Tbol and Proviron: ok to take both orals?

[ZIA1]

I'm taking 75mg of Proviron but I want to add tbol to my cycle. I am also taking Eq 600mg/wk and Prop 500mg/wk. Would I need to reduce the proviron in order to incorporate tbol?

[Smak]

Run the proviron at the end and tbol at the beginning.

[ZIA1]

Run the proviron at the end and tbol at the beginning.

Well, that's a problem. I already started my cycle and just came across the tbol today. I've been on proviron for about 2 weeks already. Could I simply stop the proviron and take the tbol and then start the proviron up again at the end?

[ZIA1]

Anyone else?

[vitor]

Yust run them both at the same time, no problem!

[Anabolios]

yeah proviron is not known to be toxic to the liver so youll be fine bro! at 75mg/ed ur libido is gonna be off the walls and with the test! good luck you should get really solid gains from that cycle

[Seattle Junk]

Make sure to take Milk Thistle with your orals. Liver protectant. I love tbol, good stuff. No water, just solid gains.

[ZIA1]

yeah proviron is not known to be toxic to the liver so youll be fine bro! at 75mg/ed ur libido is gonna be off the walls and with the test! good luck you should get really solid gains from that cycle

Does proviron start working almost immediately or does it need to build up in the system? I've been on it for about a week or so (10 days I think) and my libido is up but not off the walls.

[MASTER]

should be fine bro

[marcus300]

i wouldnt take proviron with your cycle, use it at the end, proviron has the ability to lock into a receptor and not let anything else into it, no point in taking gear if it does that,

[ZIA1]

i wouldnt take proviron with your cycle, use it at the end, proviron has the ability to lock into a receptor and not let anything else into it, no point in taking gear if it does that,

Anyone else agree with this?

[Maetenloch]

i wouldnt take proviron with your cycle, use it at the end, proviron has the ability to lock into a receptor and not let anything else into it, no point in taking gear if it does that,

Proviron has a high affinity for receptors, but it also activates them so this is a good thing. However most of the proviron you take is tied up by SHBG and much of the remainder is enzymatically deactivated in skeletal muscle through a DHT-feedback mechanism. The main benefit of proviron is that it 'sacrifices' itself on SHBG and aromatase, leaving other steroids free and preventing the formation of estrogen.

[Xtralarg]

Proviron has a high affinity for receptors, but it also activates them so this is a good thing. However most of the proviron you take is tied up by SHBG and much of the remainder is enzymatically deactivated in skeletal muscle through a DHT-feedback mechanism. The main benefit of proviron is that it 'sacrifices' itself on SHBG and aromatase, leaving other steroids free and preventing the formation of estrogen.

Can you explain this in laymans terms?

[H BOMB]

i only run prov when i am not running test.

just run 10-20mg of nolva a day depending on how sensitive you are. or you could go with adex or aromasin if you have access

[MASTER]

Can you explain this in laymans terms?

Basically it helps free up test, so its usable

[BajanBastard]

i wouldnt take proviron with your cycle, use it at the end, proviron has the ability to lock into a receptor and not let anything else into it, no point in taking gear if it does that,

Care to explain?

Use the proviron it's one of the best synergistic AAS there is.

[marcus300]

Care to explain?

Use the proviron it's one of the best synergistic AAS there is.

i know there are different theorys concerning proviron and i have read afew of them, i got my information from Paul Borreson who was a biochemist and a pharmacologist he studied the function of receptor sites and there use with steriods , he told me to use it 10 days before a contest to dry me out and hardend me up, he said not to use it with a cycle because it locks out all other steriods when it binds with a receptor, now i did try both ways and got to say i had better gains without it, there are always conflicting thoerys concerning steriods so best bet is to try it and see if it works or not works for you, but i know what i would do

[MASTER]

i know there are different theorys concerning proviron and i have read afew of them, i got my information from Paul Borreson who was a biochemist and a pharmacologist he studied the function of receptor sites and there use with steriods, he told me to use it 10 days before a contest to dry me out and hardend me up, he said not to use it with a cycle because it locks out all other steriods when it binds with a receptor, now i did try both ways and got to say i had better gains without it, there are always conflicting thoerys concerning steriods so best bet is to try it and see if it works or not works for you, but i know what i would do

yeh its all trial and error, no doctors are actually going to research the sorts of cycle we all do, because its wouldnt be "responsible" research, plus everyone reacts differently anyway!

