, so props to the brother who thought to ask you that also.
not using the clomid just makes a stronger case for keeping the gains once again. i do want to ask you this though: what changes did you make in your diet? what about your workouts?

peace bb79

[iron4life79]

Originally posted by johan
Hum if you gain 8-10 pounds in 4 weeks why not rest 4 weeks and then hit the d-bols again for another 4 weeks.
that would give you 15-20 pounds in a 12 week period, doesnt sound shabby to me.

Does the liver have time to heal upp fully if doing what I said above??

Imagine the gains in a year if doing what I said above

Cheap and effective.

if im not mistaken, there was a brother on elite who did a 2 week on/2 week off type of thing for a year. i cant remember exact numbers, but his gains were pretty solid, also, i dont know how much, if any he actually kept.


peace bb79

[Kaz]

Originally posted by barbells79
..... i do want to ask you this though: what changes did you make in your diet? what about your workouts?
peace bb79

I didnt in fact make ANY changes at all to my diet. It must be said right now that my diet is NOT what you would call good OR clean for that matter! When I fancy something to eat I dam well eat it! I am one of the lucky ones and I seem to be able to gain no matter how I eat (I also gain fat very easily to though!)

Having said that I DID eat more food! I know this since my wife complained! I wouldnt like to guess how much more, certainly not as much as say an EQ cycle would have made me eat, but an increase was there. It would be interesting to do this again but to eat a strict diet this time.

As for training - I try to train as hard as I can all the time. I do 5 days per week for as long as I can and then crash and burn for a week and have a rest! I did notice that my training was more intense and the pumps were very good too. Again NOT as good as a major cycle might produce but there was a noticable difference.

Of course much of this might have been psychosomatic - I know I trained harder because my training partner (Who is off cycle waiting for me to start my main cycle) complained I was killing him!

As I said I wanted to keep tabs on this by seeing what was noticable, rather than what the numbers said. I have been planning to change my diet again and lose some bf for ages and this might be a time to start getting into that. Nate_Dog mentioned doing AM Dbol to cut catabolism while doing morning cardio and I think that the same could well work when dieting down.

[Nate_Dog]

I am going to take morning Dbol for a month. Then take a lil clomid after.

I have checked my weight. And will continue to do so at regular intervals and post cycle. I dont expect much as I am only taking 1-2 tabs in the morning. A few kilos would not go astray.

Just curious, so here goes the experiment. Should continue to be an interesting thread.

In regards to the stomach pains... the profile said..It is recommended that the tablets be taken during meals so that pos-sible gastrointestinal pains can be avoided.

Keep you posted.

[iron4life79]

kaz,
damn bro, you are one lucky dude..........eating dbol only and keeping the gains, eating whatever you want for that matter and not gaining anything but muscle...........hehe.
as far as the training goes, you and i train a lot alike. so all is looking good for me trying this little experiment you started. got to hand it to you brother, you have my interest at an all time high here............

peace bb79

[LiftHeavy]

pretty impresive.....thanks for the info.....who ever is trying this also..keep us posted.....

[packwolf]

I've started a d-bol only cycle. I am a first time user. I know this sounds wimpy but because it is my first time dealing with AS, I started just taking 2 per day (10 mg.) just to see how I would handle it. I also have been taking a small amount of proviren. I have been taking ala just in case. After a week I feel real good and I swear by the mirror I feel pretty good about myself and I think I am looking better. It is probably my imagination.

I cant remember the guys name but there is this bodybuilder that answers questions and someone asked about d-bol and the guy said that he has seen guys who take 1 d-bol a day and achieve gains. That leads me to my question, I was going to up my dose after a week but I am not a pro bodybuilder. I am very happy with just looking a bit buffed, hard and feeling good. Is it possible in your opinion for an average Joe to take 2 d-bols a day, work out hard, have a good diet and achieve some kind of gains after time ? If you were taking such a low dose like 2 a day for 10mg, how long could you safely take them ? I get scared when I read that anything over 4 pills (20mg) can cause bitch tits. I don't want any part of that shit !! Thanks.

