Maintaining Gains

I'm a "novice" and have been doing my research in preparation for a first cycle. Here is what I've planned:

Deca-Durabolin for 10 weeks in a pyramid scheme for dosage (starting with 200, increasing by 50 each week, peaking at 400 in the 5th and 6th weeks, then tapering down to end at 200 the last week)

Also, I would stack this with 15mg Dianabol for the middle 6 weeks, possibly taking a Nolvadex 20/ Proviron 50 combo during this time.

My main concern is maintaining gains at the end of the cycle, since this is where I've encountered the greatest discrepancies in what is reccomended. (Some books even go so far to say that steroids are a waste of time because you will lose virtually everything when you go off).

What I'm tentatively planning at this point is Clomid 100mg for the 11th week, followed by Clomid 50 mg for the 12th week. After this, Clenbuterol 140, gradually decreasing over 8 weeks. I'm not sure if I should gradually decrease calories at the same time.

I think this combined with the pyramid intake should minimalize a major catabolic phase, but I'd like to hear the opinion of some of the gurus who visit this board. I'm also curious what kind of gains such a program might help one to gain. I'm 6'2", 200 lbs and would like to add a bit of bulk.

Thanks.

First off, tappering is a waiste. It is an outdated OLD practice that has no real use now. Just hit the clomid for 3 week post cycle and go with 400mg/week for the 10 weeks and you will do fine. Also, put the D-bol in the first 6 weeks at 30mg ed. 15mg is hardly enough to notice any gains. Good idea to add some test in this cycle as well but its not 100% nessasary. I think you should try and get some up to date research done before you start this cycle.

Would have to agree with BG about the tapering waist of time run the deca no less than 400mg per week I would also add some test to this cycle for sure a classic test/deca/dbol wouuld be best 4 u im sure. Deca alone could cause deca dick and I really wouldnt recomend it alone to anyone. Dbol go with 30-40mg ed for the first 4-5 weeks kickstart the cycle, clomid I would go with one week to 10 days after your last shot 50mg/100mg/50mg ed for 3 weeks also you talked about clen it is good as an anti catabolic so take it for 2 weeks along side the clomid start at the same time dont start at 140mcg u will be in trouble lol I think start at 2 tabs 40mcg then work up to 140mcg max stay at that for the 2 weeeks dont taper of it. Also about your diet dont drop the clas for at least 4 weeks post cycle in my opinion to easy to lose what you have gained keep the kal intake up untill then then think about cutting

peace
jason

Hey Bro, these guy's are right, Like BIG GUNS said, but I'de follow w/ some sustanon 250. As a novice I wouldnt play w/ clomid over 50 mg and take it no longer than 6 weeks ( max ). This stuff can mess w/ you. I wouldnt take Clen over 120mcg /d, working your way up to it. Clen plays an important part w/ your recept. to help you keep your gains. use it at the end of your cycle for 10 weeks ( max ). ....Peace Man

Dont pyramid your deca - take it at around 400/wk straight through no tapering up or down - bring dbol in first thing for 4-6wks and go ahead and start at a higher dose than 15/day - throw some test in there - prefereably Sus or Eq in my opinion at around 500/400, why take so much nolv AND proviron through your cycle? You very concerned about gyno??

Quote:

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Originally posted by THICK
Hey Bro, these guy's are right, Like BIG GUNS said, but I'de follow w/ some sustanon 250. As a novice I wouldnt play w/ clomid over 50 mg and take it no longer than 6 weeks ( max ). This stuff can mess w/ you. I wouldnt take Clen over 120mcg /d, working your way up to it. Clen plays an important part w/ your recept. to help you keep your gains. use it at the end of your cycle for 10 weeks ( max ). ....Peace Man

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Sorry guys, I keep getting Clom. and Cytomel mixed up, i usually combine cytomel w/ clen., not cClom., I meant to be careful when using Cytomel, it will mess you if you abuse it, do your research....Peace

I have been doing cycles since I was 26. I am 34 now. In that time span, there have been short periods (1-3 months) and a long period (2 years) when I did not use ANYTHING. From my experience (and knowing many old timers, guys who were 260, 280, etc. that eventually got out of steroids), I can tell you that you will eventually lose everything off of a short time experimenting with test, dbol, clomid, whatever, that is, after you stop. However, that being said, if you go on a series of cycles, with short breaks inbetween, using clomid and clen properly, etc. for a year (or three) and then quit - there is a high probability that you will keep forever (provided you train and eat properly) a signigicant amount of mass. In my case, I was about 220 and 20% bf when I first used juice. Since then (after many cycles) I have EASILY got up to 245 at about 10% bf with only over the counter stuff. When I cycle now, my goals are in the 260-270 range, and I care a lot more about bf % and low water retention than I did in my "youth".

So, if you are going to do only one cycle, you will probably quickly lose all of the benefits of the drugs. The only exception I have seen is with deca only cycles. Those guys don't get HUGE, but they can effectively pick up a lacking bodypart (eg., shoulders) and maintain that change when clean. As one compadre put it to me when I complained to him about a deca only cycle I tried about 7 years ago: "quality gains [those you will keep] come slow." That was the last deca-only cycle I ever did.

You have to know your goals (short and long term) and how these drugs can help.

And as a side, I have heard and known many people say they are only going to do one cycle and then quit, but I do not know anybody that did only one cycle. You don't just make muscle and strength gains, you feel awesome and (finally) have almost total control of what you can accomplish. You lose that along with your gains when you quit. That's why guys find it hard to quit. In my experience, guys quit either when they get married and/or when they get a serious injury (or internal complication) and come back with a different attitude.

Great post!

BA

Is it really anticatabolic? I know it is usually used to cut up, but does it help you keep gains after a cycle?

Good post jucieon,
I really enjoyed the read and found somthing out that I have not come across yet. Kinda funny though, I just got through talking about the importance of reading published material and not relying on only one source of info for any "research" that one might be doing in the last post I just submitted. Appreciate the insight.
Later,
Tobey