[marcus300]

yeh its all trial and error, no doctors are actually going to research the sorts of cycle we all do, because its wouldnt be "responsible" research, plus everyone reacts differently anyway!

fine words JC, this is the trouble we are all up against, i do trust what Paul said he was the steriod doctor to so many top pro's but like we have said try it for yourself thats the best way to solve it, costly but will solve the problem

[BajanBastard]

i know there are different theorys concerning proviron and i have read afew of them, i got my information from Paul Borreson who was a biochemist and a pharmacologist he studied the function of receptor sites and there use with steriods , he told me to use it 10 days before a contest to dry me out and hardend me up, he said not to use it with a cycle because it locks out all other steriods when it binds with a receptor, now i did try both ways and got to say i had better gains without it, there are always conflicting thoerys concerning steriods so best bet is to try it and see if it works or not works for you, but i know what i would do

That's the part i don't get. It's not like the ARs just sit there and get clogged with proviron or something. The AR is constantly being used and replenished and using steroids increase the numbers. If i remember correctly proviron does not bind to the AR that well anyway. Testosterone , nandrolone , methenolone, trenbolone all bind to the AR better than proviron.

[marcus300]

That's the part i don't get. It's not like the ARs just sit there and get clogged with proviron or something. The AR is constantly being used and replenished and using steroids increase the numbers. If i remember correctly proviron does not bind to the AR that well anyway. Testosterone, nandrolone, methenolone, trenbolone all bind to the AR better than proviron.

yes i have read this also but ive looked back to see if i can find what paul said and i have looked at his underground video and he mentions it there, he explains it like this - there are many different steriods and they respond differently to our AR by this i mean how quickley get there, how long there stay there when locked it and how well they lock in, proviron when used locks in and will not let any other steriod into it while it is there, proviron is ideal for contest prep to lock out all other steriods and make you harder and lose the water.
like i said i did try both ways and i built far better and more muscle without it but for pct or contest it amazing stuff, we can read what we like and listen to alsorts of different reports but i feel we have to try both ways to find out what works for you, this is for all steriods/cycles/stacks

[BajanBastard]

yes i have read this also but ive looked back to see if i can find what paul said and i have looked at his underground video and he mentions it there, he explains it like this - there are many different steriods and they respond differently to our AR by this i mean how quickley get there, how long there stay there when locked it and how well they lock in, proviron when used locks in and will not let any other steriod into it while it is there, proviron is ideal for contest prep to lock out all other steriods and make you harder and lose the water.like i said i did try both ways and i built far better and more muscle without it but for pct or contest it amazing stuff, we can read what we like and listen to alsorts of different reports but i feel we have to try both ways to find out what works for you, this is for all steriods/cycles/stacks

Uhhhhh. I'm still not following bro. First the AR just doesn't sit waiting to get used. They are constantly being used and destroyed. So there is no AAS 'waiting line' for the AR. As i said before proviron does not 'lock in' to the AR very well, in fact most other injectable AAS bind better to the AR than proviron. Secondly proviron binds to SHBG better that any other AAS so in combination with other AAS, there wouldn't be alot a active proviron to 'lock out' the other drugs which bind to the AR better in the first place. I'm not calling you or your former mentor out but i think he was dead wrong on this one.

[j martini]

yes i have read this also but ive looked back to see if i can find what paul said and i have looked at his underground video and he mentions it there, he explains it like this - there are many different steriods and they respond differently to our AR by this i mean how quickley get there, how long there stay there when locked it and how well they lock in, proviron when used locks in and will not let any other steriod into it while it is there, proviron is ideal for contest prep to lock out all other steriods and make you harder and lose the water.
like i said i did try both ways and i built far better and more muscle without it but for pct or contest it amazing stuff, we can read what we like and listen to alsorts of different reports but i feel we have to try both ways to find out what works for you, this is for all steriods/cycles/stacks

Yeah i have heard this theory myself, my opinion of it is it is rubbish, maybe people notice more gains without it in a cycle because they retain less water the same as anti E' but water retention is only temporary artificial gains anyway.

