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  1. #1
    testosterona's Avatar
    testosterona is offline Anabolic Member
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    ***Clomid, is it worth it?***

    this is a quote from hooker's profile.... " Iíve had to remove Clomid from my PCT routine.
    Clomid as of late has fallen out of favor for post-cycle routines, but if you arenít prone to vision problems or emotional issues, then it is just as good as nolvadex for raising testosterone when appropriate doses are used."

    last PCT i used just nolva for PCT. it worked fine. is it even worth spending the $, risking the sides, and taking the clomid for PCT? or is NOLVA just as beneficial as hooker's preference in nolva only PCT. what do you guys think?

  2. #2
    eGGz's Avatar
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    I don't notice any sides from clomid. YMMV

  3. #3
    I_Want_Abs is offline Senior Member
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    my pct will be coming up soon and im not using nolva only clomid and liquidex (which i have used throughout my cycle), i will let you know how it goes test

  4. #4
    bigbouncinballs's Avatar
    bigbouncinballs is offline Senior Member
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    without clomid i'd never come back... but it does make me into a whiny bitch. i swear i cried at a disney movie, in public last PCT...

  5. #5
    symatech's Avatar
    symatech is offline Retired Moderator
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    hhooo i thinks you know wihat i thknk it you chec kth e other threasd on this!! wcichj is just beyond the other frum !

  6. #6
    symatech's Avatar
    symatech is offline Retired Moderator
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    bazzzing tis ht eamjic of copzyt and paste jlloike yhere

    ok check this out, I'm treally drunk and not able to type soi good but listen. IO hve read tsoo many studies saying nolvea is bwtter that clomid for boosting trest levels. I was intrigued oo I ran a nolva only pc t and a clomid anonly pct to tell what hte difference was for me (amd I do this a few wtimes_ after these experoiments I have determined one thig. That is that no,l va only pct doesn't do shit for me. No matter what the studies say I ahve ALWATAZS recovered faster (and I really mean farster) usxing clomid in my pct. It has so convinced me that I will nevelr leave clomid oaut of my post ccyle therapy. this has pbeen a symatech bulletin thanks for listening.

  7. #7
    bigbouncinballs's Avatar
    bigbouncinballs is offline Senior Member
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    wow, ur drunk, that was difficult to read, nevertheless good info

  8. #8
    Smiley619's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigbouncinballs
    without clomid i'd never come back... but it does make me into a whiny bitch. i swear i cried at a disney movie, in public last PCT...

    from your avi i cant picture you cryin at a disney movie.

  9. #9
    eGGz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by symatech
    hhooo i thinks you know wihat i thknk it you chec kth e other threasd on this!! wcichj is just beyond the other frum !

  10. #10
    slitsoul13's Avatar
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    this thread was hilarious hahaha

  11. #11
    Testostack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eGGz
    LMFAO

  12. #12
    hulk100 is offline Junior Member
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    you can use just nolva and its better then clomid some people think that there is a difference between them but its not and i wouldnt take a-dex in pct because its not good to have to low estrogen levels that slows down recovery so its not good to have to high or to low estrogen levels its a balance.

  13. #13
    testosterona's Avatar
    testosterona is offline Anabolic Member
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    ya, i'm probably going to use it this time.

  14. #14
    LORDBLiTZ Guest
    I use nolva only here. But some bro's have reported eye damage with high doses of nolva too. Up wards of 80mg ED. Still safer than clomid IMO.

  15. #15
    Smak is offline AR's Midget Beater
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    No clomid for me ever again.

  16. #16
    guildwars05's Avatar
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    what happened to you smak

  17. #17
    NYGIANTS21's Avatar
    NYGIANTS21 is offline Senior Member
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    What happened to you smak when you ran clomid?

  18. #18
    Testostack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by guildwars05
    what happened to you smak
    Yep, i prefered the french gal pic

  19. #19
    MatrixGuy's Avatar
    MatrixGuy is offline Good things come to those who wait
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    I am in my 3rd week of clomid. No side effects what so ever and no funny emotions.... yet.

  20. #20
    Smak is offline AR's Midget Beater
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYGIANTS21
    What happened to you smak when you ran clomid?
    Nothing. Just don't like the sides that come with it. Here is the PCT that I just used for my last cycle and will continue using.

    PCT
    -----
    nolva 40mg 2 weeks
    nolva 20mg 1 week
    tribex/tribestan 3000mg start last 3 weeks of cycle then finish with
    tribex/tribestan 6000mg weeks 1-3 during PCT

  21. #21
    Smak is offline AR's Midget Beater
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    Quote Originally Posted by Testostack
    Yep, i prefered the french gal pic
    It was removed. It was too sexual arousing for the AR community. But my new one is going to cause the same reaction.