[Kaz]

Originally posted by packwolf
......Is it possible in your opinion for an average Joe to take 2 d-bols a day, work out hard, have a good diet and achieve some kind of gains after time ? If you were taking such a low dose like 2 a day for 10mg, how long could you safely take them ? I get scared when I read that anything over 4 pills (20mg) can cause bitch tits. I don't want any part of that shit !! Thanks.

I low dose CAN have effects, but there is a fine line between a safe low dose to make gains and too small a dose to do any good! (BTW I am a strict advocate of low dose cycles)

In your case since this is your first cycle (You didnt say how old you were etc) you should make at least some gains on a very low dose, however you will have to get up into the 20+mg per day dose sometime soon or those gains will stop.

As for time on, I NEVER EVER run DBol longer than 4 weeks and I always have the same time off as I had on to make sure I give my system (My poor old liver especially) time to recover.

I would also say not to take any kind of anti-e unless you actually need it, since you may just be building up a tolerance of it so when/if you DO need it you will need much more of it. Gynocomastia (Bitch tit) is not something which will appear overnight no matter what AS you are using or what dose you are using. You WILL get symptoms first and as long as you listen to those you will be fine. (Itchy and/or sore nipples is usually the first symptom)

You can continue to make some gains, albeit small ones on 4 week cycles like this, but you will have to increase your dose or you are not going to do yourself any good at all in the long run. Takeing your time and watching the dose is an excellent move, but I think you are currenlty erring too far on the side of caution!

The fact is that if you are serious about AS and muscular development (Careful, safe and slow muscular development at that!) you WILL have to get into the world of injectables sooner or later. The time scale for that depends on your ages and stats right now. If you are 21 or under then I would suggest you stop right now and take advantage of the natural test you have running like a torrent round your system now! (Why shut THAT lot down when you dont need to!!)

[Nate_Dog]

Hey guys... 2nd day... Around lunch.. my left nipple started itching, and is tender to touch. This is no big deal, I have had this happen before(but never on such little ammounts). I HATE BEING SO ESTROGEN SENSITIVE.

I have started on Arimadex and Clomid. So I will clear this up asap. Do you think .25 arimdex/day + 50mg clomid/day for a week will sort this sucker out?

So I am going to abort the experiment and save my Arimdex for a decent cycle. Very disappionted I am. Was looking forward to the dbol helping me fight morning catabolism.

Shit happens, not all of us have such lucky genetics.

Will continue to monitor the thread and follow peoples results.

[Kaz]

Dam!! Sorry to hear about that bro! But at least you are doing the right thing and aborting!

I would think that the arimidex and clomid will do the trick but this is something only you can tell, but monitoring yourself as you go!

[Canes4Ever]

Great post and good work Kaz, this one might deserve sticky consideration.

again this is for you Kaz

[Nate_Dog]

Originally posted by Kaz
Dam!! Sorry to hear about that bro! But at least you are doing the right thing and aborting!

I would think that the arimidex and clomid will do the trick but this is something only you can tell, but monitoring yourself as you go!

I am very dissappointed, but thats how the cookie crumbles. I just think that I am one of the unlucky ones and need to take counter measures. WHY ME?

But Kaz, I look forward to your results, and even though it has not worked out for me, thanks for starting an interesting thread.

Keep up the good work

[Nate_Dog]

Kaz...

Surely wouldn't taking 2 dbol in the morning, produce enough estrogen to shut down the testies (via negitive feedback loops)?

You could take arimadex, but surely this you warrent you to save your money and keep the Arimadex for a decent cycle.

Perhaps you could use proviron , but then again depends how much you pay for it.

Comments?

[Kaz]

Originally posted by Nate_Dog
Kaz...

Surely wouldn't taking 2 dbol in the morning, produce enough estrogen to shut down the testies (via negitive feedback loops)?

You could take arimadex, but surely this you warrent you to save your money and keep the Arimadex for a decent cycle.