The theory makes no sense chemically, are through common sense surely if it locks into receptors which are continuosly being renewed which you would think would make it impossible to lock on to receptors, but anyway if it did lock on to receptors surely gains on any steroid cycle with proviron as an addition would yeild zero gains given that proviron is not very anabolic .

Personally i have being using proviron for the first time ever for about the lasy 6 weeks and have made good gains my gains had ceased before adding the proviron as i had being on cyclefor a while.

By the way i dont take anything, any so called steroid guru says that seroiously anyway. And Paul Borreson was known as being a bullshit artist from time to time especially in regards to his own physique and claiming that he worked with Dorian Yates when Dorian said he had never even met the guy.

Just because a guy writes a few books claims to have worked with a few pros(most of which deny even working with him, and those that did work with him said it was on a very limited capacity) doesnt necessarily mean he knows what he is talking about.

[*Narkissos*]

Care to explain?

Use the proviron it's one of the best synergistic AAS there is.

Ditto.

Marcus your mentor's theory is like a seive:

full of holes

[Maetenloch]

Can you explain this in laymans terms?

Well proviron is DHT-based and so basically acts like DHT does in the body. DHT is a metabolite of testosterone and is about 4 times stronger than test. Proviron is strongly attracted to SHBG, androgen receptors, and aromatase even more so than test or other steroids . So it's sort of a super-steroid in this sense. However, very little is active in skeletal muscle since the enzyme 3a-HSD deactivates it there. So proviron is like a super-androgen that is active everywhere EXCEPT for muscles - some of these areas are good like neurological tissue and some are bad like scalp tissue. It's effect in the brain and nervous system is why it increases strength and libido. On the other hand its effects on the scalp (for those with the right genes) is responsible for male pattern baldness. Since it is so strongly bound to SHBG, it keeps test from being bound, essentially raising free test levels. Furthermore by binding to the aromatase enzyme more strongly than test (but without being able to be converted to estrogen), it prevents the accumulation of estrogen from high levels of test. By itself proviron is a very weak anabolic , but it makes other anabolics much more effective.

[marcus300]

Uhhhhh. I'm still not following bro. First the AR just doesn't sit waiting to get used. They are constantly being used and destroyed. So there is no AAS 'waiting line' for the AR. As i said before proviron does not 'lock in' to the AR very well, in fact most other injectable AAS bind better to the AR than proviron. Secondly proviron binds to SHBG better that any other AAS so in combination with other AAS, there wouldn't be alot a active proviron to 'lock out' the other drugs which bind to the AR better in the first place. I'm not calling you or your former mentor out but i think he was dead wrong on this one.

i have also read this many times aswell as the other thoery, this is the problem when we are using chemicals within the body, none of us are experts we are constantly learning, all i can say is ive looked back over my cycles and ive made better gains without it, and i dont mean water weight, if people happy using it within a cycle thats fine but there are two thoerys with proviron and me personaly would take the advice from someone who study AR and there function with AAS, best bet is try and see if it works for you. thanks for the discussion

[marcus300]

Yeah i have heard this theory myself, my opinion of it is it is rubbish, maybe people notice more gains without it in a cycle because they retain less water the same as anti E' but water retention is only temporary artificial gains anyway.

The theory makes no sense chemically, are through common sense surely if it locks into receptors which are continuosly being renewed which you would think would make it impossible to lock on to receptors, but anyway if it did lock on to receptors surely gains on any steroid cycle with proviron as an addition would yeild zero gains given that proviron is not very anabolic .

Personally i have being using proviron for the first time ever for about the lasy 6 weeks and have made good gains my gains had ceased before adding the proviron as i had being on cyclefor a while.

