Never Used, Advice Please On This Cycle

**SanDiegoNewbie** · 05-16-2002, 02:11 PM

First a little background: I am 27, 6'4" 230 lbs. I have always been a lean basketball player and never really much of a bodybuilder--used to have a really hard time putting on weight. last year I had the last of 4 successive knee surgeries (2 ACLs and a cartilege implant) Now my leg is much smaller than the other, and I'm having a lot of trouble getting size back. The next couple months Im not working, just studying for the california bar exam so I figured I'd spend a lot of time in the gym listening to bar review tapes on my walkman with the end result being passing the bar, getting the muscle back in my leg and looking good. I was thinking 8 weeks of Deca at 250mg a week, especially because I read it was good on joints. My plan is to just take the trolley down to TJ each week and inject down there--that way no worries about laws, but that pretty much restricts me to weekly injections, no orals or frequent injections. My brother has done several cycles and reccomends adding sustanon to combat deca dick and give more size and also that I should double the dose so I'm doing 500mg of each for 8 weeks because he says the stuff in TJ pharmacies is weak and needs to be doubled. Is he right? what would you reccomend being that this is a one time deal and has to be injections once a week. I'll do Clomid three weeks after last injection, do I need to worry about hair loss, gyno and other sides if I'm just doing this one cycle? I already have a pretty high hair line and my hair is pretty thin. I've read so much contradicting information now that I feel like I really just need some advice from real people with real experiences. Also, what types of gains can I expect from this being that I'm 6'4" 230, but with a bit of a gut right now from the inactivity due to surgery. Thanks for any advice

**Billy Boy** · 05-16-2002, 04:11 PM

Don't use deca on its own.

Go for deca 400mg per week for 8 weeks and Sust 500mg per week for 8 weeks.Then the clomid

You will get good gains and if you get your diet right you will add on around 10lbs +

***JohnnyB*** · 05-16-2002, 04:21 PM

SDN welcome to AR,

You might want to pm Billy to see what he meant.

JohnnyB

**SanDiegoNewbie** · 05-17-2002, 07:41 AM

I'm thinking now maybe to go with 400mg of the Deca for 8 weeks and 250mg of the sust. As a first time user I'm hesitant to go with too much and from what I've read I should see good gains from this having never used gear. The 250 of sust should be enough to combat anything like deca dick, right? I keep reading that a lot of firt time users see good results with just 200mg deca or 250mg sust--no stacking. I don't want to go too over board here. With the amount of time I plan on spending in the Gym and a highly disciplined diet, I think this will work well without subjecting me to more of the side effects I could see at higher doses. Please let me know your thoughts though--just remember, first time user and my goal is more of a muscular basketball build as opposed to a bodybuilder build. I plan on heading down to TJ either this afternoon or tomorrow to get this program started. Thanks in advance--this site has been a great resource.

**tryingtogetbig** · 05-17-2002, 07:50 AM

Hey bro, while there is nothing wrong with lower doses for first time users, keep in mind there isn't anything that's going to make you look like a body builder in one cycle - I wish there was!!! The doses BillyBoy is suggesting are still fairly low doses and you really shouldn't have too many sides. I am doing 400mg/wk of test en and 400mg/deca right now. This is my first "real" cycle as well, and trust me, the changes aren't what you would call "shocking." It seems to be just the right amount to aid my weight training with a little kick. Just wanted to throw my 2 cents in - IMO, if you are gonna do it, at least do enough to get a few gains out of it bro.

Oh yeah, I haven't had any sides at all. Just starting 4th week and starting to notice some really good pumps while lifting. The other thing I have noticed is that my soreness seems to be mininmal in the days after training, and that's with pushing myself harder than I ever have while lifting.

Good Luck.

peace,

ttgb

**BASK8KACE** · 05-17-2002, 09:05 AM

Tyingtogetbig, how many calories are you eating per day? What's you're current weight. I thought the results would be shocking n a cycle of what you described, if you're eating right. Let me know more, please.