  22. #22
    vein-x's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smak
    No clomid for me ever again.
    What were the sides you mentioned? Also, is running Tribex after Nolva really necessary? Seems like Nolva (and maybe some Clomid) would do the trick. I'm going to look into some Tribex too, so give me some feedback once you're through it all...

  23. #23
    Smak is offline AR's Midget Beater
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    Quote Originally Posted by vein-x
    What were the sides you mentioned? Also, is running Tribex after Nolva really necessary? Seems like Nolva (and maybe some Clomid) would do the trick. I'm going to look into some Tribex too, so give me some feedback once you're through it all...
    Clomid makes me breakout like never before even with taking 2 showers a day and using a scrub brush. I never experience this type of acne on a cycle ever! Also with the high doses you have to use with the possible effect it can have on your vision that right there is enough for me to not use it.

    As with tribex, I like to run it during the last few weeks of my cycle to get my nuts working again as quick as possible. I've even ran it through a whole cycle before and have kept my nuts from shrinking too much. You will benefit from it greatly by increasing your own testosterone . Make sure your buying your tribulus with a extract containing at least 10% Protodiocin (the active saponin responisble for triggering LH/FSH release). Biotes Tribex is what I use and works great. Stay away from the cheap shit like Optimum or any other brand which is like $10. Even though Tribex is around $30, it's worth it! Somapharm Tribestan is another good brand.

  24. #24
    Dalton5 is offline Associate Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smak
    Clomid makes me breakout like never before even with taking 2 showers a day and using a scrub brush. I never experience this type of acne on a cycle ever! Also with the high doses you have to use with the possible effect it can have on your vision that right there is enough for me to not use it.

    As with tribex, I like to run it during the last few weeks of my cycle to get my nuts working again as quick as possible. I've even ran it through a whole cycle before and have kept my nuts from shrinking too much. You will benefit from it greatly by increasing your own testosterone. Make sure your buying your tribulus with a extract containing at least 10% Protodiocin (the active saponin responisble for triggering LH/FSH release). Biotes Tribex is what I use and works great. Stay away from the cheap shit like Optimum or any other brand which is like $10. Even though Tribex is around $30, it's worth it! Somapharm Tribestan is another good brand.
    Wouldnt it make sense that it was just the timing of when you take the clomid? Of course you start the clomid post cycle which is when hormones are gonna be way outta whack therefore causing the breakout, not the clomid. Also, isnt clomid thought to be more stimulating with regards to the HPTA?

  25. #25
    Smak is offline AR's Midget Beater
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalton5
    Wouldnt it make sense that it was just the timing of when you take the clomid? Of course you start the clomid post cycle which is when hormones are gonna be way outta whack therefore causing the breakout, not the clomid. Also, isnt clomid thought to be more stimulating with regards to the HPTA?
    Clomid will cause more acne because you're using a higher dosage then nolva.
    Last edited by Smak; 11-06-2005 at 02:16 PM.

  26. #26
    boywonder10101 is offline Associate Member
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    Hey Smak, where do you get your tribex?

  27. #27
    Smak is offline AR's Midget Beater
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    Quote Originally Posted by boywonder10101
    Hey Smak, where do you get your tribex?
    .m.assnutrition.com

  28. #28
    Keyser Sozey is offline Anabolic Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigbouncinballs
    without clomid i'd never come back... but it does make me into a whiny bitch. i swear i cried at a disney movie, in public last PCT...
    Clomid made me sob like a little girl watching the Lion King with my x.

    Why did they have to kill Mufasa?

    WHY?

  29. #29
    Smak is offline AR's Midget Beater
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keyser Sozey
    Clomid made me sob like a little girl watching the Lion King with my x.

    Why did they have to kill Mufasa?

    WHY?
    awww the beauty of clomid
    Last edited by Smak; 11-06-2005 at 04:06 PM.

  30. #30
    Dalton5 is offline Associate Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smak
    Clomid will cause more acne because you're using a higher dosage then nolva.
    I dont know if that makes sense, I thought it was test that affects sebaceous glands. JMO though...

  31. #31
    Smak is offline AR's Midget Beater
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalton5
    I dont know if that makes sense, I thought it was test that affects sebaceous glands. JMO though...
    This is quoted, but a good read. Read towards the bottom. I highlighted it for you.

    "While practically similar compounds in structure, few people ever really consider Clomid and Nolva to be similar. Its not just a common myth in steroid circles, but even in the medical community. This misconception originates from their completely different uses. Nolvadex is most commonly used for the treatment of breast cancer in women, while clomid is generally considered a fertility aid. In bodybuilding circles, from day one, clomid has generally been used as post-cycle therapy and Nolvadex as an anti-estrogen.

