question about test doses

[en1222]

I have done about 8 cycles (I have done test prop about 5 times and Test E 5 times never test cyp)... The last two the results were ok but could have been better.. My diet and cardio is in check..
I am 5'11 195 pounds about 12% BF

I was wondering should i bump my test to 1000mg/wk... I have always been around 600-700 in the past... I was planning on running

1-4 dbol 40mg/ED
1-16 Test cyp 500mg/wk
1-16 Test enan 500mg/wk
1-12 Deca 400mg/wk
1-25 Aromasin
19-22 PCT

What do you guys think? Does this look ok or like overkill?

[big_C]

I think it looks ok, you've done 700 in the past, bumping to 1000 is ok IMO. Why both Enan and Cyp? Cycle looks good though. Oh, and I don't see Nolva in there.

[big N]

first off bro , no offence , but if uve done 8 cycle and only weigh 195 at 5 ft 11 , then something is not right ....serioulsy , with that said .

i would just run one test compound same shit , test e or test c , what happens is the more cycles u run ur body releases a hormone to counter thr growth , and for it to go into homeostasis . that hormone i scalled SHBG , that binds to teh AR rcpetor and makes test less active , thus having to increase ur dosages every so often ,

that is why im an avid preacher of lower dosages ,SHBG levels stay elevated for a very long period of time .. so basicly when u go bakc on there stil elevelated form ur previous cycle,then add an increase form teh current one ..

if u have done 700 no reason to just up to a gram right now , just wait longer between cycles ,and go up to 900 , no higher..but i do fond in unecesary

[en1222]

I think it looks ok, you've done 700 in the past, bumping to 1000 is ok IMO. Why both Enan and Cyp? Cycle looks good though. Oh, and I don't see Nolva in there.

I have the novladex

[en1222]

first off bro , no offence , but if uve done 8 cycle and only weigh 195 at 5 ft 11 , then something is not right ....serioulsy , with that said .

i would just run one test compound same shit , test e or test c , what happens is the more cycles u run ur body releases a hormone to counter thr growth , and for it to go into homeostasis . that hormone i scalled SHBG , that binds to teh AR rcpetor and makes test less active , thus having to increase ur dosages every so often ,

that is why im an avid preacher of lower dosages ,SHBG levels stay elevated for a very long period of time .. so basicly when u go bakc on there stil elevelated form ur previous cycle,then add an increase form teh current one ..

if u have done 700 no reason to just up to a gram right now , just wait longer between cycles ,and go up to 900 , no higher..but i do fond in unecesary

I am 195 now because I had back problems the last two year and worked out on and off.. I was up to 215 a few years back..

[big N]

ah ok i see, well do as i sated in my post above then ..

[Property of Steroid.com]

first off bro , no offence , but if uve done 8 cycle and only weigh 195 at 5 ft 11 , then something is not right ....serioulsy , with that said .

i would just run one test compound same shit , test e or test c , what happens is the more cycles u run ur body releases a hormone to counter thr growth , and for it to go into homeostasis . that hormone i scalled SHBG , that binds to teh AR rcpetor and makes test less active , thus having to increase ur dosages every so often ,

that is why im an avid preacher of lower dosages ,SHBG levels stay elevated for a very long period of time .. so basicly when u go bakc on there stil elevelated form ur previous cycle,then add an increase form teh current one ..

if u have done 700 no reason to just up to a gram right now , just wait longer between cycles ,and go up to 900 , no higher..but i do fond in unecesary

First of all injecting testosterone does not "raise" SHBG as said in the above post, but rather it lowers it quite a bit- roughly by 50% in this study (so does Oral Turinabol, and Winstrol and Proviron, etc...if anyone is interested, those references are in my profile):

J Androl. 1998 Nov-Dec;19(6):761-8.Related Articles, Links

A pharmacokinetic study of injectable testosterone undecanoate in hypogonadal men.

Zhang GY, Gu YQ, Wang XH, Cui YG, Bremner WJ.

National Research Institute for Family Planning (World Health Organization Collaborating Center for Research in Human Reproduction), Beijing, People's Republic of China.