**tryingtogetbig** · 05-17-2002, 10:06 AM

Originally posted by BASK8KACE
Tyingtogetbig, how many calories are you eating per day? What's you're current weight. I thought the results would be shocking n a cycle of what you described, if you're eating right. Let me know more, please.

Sure bro, calories between 3-4000 a day. I am having to choke down food to get this many. I have had a clean diet for several years, so eating clean and getting this many calories has been a challenge. A couple of days I came up around 2500 calories, but I realized it and tried to make up for it in the days following. Protien has been at least 200 a day. I try to get as many as I can from food, but on days where I am coming up below or right at 200 I throw in a extra couple of cans of tuna and drink an extra protien shake (or two). Some days of protien I have been able to get 300 - but it has taken a lot of discipline for me to learn to eat big.

My stats:
5'11", starting weight 180 lbs - current weight 189 lbs, bf starting 14-15%, bf now still around 15% but maybe a little more. I have been really eating clean and not really getting any fatter (yet).

I am doing tt deca 300 la - (I have extra of this so I have been doing a little less than 2cc a week so 500-600mg/wk), brovel t200 @ 400mg a week. I jump started with Russian dbol at 35mg/day for a little over 2 weeks. I decided to finish up with winny so I cut my dbol short to give the liver plenty of time to heal. Winny will be weeks 8-12 @ 50mg/day.

As far as results not being shocking, I am into week 4, up 9 lbs of solid muscle and noticing my strength increase each week thus far, so I am very happy. Starting to notice some slight "bulges" of muscles that I have never had before, but nothing drastic. I have always been able to cut, but have always had a hard time bulking. So, again, 9 lbs thus far is music to my ears. But, 9lbs really isn't that a big of a deal. If I was only going to gain 9 lbs total while making a pin cushion out of my ass, I don't know if it would be worth the trouble. That's the main reason why I suggested to SanDiegoNewbie to not be afraid of a little higher dosage than what he was thinking. Some people think they are going to inject 1cc of gear and then go look in mirror and be huge. That's not really the case. Plus, he's driving down to Mex once a week. All that trouble and I would want to make sure I did gain something out of it!

But again, I encourage everyone to do what they are comfortable doing. You will get comfortable by doing tons and tons of research. No one can tell you if a low dosage will do you good, or no good at all. Only by experimenting will YOU figure out your own body.

Hope I answered your questions.

peace,

ttgb

**BASK8KACE** · 05-17-2002, 12:12 PM

Thanks, man. That will help a lot. I already feel like I'm stuffed at 2500--the rare times I hit 3000 are rough. I haven't started my first cycle yet. Let's see what happens after I do. (It's a test only cycle).

**SanDiegoNewbie** · 05-17-2002, 01:48 PM

Well I think I've done all the research I can--I'm going to head down to TJ and scope it out. The determining factor may just be how expensive everything is. I'll let you guys know what happens--thanks for all the input.

**SanDiegoNewbie** · 05-17-2002, 08:08 PM

It's official, the juice is loose. Just got back from TJ--man that place is a nightmare. Should go much smoother next time though. Most of those pharmacies are total scams. I saw Sust 250 anywhere from 10 to 25 bucks and the deca was ridiculous--most places want to sell you a organon box with two wyringes, each with 50 mg for 25 to 35 bucks. That means 8 needles in my ass just to get 400 mg and paying $100 to do it. Why am I crossing the border to pay more cash? Finally, I found a pharmacy about a block away from the main strip. She had 200mg bottles of Deca that she sold me for 10 bucks. I ended up doing 400mg Deca in one ass cheek and a Sustanon 250 in the other. She got me for $15 on the Sust, but oh well, it was the onyl place I had been able to find deca at a decent price without having to turn my ass into a pin cushion. The best part though was walking across the border and not sweating a thing because it was already in me. I may be full of crap, but I swear I can already feel it just a few hours later--tons of energy and horny as can be. Good thing I didn't start feeling this way until the U.S. side--I could have made a huge mistake in one of those TJ nudie bars--man those places are scary!