By the way i dont take anything, any so called steroid guru says that seroiously anyway. And Paul Borreson was known as being a bullshit artist from time to time especially in regards to his own physique and claiming that he worked with Dorian Yates when Dorian said he had never even met the guy.

Just because a guy writes a few books claims to have worked with a few pros(most of which deny even working with him, and those that did work with him said it was on a very limited capacity) doesnt necessarily mean he knows what he is talking about.

i can see how you can say its rubbish, none of us can say this! your no expert all we can do is listen and read all the articles on the subject and make our minds up ourselves with experience from using them, you know when you go to the doctors one says use this drug for the complaint and another says use something different, also PB wasnt the only one saying this about proviron,
as for PB is a bullshiter thats fine its your opinion but this shows how blinkered you are, you should always listen to all thoerys, PB was a very intelligent man even the peolpe who didnt like his methods said this this, he also change how we medicate and look after aids victims with his work on receptors sites and there function with steriods , and the reason why Dorian said he never had anything to do with him is Paul was very open and when he did interviews he mention Dorians name aswell as others and the people at the top who were sponsering him didnt like it,think about it its not hard to see why!! PB was Kerry Kayes partner in the supplement company and Dorian was getting involve so trust me they all knew each other, KK and DY pushed Pb out of the company when he broke his back,
personaly i am very open minded on everybodys view on AAS because none of us are experts its a learning experience with the our own experiences with AAS,
if it works for you keep on using it but you should look at both theorys before saying strange statments

[j martini]

Im not saying he didnt know what he was talking about, all im saying is i would not take anything anyone says literally no matter who they are.

Take special attention of the part where trevor smith states that paul never worked with any of the guys he said that he did, and Ian Harrison who knows many of these guys backed him up.

Here is an interview with Ian Harrison and Trevor Smith.
Trevor Smith if he was still alive would give you a different explanation about what happened in regards to chemical nutrition and Paul Borreson leaving the company.

There is always two sides to the story and i know which side i believe, Paul borreson lied, exagerated the truth to many times for me to believe his version of events.

Interview with Trevor Smith and
Ian Harrison of Biohazard USA
by Jason Mueller

As many of you are probably aware, Biohazard USA recently split from Paul Borreson. I was informed of this the morning of Tuesday, October 19, after reading several emails directing me to Biohazard's web site. There I found a shocking article alleging a long pattern of lies and deception on the part of Paul Borreson, written by his former partners in the Biohazard USA venture. After reading this article, I immediately called Trevor Smith, the man behind the scenes at Biohazard USA. The following interview is a result of my conversation with Trevor. Although our initial conversation was brief, perhaps 20 minutes, I was left with a few indelible impressions. Trevor struck me as a man of great integrity. I expected to speak with a man filled with rage and venom, lashing out at Borreson at every opportunity. What I heard was a man who was deeply hurt, saddened by the events that had transpired. His primary concern, after the obvious welfare of his family, was moving past these events and developing Biohazard USA into the company he always has envisioned. We'll let Trevor and Ian tell the rest of the story.

JM: I know a lot of people have probably read the article on Biohazard and we're reprinting it at the end of this interview. What can the both of you add to the article in regards to what's happened between Paul and yourselves?

TREVOR: BASICALLY THAT WE WERE LED TO BELIEVE MANY THINGS AND THAT 99.9% OF WHAT WE WERE TOLD WAS NOT THE TRUTH.

IAN: PAUL BORRESEN IS A VERY INTENSE PERSON WITH A GREAT DEAL OF KNOWLEDGE, BUT DUE TO HIS EXTREME ATTEMPTS TO DO 1000 THINGS AT ONCE HE SPREAD HIMSELF SO THIN THAT HE ENDED UP IN A VERY MIXED UP STATE MENTALLY AND PHYSICALLY AND IN HIS PERSONAL LIFE, SO HE WINDS UP LETTING DOWN THE VERY PEOPLE THAT STOOD BY HIM AND LITERALLY HELD HIM UP DURING HIS BAD TIMES.

JM: Can you tell me a little bit about how you both came to be involved with Paul?