    But as I intend to demonstrate this is in essence the same. I believe the myth to have originated because Nolva is clearly a more powerful anti-estrogen, and the people selling clomid needed another angle to sell the stuff, so it was mostly used as a post-cycle aid. But few users really understand how clomid (and also Nolvadex, logically) works to bring back natural testosterone in the body after the conclusion of a cycle of androgenic anabolic steroids . After a cycle is over, the level of androgens in the body drop drastically. The body compensates with an overproduction of estrogen to keep steroid levels up. Estrogen as well inhibits the production of natural testosterone, and in the period between the return of natural testosterone and the end of a cycle, a lot of mass is lost. So its in everybody's best interest to bring back natural test as soon as humanly possible. Clomid and Nolvadex will reduce the post-cycle estrogen, so that a steroid deficiency is constated and the hypothalamus is stimulated to regenerate natural testosterone production in the body. That's basically how the mechanism works, nothing more, nothing less.

    Both compounds are structurally alike, classified as triphenylethylenes. Nolvadex is clearly the stronger component of the two as it can achieve better results in decreasing overall estrogen with 20-40 mg a day, than clomid can in doses of 100-150 mg a day. A noteworthy difference. Triphenylethylenes are very mild estrogens that do not exert a lot, if any activity at the estrogen receptor, but are still highly attracted to it. As such they will occupy the receptor and keep it from binding estrogens. This means they do not actively work to reduce estrogen in the body like Proviron , Viratase or arimidex would (by competing for the aromatase enzyme), but that it blocks the receptor so that any estrogen in the body is basically inert, because it has no receptor to bind to.

    This has advantages and disadvantages. The disadvantage is that when use is discontinued, the estrogen level is still the same and new problems will develop much sooner. The advantage is that it works much faster and has results sooner than with an aromatase blocker like Proviron or arimidex. Therefor, when problems such as gynocomastia occur during a cycle of steroids one will usually start 20 mg/day of Nolva or 100 mg/day of clomid straight away, in conjunction with some Proviron or arimidex. The proviron or arimidex will actively reduce estrogen while the clomid or Nolvadex will solve your ongoing problem straight away. This way, when use is discontinued there is no immediate rebound.

    So which one should you use? Well personally, I'd have to say Nolvadex. Both as an on-cycle anti-estrogen and a post-cycle therapy. As an anti-estrogen its simply much stronger, demonstrated by the fact that better results are obtained with 20-40 mg than with 100-150 mg of clomid. For post-cycle, this plays a key role as well. It deactivates rebound estrogen much faster and more effective. But most importantly, Nolvadex has a direct influence on bringing back natural testosterone, where as clomid may actually have a slight negative influence. The reason being that Tamoxifen (as in Nolvadex) seems to increase the responsiveness of LH (luteinizing hormone) to GnRH (gonadtropin releasing hormone), whereas clomid seems to decrease the responsiveness a bit1.

    Another noteworthy fact about Nolvadex is that it acts more potently as an estrogen in the liver. As you remember, I mentioned that clomiphene and tamoxifen are basically weak estrogens. Well, tamoxifen is apparently still quite potent in the liver. This offers us the positive benefits of this hormone in the liver, while avoiding its negative effects elsewhere in the body. As such Nolvadex can have a very positive impact on negative cholesterol levels2 in the body, and therefore too should be considered a better choice than clomid. It will not solve the problem of bad cholesterol levels during Steroid use , but will help to contain the problem to a larger degree.

    Another reason why I promote the use of Nolvadex over Clomid post-cycle (as if being 3-4 times stronger and having more of a direct effect on restoring natural test wasn't enough) is because it's a lot safer. Not just because it improves lipid profiles, but also because it simply doesn't have the intrinsic side-effects that Clomid has. Clomid causes more acne for sure, but that's mainly because you need to use a 3-4 times higher dose. But Clomid seems to also affect the eyesight. Long-term clomid therapy causes irreversible changes in eyesight3 in users. Irreversible. For me that alone is reason enough to prefer Nolvadex.

    Lastly, one should be aware that use of these compounds can reduce the gains made on steroids. Nolvadex more so than clomid, simply because it is stronger. Estrogen is responsible for a number of anabolic factors such as increasing growth hormone output, upgrading the androgen receptor and improving glucose utilization. This is why aromatizing steroids like testosterone are still best suited for maximum muscle gain. When reducing the estrogen levels, we therefore reduce the potential gains being made. For this reason one may opt to try clomid during a cycle instead of Nolvadex. Although I would imagine that the problem that needed solved would be of more concern, in which case Nolva remains the weapon of choice. It's a plain fact that there is a high correlation between gains and side-effects. Either you go for maximum gains and tolerate the side-effects, or you reduce the side-effects, and with it the gains. That's life, nothing is free.