Perhaps you could use proviron , but then again depends how much you pay for it.

Comments?

To tell the truth Im not entirely sure about this, however I have read (On this board I beleive) that there is some evidence to suggest that taking DBol in AM only will not shut you down completely becuase of the short half life of the drug.

However, having said that you will note that I mentioned some slight shrinkage in that department. I have no doubt that it had at least started to shut me down, however, the dose and the timing of the dose could not have been enough to do the job completely perhaps.

I actually stopped my final dose yesterday (Sunday), which was the end of my 4th week and (As far as the hand can tell) my family jewels are back to their normal perky selves. Again, I can only assume that the dose and the timing have kept the shutdown to a minimum, and that the taper off has aided in the recovery.

Its interesting to note that this morning (Monday) I am actually raging to get into the gym! I can almost feel the pump! This must be a mental thing since the last of the DBol must have left my system (Or at least become innactive) well before last night. I still dont seem to have lost anything, my chest and arms still seem very firm.

Just for the record, I didnt actually take anything else with the DBol. No anti-e's no clomid etc. (Of course I had them there just in case) I would guess that you are right about the shutdown, but perhaps timing and dose limit the effect of this. Of course this may be another of those "Per person" AS things as well.

Since you sufffered from a reaction so quickly it may be an idea for you to use something along with the DBol. If you feel inclined to try it of course let us know how you get on. I agree that you would probably be better off taking your anti-e on a major cycle, but a cycle is a cycle no matter how big it may be, especially when it causes side effects!

[Nate_Dog]

Well... perhaps later on I might do another AM Dbol with Proviron .. I will see how I go.

I am just going to save myself for either a Prop/Dbol Cycle or a Prop/EQ Cycle.

Still interested to see everyone's results.

Peace.

[Buddha_Red]

Hey gang,

Seriously a great post. I have learned alot from just this one thread =)
Thanks alot to everyone that has responded, i learn from questions others ask.

Ok my question

What "abort's" should i have onhand. In the future i plan to aquire t3 and clen . I have read that you must have anti-e's and clomid .

So i know that i will have to buy clomid but which anti-e would be overall the best and lowest to buy?

Keep up the great posts

[Nate_Dog]

Nolvadex is cheap.
Proviron is cheap.
Perhaps you should look at combining the two.

Clomid is an Anti-e also, it is cheap.

Arimadex... is expensive... BUT KICKS ASS. I will never ever cycle with out it. I am just too estrogen sensitive.

[Buddha_Red]

Nate_Dog


Thanks bro, good info. i will read up on all of those and decide what i need to buy.

[jamotech]

Good experiment kaz, me second cycle was a small 5 week russiaan d-bol cycle. I got very bloated but kept enough. I have taken your advice in the "how much is too much" thread and sticking to injectables. It sucks because I still have a box left and thats all I got. My question is are there any injectable as that a similar cylce could be done with, injectable d-bol?

[Kaz]

jamotech: You could probably use Test Supension like this, since there is no ester in it and it becomes active/inactive very quickly. Having said that Iv not used it myself, so you would have to experiemnt on yourself!

[Smalluser]

Originally posted by CrazyRussian
what if you threw clen in there? is it possible to do a clen/dbol stack? just wondering how that would work, thanks.

Did you try the "dbol / clen stack" and if so what results ??

kind regards Smalluser

[Nate_Dog]

Sounds pretty silly to me.

Do your research.

[Smalluser]

Originally posted by Kaz
I see no reason why you couldnt do a clen Dbol stack, in fact its really a fair idea since although you would not actually be gaining much, you would not be losing it either!

Clen itself is actually mildly anabolic , but only for a short while when you first start to use it (After that it becomes somewhat catabolic), which is why some people prefer to use it 2 days on and then 2 days off, which is generally how I get good results from it. I tried staying on it and the results vanished!

Nice idea, maybe you should try it and let us know how it goes!

Ok I read this so I thought maybe someone has experienced with it,

sorry for the bad English.

Kind regards Smalluser