TREVOR: I CONTACTED PAUL IN THE FALL OF 1998 AFTER READING HIS FIRST BOOK. I WANTED TO EXCHANGE IDEAS ON WAYS TO USE PHARMACEUTICALS SINCE I WAS ABOUT TO EMBARK ON MY FIRST COURSE. BASICALLY THIS ESCALATED TO HIM WANTING ME TO FORM BIOHAZARD USA. AFTER RESEARCHING THE PRODUCTS AND TRYING THEM OUT, I REALIZED THAT THEY WERE UNIQUE AND THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE WOULD BENEFIT FROM THEM.

IAN: I’VE KNOWN PAUL BORRESEN FOR APPROXIMATELY 6 YEARS AND SEEN MANY OF HIS UPS AND DOWNS. I GENUINELY LIKE THE REAL PAUL BORRESEN, BUT THE REAL PAUL BORRESEN (WHO HAS GREAT POTENTIAL MENTALLY) IS SEEN LESS AND LESS THESE DAYS. HIS BASIC MORAL PRINCIPLES, WHICH HE SWEARS TO LIVE BY AND EXPECTS HIS FRIENDS TO ALSO, ARE NOT AS TRUTHFUL AS HE MAY THINK. I FIRST GOT TO KNOW PAUL WHEN HE AND ANOTHER SUPPLEMENT SUPPLIER FOUNDED CHEMICAL NUTRITION. I THEN SAW THE WHOLE FEUD BETWEEN KERRY KAYES AND PAUL BORRESEN TAKE PLACE (SEEING BOTH SIDES OBJECTIVELY). BASICALLY KERRY HELPED FINANCE PAUL’S IDEAS AND CHEMICAL WAS BORN. IT ENDED THE SAME WAY OUR RELATIONSHIP ENDED WITH HIM AND FOR THE VERY SAME REASONS.

JM: I've read a lot of what Paul has written and watched one of his seminars. He seemed very intelligent and inspirational. I know now that he's claiming to have a Ph.D. and refers to himself as Dr. Paul BORRESEN. Do you have any knowledge as to the legitimacy of the degrees he claims?

TREVOR: NO THAT IS THE PROBLEM. WE WENT AROUND PROMOTING HIM AS A PHARMACOLOGIST AND BIOCHEMIST AND NOW A DOCTOR, BUT WHENEVER WE ASKED ABOUT HIS CREDENTIALS AND DEGREES THEY COULD NEVER BE FOUND…WHEN OTHER PEOPLE WOULD ASK, HE WOULD TELL THEM THAT HE IS TIRED OF HAVING TO PROVE HIMSELF TO EVERYONE AND REFUSES TO GIVE IN TO PEOPLE DEMANDING TO SEE HIS DEGREES AND THAT ALL THAT MATTERS IS THAT HE KNOWS HE IS LEGITIMATE.

IAN: NO! ONLY HIS WORD.

JM: When did you first start realizing that something was wrong and what finally caused you to split?

TREVOR: AROUND THE TIME OF THE USA SEMINAR. HE MISSED 3 PLANE FLIGHTS THAT WERE BOOKED FOR HIM AND WAS REFUSING TO COME OVER CLAIMING HIS BACK WAS BAD, YET THE SEMINAR HAD BEEN PLANNED FOR 3 MONTHS AT A PERSONAL COST TO ME OF $3000 NOT INCLUDING THE PLANE TICKETS PAUL CHARGED ON MY ACCOUNT WITHOUT MY KNOWLEDGE….WHEN HE FINALLY DID COME, THE DAY BEFORE THE SEMINAR, HE SHOWED UP IN REALLY BAD SHAPE BOTH PHYSICALLY AND MENTALLY AND IN FACT THE AIRLINE HAD AN AMBULANCE AT THE AIRPORT READY TO RUSH HIM TO THE HOSPITAL. WHAT FINALLY CAUSED THE SPLIT WAS WHEN HIS BEHAVIOR BECAME SO ERRATIC AND BIZARRE AND MONEY WAS MISSING AND HE REFUSED TO SEND OVER SUPPLEMENT STOCKS THAT I PAID FOR---WHICH I LATER FOUND OUT WAS DUE TO THE FACT THAT HE OWED THE MANUFACTURERS A HUGE AMOUNT OF MONEY. AND OF COURSE WHEN WE STARTED TO FIND OUT HIS CREDENTIALS WERE UNSUBSTANTIATED AND HE WAS MAKING OUTLANDISH CLAIMS ABOUT ALL SORTS OF PEOPLE.