Testosterone undecanoate (TU) provides testosterone (T) replacement for hypogonadal men when administered orally but requires multiple doses per day and produces widely variable serum T levels. We investigated the pharmacokinetics of a newly available TU preparation administered by intramuscular injection to hypogonadal men. Eight patients with Klinefelter's syndrome received either 500 mg or 1,000 mg of TU by intramuscular injection; 3 months later, the other dose was given to each man (except to one, who did not receive the 1,000-mg dose). Serum levels of reproductive hormones were measured at regular intervals before and after the injections. Mean serum T levels increased significantly at the end of the first week, from less than 10 nmol/L to 47.8+/-10.1 and 54.2+/-4.8 nmol/ L for the lower and higher doses, respectively. Thereafter, serum T levels decreased progressively and reached the lower-normal limit for adult men by day 50 to 60. Pharmacokinetic analysis showed a terminal elimination half-life of 18.3+/-2.3 and 23.7+/-2.7 days and showed a mean residence time of 21.7+/-1.1 and 23.0+/-0.8 days for the lower and higher doses, respectively. The area under the serum T concentration-time curve and the T-distribution value related to serum T concentration were significantly higher following the 1,000-mg dose than following the 500-mg dose. The 500-mg dose, when given as the second injection, yielded optimal pharmacokinetics (defined as mean peak T values not exceeding the normal range and persistence of normal levels for at least 7 weeks), suggesting that repeated injections of 500 mg at 6-8-week intervals may provide optimal T replacement. The mean serum levels of estradiol were normalized following the injections, and prolactin levels were normal throughout the study. Significant decrease of serum luteinizing hormone (LH) and follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH) levels was observed, with the decrease in LH levels being more pronounced. There were no significant differences in serum LH and FSH levels between the two doses. Sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) levels before any T therapy were near the upper limit of normal for adult men and were reduced by approximately 50% just prior to the second dose of TU. The decreased SHBG levels produced by the first TU injection could have led to lower peak total T levels and to a more rapid clearance of T following the second TU injection. We conclude that single-dose injections of TU to hypogonadal men can maintain serum T concentration within the normal range for at least 7 weeks without immediately apparent side effects. It is likely that this form of T would require injections only at 6-8-week or longer intervals, not at the 2-week intervals necessary with currently used T esters (enanthate and cypionate). This injectable TU preparation may provide improved substitution therapy for male hypogonadism and, in addition, may be developed as an androgen component of male contraceptives.

PMID: 9876028 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Now, onto the second claim, the laughable idea that SHBG binds to the androgen receptor. Not even close to being true. Androgens bind to the androgen receptor. Makes sense, huh?

Androgens diffuse into the cytoplasm of cells and bind to part of the Androgen Receptor, where they begin gene transcription.

SHBG, on the other hand, binds to both androgens and estrogens (Westphal, 1986. and Siiteri, et al. 1982), and has nothing to do with the androgen receptor; it renders the sex hormone (testosterone or whatever) "bound"
and inactive, however (ibid), while carrying it through the blood. The sex hormone which is bound (testosterone lets say) then can not bind to the androgen receptor. Not only does the SHBG not bind to the androgen receptor as claimed above, but it prevents testosterone from doing it. In short, it does the total opposite of what is claimed above. It totally avoids the androgen receptor! Thats what makes it render testosterone inactive when it is bound to SHBG! If you want to read more about how it works (or want references for my claims), I suggest ignoring the "vet" above and reading this....and you'll see how totally incorrect he is:

From Wikipedia.com:

"Sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) is a glycoprotein that binds to sex hormones, specifically testosterone and estradiol. Other steroid hormones such as progesterone, cortisol, and other corticosteroids are bound by transcortin."

Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_hor...nding_globulin


on SHBG:

http://www.dpcweb.com/documents/news...ts/zb170-b.pdf

(Note to staff: if you are going to edit my post, take out the [font] tags. It looks sloppy otherwise.)

[956Vette]

thanks for posting hooker, and thanks for keeping it professional.

[Lunacy]

Just make sure you diet is in check.

[Property of Steroid.com]

ghandi

[big N]

lol since u edited it or who ever did , i will aswell,

[testosterona]

my input:
test c 900mgs wk1-16
deca 500mgs wk1-13
dbol 35mgs ed wk1-4

THATS A NICE BULKER!! get you back up to wieght for sure.....