    Stacking and Use:

    If problems of Gynocomastia or other estrogen related symptoms tend to pop up during a cycle the use of 20-30 mg of Nolvadex or 100 mg of Clomid daily should easily contain the problem, and be used until a few days after the problem subsides. For best results and the least amount of problems upon cessation it is best stacked with Proviron (50 mg) or arimidex (0.5 mg) for this duration as well. Its not advised that these products be ran concomitantly with the steroid for the entire duration of the stack, as this will reduce your gains. Instead cease the usage of anti-estrogens once the problem is contained, and should the problem resurface, simply recommence the use of the products in the same manner as described above.

    Once a cycle of steroids is concluded one should always initiate a post-cycle therapy to help bring back natural testosterone as soon as possible. This will help you to retain the mass you gained. How this is done depends highly on the type of steroid used. If only orals were used, therapy should start immediately, even the last day of the stack. If short-acting esters or water-based injectables were used, therapy should commence within 4-7 days after last injection, and if long-acting esters were used then it should commence 1.5 to 2 weeks after the last injection was given. The length of the therapy will vary as well, from 3-5 weeks. The longer acting the product was, the longer therapy should be continued to make sure all suppressive factors are cleared before use of Clomid/Nolvadex is discontinued.

    For best results, it is best stacked with HCG (Human Chorionic gonadotrophin), which functions as an LH analog and can help bring testicle size back up. HCG use starts the last week of a cycle, and on from there every 5-6 days (usually 1500-3000 IU) and discontinued 1.5 to weeks prior to the cessation of Nolvadex/clomid. The reason being that HCG itself is also suppressive of natural testosterone and should be out of the body before therapy is over, or it will inhibit natural testicle function. But I can not stress enough that HCG possibly plays a more important role in post-cycle therapy than clomid/Nolvadex. For Clomid and Nolvadex, doses are usually tapered down. Its best to start with 40-50 mg of Nolvadex or 150 mg of Clomid for the first week or the first two weeks, and then finish the program with 20-25 mg of Nolvadex or 100 mg of Clomid for an additional two weeks."

    References

    1 Vermeulen A., Comhaire F., Hormonal effects of an anti-estrogen, tamoxifen, in normal and oligospermic men, Fertil. Ster. 29 (1978) 320-27

    2 Bruning PF, Bronfer JMG, Hart AAM, Jong-Bakker M, tamoxifen, serum lipoproteins and cardiovascular risk, Br. J. Cancer 1988 Oct, 58 (4) 497-9

  32. #32
    bigbouncinballs's Avatar
    bigbouncinballs is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keyser Sozey
    Clomid made me sob like a little girl watching the Lion King with my x.

    Why did they have to kill Mufasa?

    WHY?
    u know it brotha... eyes were all red and swollen walkin outta the movie theater...

  33. #33
    bigbouncinballs's Avatar
    bigbouncinballs is offline Senior Member
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    and yeah, clomid/or lack of test makes me break out horribly for months

  34. #34
    testosterona's Avatar
    testosterona is offline Anabolic Member
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    man, this is a tough decision. you guys aren't making this any easier. lol. so these are the choice:
    nolva 2wks 40mgs 2wks 30mgs
    or
    nolva 4wks 20mgs
    clomid 100mgs 2wks 50mgs 2wks.
    what should i doooooo!?
    cycle is:
    600mgs test e wk 1-12
    100mgs ed prop wk 12-14
    50mgs ed winny wk 10-14

  35. #35
    topvega's Avatar
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    i am gonna run both for pct... along with some igf...

  36. #36
    Dalton5 is offline Associate Member
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    My opinion has now changed.

  37. #37
    testosterona's Avatar
    testosterona is offline Anabolic Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalton5
    My opinion has now changed.
    too? what?

  38. #38
    james21's Avatar
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    if you care about your eyes clomid is not worth it ... everyone if different ,... it could **** them foirever

  39. #39
    james21's Avatar
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    I mean why even risk it when you can do HCG and test boosters etc etc nEVER WORTH IT in my opinion

  40. #40
    Testostack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smak
    It was removed. It was too sexual arousing for the AR community. But my new one is going to cause the same reaction.
    i prefer vanilal better than chocolate, so don't worry, but you look thick bro!!

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