IAN: I WOULD ALSO HAVE TO SAY AROUND THE TIME OF THE SEMINAR AS I WAS STAYING WITH TREVOR IN THE STATES. IT CONFIRMED MY DEEPEST FEARS AND FROM THEN ON I BEGAN RETHINKING A GREAT MANY THINGS.

JM: Hopefully everybody knows that Ian Harrison is a professional bodybuilder competing in the IFBB. Ian, you haven't competed for some time now and it appeared that Paul was playing a major role in your comeback. How are these events going to affect your return to competition?

IAN: THANKS FOR REMEMBERING ME, BUT REMEMBER, IT’S NOT OVER TILL THE FAT LADY SINGS AND RIGHT NOW SHE IS IN MY CONSERVATORY TIED AND GAGGED UNTIL THE TIMING IS PERFECT. PAUL HAS GIVEN ME ADVICE JUST AS KERRY HAS. PAUL HAS NEVER FULLY PREPPED ME FOR A SHOW AND ALL OF HIS ADVICE WOULD BE FILTERED AND I WOULD ASSUME MY OWN CONCLUSIONS. NOT WORKING WITH PAUL BORRESEN WILL NOT EFFECT MY RETURN TO COMPETITION AND ONCE I DECIDE, BELIEVE ME, IAN HARRISON WILL SHOW THE WORLD JUST WHAT HE IS CAPABLE OF. BEING AN UNDERDOG INSPIRES ME, I KNOW WHAT I AM CAPABLE OF (325LBS BEFORE MY CONTEST PREP FOR THE 98 ARNOLD) AND WITHOUT FOLLOWING ANY GURU’S ADVISE I WILL COMPETE (AS MY GOOD FRIENDS NASSER EL SONBATY AND LEE PRIEST DO) LOOKING HOW I WANT TO LOOK, AND MAY THE JUDGES DO WHAT THEY WILL.

JM: Despite the split, it appears from your article you still advocate a lot of the ideas and theories set forth by Paul. Is this an accurate description of your current position?

TREVOR: AGAIN IT NEEDS TO BE UNDERSTOOD THAT MOST OF THIS INFORMATION IS FROM BOTH IAN AND MYSELF. EVERYONE WHO HAS EVERY EMAILED PAUL HAS ALWAYS RECEIVED A REPLY AND AN ANSWER TO THEIR QUESTION FROM ME, AS PAUL WAS NOT AROUND TO ANSWER THEM AND IF I SENT HIM EMAILS, THEY WERE NEVER ANSWERED, SO I DID THE WORK MYSELF AND CONSULTED WITH IAN EXTENSIVELY.

IAN: ABSOLUTELY. A LOT OF PAUL’S THEORIES ARE SOUND. I PERSONALLY DO NOT AGREE WITH MANY OF HIS EXTREME CYCLES HOWEVER.

JM: Both of you claim that most of the work done on the Biohazard USA site was actually done by you and not Mr. BORRESEN. Why did you allow him to take all of the credit?

TREVOR: BLIND FAITH I GUESS. WE BELIEVED HE WAS, IN FACT, A PHARMACOLOGIST AND A BIOCHEMIST AND WE FELT THIS WOULD GIVE THE COMPANY INSTANT CREDIBILITY AND ALLOW US TO REACH A GREATER NUMBER OF PEOPLE AND HELP THEM GET WHERE THEY WANT TO GO.

IAN: I CONSIDERED HIM A GOOD FRIEND AND TREVOR SHOWED TREMENDOUS LOYALTY BECAUSE IT WAS PAUL’S ORIGINAL IDEA TO CREATE THE COMPANY IN THE STATES.