[testosterona]

lol u poor soul. u can post all the fancy scientific outdated data that u wish , u cantry and print some bogus book aswell, on shit that u have stollen form otherplaces,dont be sore cuase everyone fkn hates you on every single board, and dont be sore that u got booted form beeing a mod on here aswell , i guess u know better the the GURUS them selves liek L.rea right ? i forgot ur the mighty hooker ....dude ur a joke ..also i bet u know better the nandi and ray bravo right ?? how many time have i put u in ur place at bb4 ?? HUhHhow many ?me and ray bravo ?? untill u couldnt take it and banned us .......lol. tata and kises !

this is a very unproffessional way to post. especially for a vet. hooker has always helped me in the past.

[big N]

In a nutshell, consuming two to three protein-carb meals before lunch and two protein-fat meals after lunch seems a decent "androgen emancipation" strategy. It should keep insulin levels reasonably high while providing both proper substrates to muscle and reducing SHBG. The probable free-Testosterone elevation over time should help the higher circulating insulin that you're cultivating do it's anabolic/ anti-catabolic thing. And let's not forget, early or late, workouts generally enable an additional carb meal post-exercise, so take advantage of them. Getting an insulin spike when Testosterone and GH are also high is like hiring three construction workers at once!

Okay, now that we know how to carefully jack-up insulin regularly enough to keep SHBG from hog tying our precious T, let's briefly talk supplements. Perhaps the most interesting is Avena sativa, or green oat, like that found in Biotest's Tribex-500. Data on this stuff are sparse but there is some suggestion that it combats SHBG. An often touted but unpublished report from the Institute for Advanced Study of Human Sexuality in San Francisco suggests that green-oat extracts do release Testosterone from its binding proteins.

And as a side note, Japanese research suggests increased luteinizing hormone (LH) secretion as well, via interactions with the anterior pituitary gland itself (6, 9). Yeah, these latter studies were done in amenorrheic women, but I told you the data were sparse! Anyhow, the combined effect could well be higher circulating concentrations of free T, even in men.

The other general approach is to simultaneously raise total T and free-T via prohormones. Although unpublished, I've seen first hand that androstenediol, for example, can raise serum Testosterone levels with the bound (SHBG-tied) and unbound levels rising simultaneously. One could very well speculate that a prohormone (or other steroid), combined with green oat supplementation and natural (or unnatural) insulin elevation could be quite the ticket for muscle anabolism.

To summarize our "unleashing" plan, we need to 1) Eat every 2-3 hours, focusing on protein with carbs in the morning and protein with "healthier fats" in the evening 2) Allow for adequate rest — perhaps two "off" days weekly — to prevent over-training 3) Limit high-volume training cycles to just a few weeks, and 4) Possibly consider a 2-4 week course of Avena sativa along with the frequent eating to see if one's prohormones, (etc.) are more effective.

With the person-to-person variation in SHBG being on the order of 40-50% (27), these "unleashing" suggestions may be just the ticket for those of you who have high SHBG and don't even know it. Although the "free hormone hypothesis" debate rages on, it is an interesting scenario — especially if we can control it. If you get less progress from a cycle of androgens than your gloating training buddy, SHBG may be involved. Perhaps the data mentioned here is your missing factor. In any case, the research suggests a new mechanism for the wonders of massive, disciplined eating.

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raybravo12-30-2002, 10:33 AM
Sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) is a glycoprotein synthesized by the liver. Circulating androgen and estrogen concentrations influence SHBG synthesis. The regulation of SHBG synthesis, combined with SHBG's higher affinity for testosterone, impacts bioavailable testosterone levels.

SHBG binds up to 98 percent of the steroid hormones in the blood including 5a-dihydrotestosterone (DHT), testosterone and androstenediol with particularly high affinity, and estradiol and estrone with slightly lower affinity

Male and female children have similar SHBG concentrations until the onset of puberty, when SHBG levels begin decreasing more rapidly in males than in females. Levels are higher in women than in men, due to the higher ratio of estrogens to androgens in women. Levels are especially elevated during late pregnancy and in women taking oral contraceptives.

True androgen status can be assessed either by measuring free testosterone or by calculating the ratio of total testosterone to SHBG, known as the free androgen index (FAI).

Conditions that suggest Low SHBG:
Hormones Hirsutism Because SHBG is often low in women with hirsutism, free testosterone is elevated while the total testosterone concentration is normal. This means the free testosterone portion is responsible for increased male characteristics. Just an increase in free testosterone with no increase in total testosterone can produce significant consequences.

