PCT without Clomid??????

**philiioniyodealio** · 11-14-2005, 11:20 PM

Dont know how many of you here get the mesomorphisis.com newsletter, but i just got mine this evening and its got a pretty intersting article by Anthony roberts. In it he goes into a lotta stuff but among other things he not only suggests refraining from using clomid during pct but almost commands it. What do you guys think about this guys ideas....?

http://www.mesomorphosis.com/article...le-therapy.htm

**thejuiceisloose** · 11-14-2005, 11:26 PM

Im in PCT right now, and to be honest with you Ive recovered pretty nicely, meaning my sex drive has NOT gone away(havent done bloodwork as of yet). And I have followed pheedno's PCT(which consists of ldex + nolva + clomid), so I really dont know about what he is stating not to use clomid

**philiioniyodealio** · 11-14-2005, 11:39 PM

seems weird to me as well. The guy is well educated obviously and most of what he says makes sense, but i just find it hard to believe that all these vets on here and guys that have been on gear for years have been doin it the wrong way.

**Ntpadude** · 11-15-2005, 05:14 PM

Originally Posted by philiioniyodealio

Dont know how many of you here get the mesomorphisis.com newsletter, but i just got mine this evening and its got a pretty intersting article by Anthony roberts. In it he goes into a lotta stuff but among other things he not only suggests refraining from using clomid during pct but almost commands it. What do you guys think about this guys ideas....?

http://www.mesomorphosis.com/article...le-therapy.htm

The bad thing about the mesomorphosis thing is, PCT is the time to start recovering your cholesterol levels, the aromosin he suggests isnt going to protect you from already high levels of estrogen and the anti-aromatase drugs cause you to skyrocket your cholesterol while by comparison, clomid and nolva substantially increase your HDL (good cholesterol) and lower your LDL (bad cholesterol). Also most of us break out with acne worst in PCT, nolva and clomid have properties that reduce acne.

The problem with clomid is so many take the routine of using 300 mg the first dose, and 100 mg for the first week and day after. The manufacturer of clomid states in their warning labels and from their studies, under no circumstances should men or women take more then 50 mg of clomid in a day. I think the issue is, we have problems with people with side effects using Clomid in PCT because they are all OVERDOSING on clomid! PLain and simple.

**fitnessguy** · 11-15-2005, 05:20 PM

Originally Posted by Ntpadude

The bad thing about the mesomorphosis thing is, PCT is the time to start recovering your cholesterol levels, the aromosin he suggests isnt going to protect you from already high levels of estrogen and the anti-aromatase drugs cause you to skyrocket your cholesterol while by comparison, clomid and nolva substantially increase your HDL (good cholesterol) and lower your LDL (bad cholesterol). Also most of us break out with acne worst in PCT, nolva and clomid have properties that reduce acne.

The problem with clomid is so many take the routine of using 300 mg the first dose, and 100 mg for the first week and day after. The manufacturer of clomid states in their warning labels and from their studies, under no circumstances should men or women take more then 50 mg of clomid in a day. I think the issue is, we have problems with people with side effects using Clomid in PCT because they are all OVERDOSING on clomid! PLain and simple.

interesting, good point. i can def. see where overdosing is a problem...

**Mighty Joe** · 11-15-2005, 06:49 PM

I've just finished up a PCT regimine of Nolva/Clomid and recovered nicely! Sex drive is good to go!

MJ

***JohnnyB*** · 11-15-2005, 07:37 PM

Nolva is a good alternitive to clomid, I have read it is better then clomid in get test levels back. Here's what needs to be do for a sucessful PCT, run HCG during the cycle, not after or in the middleand end, but through the cycle from day one. It keep the boys alive, so that's one less thing you need to recover from. By keeping the boys alive, the nolva doesn't have to get the boys to come back to life. So the recovery process is quicker. Always do PCT until your sex drive is back to normal, don't limit PCT to a time frame, you might not have fully recovered in that time frame.

JohnnyB

***JohnnyB*** · 11-15-2005, 07:38 PM

Originally Posted by Ntpadude

The bad thing about the mesomorphosis thing is, PCT is the time to start recovering your cholesterol levels, the aromosin he suggests isnt going to protect you from already high levels of estrogen and the anti-aromatase drugs cause you to skyrocket your cholesterol while by comparison, clomid and nolva substantially increase your HDL (good cholesterol) and lower your LDL (bad cholesterol). Also most of us break out with acne worst in PCT, nolva and clomid have properties that reduce acne.

The problem with clomid is so many take the routine of using 300 mg the first dose, and 100 mg for the first week and day after. The manufacturer of clomid states in their warning labels and from their studies, under no circumstances should men or women take more then 50 mg of clomid in a day. I think the issue is, we have problems with people with side effects using Clomid in PCT because they are all OVERDOSING on clomid! PLain and simple.

Nice post Bro

JohnnyB

**philiioniyodealio** · 11-15-2005, 11:17 PM

so rather than following the general consesus of frontloading and tapering clomid, it would make more sense to just take a consistent 50 mg throughout the pct? (assuming hcg isnt available)

**thejuiceisloose** · 11-16-2005, 09:12 AM

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

Nolva is a good alternitive to clomid, I have read it is better then clomid in get test levels back. Here's what needs to be do for a sucessful PCT, run HCG during the cycle, not after or in the middleand end, but through the cycle from day one. It keep the boys alive, so that's one less thing you need to recover from. By keeping the boys alive, the nolva doesn't have to get the boys to come back to life. So the recovery process is quicker. Always do PCT until your sex drive is back to normal, don't limit PCT to a time frame, you might not have fully recovered in that time frame.

JohnnyB

I must agree with JohnnyB, I ran PCT on my 2nd cycle for about 37 days, until I got my sex drive back. At that time I also had run HCG, like Johnny stated, during my cycle, I recovered very nicely. As for my current cycle that I ended a little while ago, Im finishing up PCT this week, and my sex drive was back from 1 week ago.

***JohnnyB*** · 11-16-2005, 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by philiioniyodealio

so rather than following the general consesus of frontloading and tapering clomid, it would make more sense to just take a consistent 50 mg throughout the pct? (assuming hcg isnt available)

I would add 20mg of nolva to that, clomid makes some of us very emotional, like a 13 year old girl on her period. It's not pretty seeing a 290lb guy crying over something stupid. It happens if you have high estrogen levels, clomid doesn't block estrogen, so you're susceptible to it's side effects. Clomid is good for raise your sperm count, it's what Dr's prescribe to HRT patients that still want to have children

JohnnyB