JM: What are the immediate future plans for Biohazard USA?

TREVOR: OUR IMMEDIATE PLANS ARE TO CONTINUE DOING WHAT WE HAVE BEEN DOING, HELP PEOPLE GET AS HUGE AS POSSIBLE WITHOUT HURTING THEMSELVES IN THE SHORTEST SPACE OF TIME AND MAKE CUTTING EDGE, HIGH END, NUTRITIONAL PRODUCTS AVAILABLE TO ALL WHO ARE INTERESTED.

IAN: BUILD, GROW, HELP FELLOW BODYBUILDERS AND ACHIEVE OUR GOALS.

JM: I know that there had been a long-term feud between Biohazard and Chemical Nutrition. What's your current relationship with Kerry Kayes and Dorian Yates?

TREVOR: I RECENTLY SPOKE TO KERRY KAYES AND DORIAN FOR THE FIRST TIME AND I WAS EMBARRASSED FOR EVER THINKING NEGATIVELY ABOUT 2 GUYS WHO ARE GENUINELY NICE PEOPLE THAT LOVE THE SPORT OF BODYBUILDING AND ARE LOOKING TO GIVE BACK TO IT IN EVERY WAY…IT WAS ONLY BECAUSE PAUL TOLD ME KERRY WAS A MONSTER THAT RUINED HIS LIFE AND STOLE HIS COMPANY AND THAT DORIAN WAS EQUALLY AS EVIL THAT I EVER THOUGHT NEGATIVELY OF THEM……IT IS A FACT THAT WHEN I FIRST SPOKE TO PAUL, ALL I DID WAS ASK HIM ABOUT DORIAN BECAUSE HE HAD BEEN AN INSPIRATION TO ME AND AT THAT TIME PAUL TOLD ME HE WAS GOOD FRIENDS WITH DORIAN AND THAT HE HELPED COACH HIM FOR THE MR. OLYMPIA. SOON AFTER, THOUGH, HE STARTED TO PAINT A MUCH DIMMER PICTURE OF DORIAN.

IAN: KERRY KAYES AND I HAVE KNOWN EACH OTHER FOR OVER 10 YEARS. HE IS A GOOD, GOOD MAN WHO HAS ONLY SHOWN ME KINDNESS AND RESPECT. DORIAN TOOK BODYBUILDING INTO THE NEXT MILLENNIUM AND I RESPECT HIS ACHIEVEMENTS TREMENDOUSLY. AS A MAN I REALLY NEVER GOT TO KNOW HIM.

JM: It seemed that Paul gained a lot of notoriety after detailing some of the outlandish dosages he claimed current bodybuilders are using. To the best of your knowledge, how much of this was based on actual hands-on experience with elite bodybuilders and how much was conjecture?

TREVOR: UNFORTUNATELY IT HAS COME TO OUR ATTENTION THAT HE HAS NEVER HAD ANY HANDS ON EXPERIENCE WITH THE TOP PROS HE CLAIMED TO HAVE HELPED AND THAT IT WAS ALL A LIE.

IAN: I KNOW MOST OF THESE GUYS AND WE TALK! PAUL’S CLAIMS ARE MERELY CHINESE WHISPERS TO MY KNOWLEDGE.

JM: Ian, I know for some time that Paul worked with you and helped develop your cycles. Were the cycles you developed together similar to those he spoke about in terms of dosages?

IAN: NO WAY JOSE’! I REMEMBER SEVERAL COURSES BEING WRITTEN OUT FOR ME BY PAUL, THEN I WOULD GO HOME AND SIFT THROUGH LOGIC AND EXCESS. USUALLY THIS WOULD END UP WITH ME DOWNGRADING THE DOSAGES BY ½ TO ¼ AND USING MY OWN EXPERIENCE OF WHAT WORKS FOR ME.

JM: Will you continue to operate under the Biohazard name?

TREVOR: YES, BIOHAZARD USA IS OWNED BY US, NOT PAUL BORRESEN. I DO NOT WANT TO SOUND RUDE, BUT THAT IS THE TRUTH REGARDLESS OF WHAT HE WISHES TO BELIEVE.