Hypothyroidism Modest reductions in SHBG levels may be encountered in individuals with hypothyroidism.

Hyperprolactinemia Modest reductions in SHBG levels may be encountered in individuals with hyperprolactinemia.

Lab Values
Elevated Cortisol Levels Modest reductions in SHBG levels may be encountered in individuals with Cushing's syndrome.

Metabolic
Problems Caused By Being Overweight SHBG levels respond to extreme changes in body weight, decreasing in obese patients.

Skin-Hair-Nails
Adult Acne Low levels are often found in cases of acne vulgaris.

Uro-Genital
Polycystic Ovary Syndrome (PCOS) Low levels are often found in cases of polycystic ovary syndrome. SHBG is low in about 50% of cases.

Risk factors for Low SHBG:
Drug Side Effects Prescription Drug Side-Effects Modest reductions in SHBG levels may be encountered in individuals receiving glucocorticoids such as prednisone.


Environment / Toxicity
General Detoxification Requirement Aromatase is the enzyme that converts androgen to estrogen. Aromatase is an important target of some environmental chemicals. Some of these compounds inhibit aromatase activity, resulting in a decrease in the level of estrogen or an increase in the level of androgen in cells. Environmental chemicals can also modify the expression of aromatase in various tissues, resulting in a change in the ratio between androgen to estrogen. The compounds that inhibit aromatase or suppress aromatase expression will behave as antiestrogens or androgen-like compounds in vivo. On the other hand, compounds that increase aromatase expression or enhance aromatase activity (or stability) may function as anti-androgens or estrogen-like compounds.

Hormones
High Testosterone Level, Male
High Testosterone Level, Female Elevated testosterone causes SHBG synthesis to decrease, lowering its level in the blood.

Low Progesterone or Estrogen Dominance Elevated estrogen levels stimulate SHBG production, increasing levels in the blood.


Lab Values - Hormones
Very/moderately low SHBG

Counter-indicators:
Elevated SHBG

Laboratory Test Needed
Elevated Insulin Levels Research has discovered that sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG), a relatively unknown blood protein, is a reasonably good indicator of insulin resistance. Low levels of SHBG are consistently linked to high levels of insulin in the body. Sustained high levels of insulin are, in turn, associated with the development of the chronic diseases such as high blood pressure, diabetes and coronary heart disease.

Low SHBG suggests the following may be present:
Drug Side Effects Prescription Drug Side-Effects Modest reductions in SHBG levels may be encountered in individuals receiving glucocorticoids such as prednisone.

Diet Weight Loss As weight loss will improve insulin resistance, and insulin resistance can be measured by low SHBG, weight loss should help normalize low SHBG levels.

Gluten-free Diet Substituting rice for wheat, which generally has a lower amylase content, can raise SHBG levels via lowered insulin levels. However, starches should be restricted when trying to lower insulin levels.

Drug
Conventional Drugs Selection of an OC formulation that maintains increases in SHBG may be important in minimizing androgenic effects in general, and especially important in hyperandrogenic women, who may benefit most from reductions in levels of free testosterone.

SHBG's may be lowered by two of the artificially generated progesterones, norgestrel and norethisterone. If you are a woman who may be susceptible to androgenetic alopecia, that is, hereditary hair loss (female pattern baldness), or you have a naturally low SHBG level, you should avoid any contraceptive pills or hormone replacement therapy that contains synthetic progesterone.

Extract
Not recommended:
DIM (di-indolmethane)/I3C (Indole-3-Carbinol) Aromatase inhibitors like DIM, Indole 3 carbinol, and chrysin should be avoided, as they will enhance any preexisting androgen / estrogen dominance.

Hormone
Estrogen Replacement The use of estrogen to increase SHBG and hence reduce biologically free testosterone may lessen acne and hirsutism. This mechanism is commonly operative in women with Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome. With estrogen replacement, estrogen levels are higher and liver production of SHBG increases. With pregnancy or some birth control pills, you will have high SHBG, and you will have high levels of circulating hormones, but they will be mostly bound (including testosterone).


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[big N]

also uh HOOK here some info that goes to show u how high shbg leevsl efect sh*t and how to try and lower them ........