Deca versus Testosterone

[hulkrager]

Hi Guys,

Quick question. I have noticed with my steroid use over the years that I tend to grow a lot better when using deca at a dose of 400mg per week than when I use an equal or greater dose of testosterone(Sustanon). I even went to the measure of using deca alone and then testosterone(Sustanon) alone for 10 weeks and found that I gained 3 times the size on the deca. Is anyone else like this or am I abnormal? Do some people require more anabolic substances and others more androgenic? What is going on?

[hosam4ever]

bcoz the anabolic to androginic ratio in deca is more than in test so its more anabolic than androginic but test is same androginic as anabolic

[hulkrager]

In every other post I've read most people claim much better size gains from test? Why am I gaining more with deca? I know what you are saying but this doesn't match with other people's results.

[hosam4ever]

off coarse u know every body is different but i think that most europeans & amiricans look to test as the most powerfull drug out there but this is not true bcoz deca for example is more anabolic than test which means it will lead 2 a greater size than test but also it depends on how u react to the drug

[MASTER]

Everyones different bro, there are so many variables as well, receptors, quality of the gear etc!

[alwayson]

interesting...

anyone else that agrees with hulkrager?

[Prada]

Also the quality of your gear is a factor.

[niXon)(]

deca increases bone desity...makes you bigger...

[hosam4ever]

increase denesty of bones dosent mean ull have bigger bones just its denisty only but it still have the same size

[niXon)(]

ok then i said it wrong...here this is where i'm getting it from

(originally posted by AnimalMass)

While injecting test increases protein synthesis by roughly 50 times, depending on dose and time, most bodybuilders forget that it will reduce collagen synthesis by more than 50% -- more like 80%, giving you the collagen synthesis rate of a senior citizen. Since collagen makes up tendons, bros are very prone to injury if they continue to lift very heavy, unless they cycle off T and let their collagen synthesis get back to normal. It's like having the skeletal muscle of a gorilla with the tendons of a very old man.

Winstrol increases collagen synthesis. It will give you bigger tendons. However, your body compensates for this by making them more brittle, weaker, and more prone to injury. I can't tell you how many bros work out anaerobically and become injured while on winstrol. Guys who lift in the 1-5 rep range while on winstrol, to baseball players who sprint all out from a stationary position -- winstrol should be the LAST drug they choose. Most of them like winstrol because they don't get the weight gain from it but it is very detrimental to bros who train for any sport anaerobically. Tendons tear easily on it.

Also, the drugs I mention increase collagen synthesis while also increasing collagen cross-linking integrity, making for a much stronger tendon.

Winstrol, on the other hand, will dramatically increase collagen syn, but ironically it decreases collagen cross-linking integrity, thus making a much weaker tendon.

You can plan a cycle of AAS which will increase collagen synthesis and skeletal muscle growth at the same time. The key is the drug(s) you choose.

Deca, Equipoise, Anavar, and Primobolan will ALL increase skeletal muscle while at the same time dramatically increase collagen syn and bone mass and density, leaving you with a substantially reduced chance of becoming injured than if you choose to use AAS like sus, cyp, or enth.

While testosterone will increase bone mass and density, even at supra-physiological levels, the result is weaker tendons due to inhibition of collagen syn.

To plan a cycle where the goal is to increase skeletal muscle mass/strength while at the same time increase joint/tendon/ligament strength, enough to keep up with the dramatic increase in skeletal muscle, you must choose drugs like Eq, Deca, Anavar, or Primo as the base of your cycle. Testosterone and its esters can be added to your cycle to keep levels within a 'normal' physiological range (ie, 100-200 mg/wk) but must not go above this. Since drugs like eq, deca, anavar and primo will reduce endogenous, natural levels of test, these levels may be maintained with exogenous test in the 100-200 mg/wk range. Test at this dose will not inhibit collagen syn, but paradoxically, will help increase it. It is when exogenous testosterone is used > 200 mg/wk that collagen syn is inhibited.

Deca @ 3 mg/kg a week(about 270 mg/wk for a 200 lb male) will increase procollagen III levels by 270% by week 2. Procollagen III is a primary indicator used to determine the rate of collagen syn. As you can see, deca is a very good drug at giving you everything you want -- an increase in collagen syn, an increase in skeletal muscle, and increases in bone mass and density. The one thing it does not give you is wood.

Primobolan, @ 5 mg/kg, will increase collagen synthesis by roughly 180% -- less than deca and equipoise but still substantial.

Equipoise @ 3 mg/kg will increase procollagen III by approximately 340% -- slightly better than deca.

Oxandrolone has over a hundred studies documenting its effectiveness at treating patients needing rapid increases in collagen syn to enhance he****g.

These drugs have longer half-lives than most other AAS, so this should be considered when timing your post cycle Clomid use. Here they are:

Deca: 15 days Equipoise: 14 days Primobolan: 10.5 days

Anavar has a half-life of only 8 hours so it should not pose a problem.

GH is probably the most remarkable drug at increasing collagen synthesis. It increases collagen syn in a dose dependant manner -- the more you use, the more you will increase collagen syn. It has also demonstrated this ability in short and long term studies. From what I've read, hGH at 6 iu/day increased the collagen deposition rate by around 250% in damaged collagen structures. This result indicates that the increased biomechanical strength of wounds to collagen structures treated with biosynthetic human growth hormone was produced by an increased deposition of collagen in the collagen structures.

Eq, primo, anavar, and deca are all good -- they increase several biomakers of collagen syn -- ie, type III, II, I, procollagen markers. GH just seems to do so most dramatically.

Use of any of these drugs @ supra-physiological levels with a maintenance dose of test will increase collagen syn while at the same time increase skeletal muscle mass. Skeletal muscle mass gains will not be as dramatic as with large testosterone doses but you have to weigh the risk/reward basis for yourself. Also, these drugs do not satisfy the libido like testosterone, but that is not the point of this thread. It is only to demonstrate that you can increase skeletal muscle and collagen syn at the same time with certain AAS -- the decision is up to you.

[hulkrager]

Thanks for the info guys. That is a great help.

[scotttiger54]

im like you bro. always saw great gains from deca as well as deca only. luckily i don't suffer from deca dick. i won't suggest deca only cyles, but if your body doesn't respond negatively to it then have at it bro. just as a precaution, i have done hcg twice a wk the whole time throughout deca only cycles with great success

[hulkrager]

That's interesting scottiger54. Maybe people should start wraping deca up a bit more instead of rubbishing it all the time. With the post by nixon it sounds like everyone should be tinkering with deca to be able to increase their training intensity without injury.

[arnold_of_malta]

is 400mg deca weekly eneff for me 190 pounds 5 feet 7 ??????? i am going to add 500mg test e with it and anadrol to kick start the cycle! its my 4th cycle i use 300mg deca last time i used deca this time shall i try 400mg or i need more then 400mg weekly?>

[tommy39]

That's interesting scottiger54. Maybe people should start wraping deca up a bit more instead of rubbishing it all the time. With the post by nixon it sounds like everyone should be tinkering with deca to be able to increase their training intensity without injury.

Deca has givin me great results with strength and size but does NOTHING
for my joints or tendons. Some swear it does but i feel absolutley no joint
benefit at all. It does not bloat me either so I dont know. I love it for the pump and strength and I always put on good weight.

[hulkrager]

Are you sure that it is legit deca. My body goes numb when I take it and I don't feel any pain or cracking of the joints at all.