IAN: YES!! ABSOLUTELY!!

JM: You've claimed that supplements were paid for and never shipped. At this point, I would have to imagine that all de****gs between Biohazard USA and Paul BORRESEN are over. Do you plan on releasing a new line of supplements under the Biohazard name?

IAN: I’LL LET TREVOR ANSWER THAT.

TREVOR: ALL OF THE ORIGINAL FORMULAS WILL BE RELEASED IN THE STATES IN THEIR FULL POTENCY UNLIKE THAT WHICH IS BEING DONE CURRENTLY IN THE U.K. (WHICH IS ANOTHER REASON FOR THE SPLIT)

[j martini]

Heres more


JM: From what you've told me, there's recently been an issue of potency with some of the Biohazard products. What are you're plans to rectify this situation?

IAN: AGAIN I’LL LEAVE THIS TO TREVOR.

TREVOR: NONE OF THE PRODUCTS IN THE USA ARE OR HAVE EVER BEEN LACKING IN POTENCY, IT HAS ONLY RECENTLY COME TO OUR ATTENTION THAT THE UK LINE OF SUPPLEMENTS IS TARNISHED TO SAY THE LEAST WHICH LIKE I SAID BEFORE IS ONE OF THE MAJOR REASONS FOR THE SPLIT.

JM: I know you've been hesitant to address this issue directly, but do either of you have any direct knowledge of current recreational drug use by Mr. BORRESEN?

TREVOR: NO COMMENT.

IAN: LET ME JUST SAY THAT IF ANYONE CLAIMS TO KNOW EXACTLY WHAT ANYONE ELSE IS DOING THEN THEY ARE LYING AND I AM NOT A LIAR. AT THE END OF THE DAY, ONLY THE PERSON WHO IS USING DRUGS KNOWS EXACTLY WHAT THEY ARE DOING. PEOPLE OBSERVING FROM THE OUTSIDE CAN ONLY MAKE EDUCATED ASSUMPTIONS AND WE WILL LEAVE IT AT THAT.

JM: Do you feel this drug use has contributed in any way to the demise of your relationship with Mr. BORRESEN?

TREVOR: LET'S JUST SAY THAT DRUGS COULD CHANGE JESUS INTO LUCIFER, JUST IMAGINE WHAT THEY COULD DO TO A LESSER MAN.

IAN: I STRONGLY SUSPECT SO.

JM: I know that Paul had claimed on numerous occasions to be sky-rocketing in muscular bodyweight and planned on entering competitions fairly soon. In all of the pictures I have seen of Paul, he never seemed to be anywhere near the level of development he claimed. What's the best condition either of you have seen him attain?

TREVOR: WHEN I FIRST CONTACTED PAUL HE TOLD ME HE WAS 285LBS IN 10% BODYFAT....WHEN I FINALLY SAW HIM FOR THE FIRST TIME HE WAS AROUND 245LBS. I HAVE ONLY SEEN PICTURES OF HIM IN CONTEST SHAPE AND HE WEIGHED AROUND 200LBS.....THE THING IS, IS THAT HE TOLD ME THAT HE WOULD BE 306LBS BY THE TIME OF THE SEMINAR, SO I PROMOTED HIM IN ALL THE ADVERTISEMENTS AS A 5'8'' 306LB FREAK OF NATURE WITH 23'' CALVES, AND WHAT SHOWED UP WAS SOMEONE WHO WAS NOT FIT TO DO MUCH OF ANYTHING DUE TO EXTREMELY POOR HEALTH MENTALLY AND PHYSICALLY AND WEIGHED ABOUT 225LBS.

IAN: AT AN E.F.B.B. QUALIFIER HE COMPETED IN SEVERAL YEARS AGO. HE WAS A CREDIBLE AMATEUR IN THE LIGHTHEAVY CLASS. HIS GENETICS WERE NEVER THE BEST AS FAR AS LINES GO, BUT HE DID ATTAIN A GOOD STANDARD (NOT PRO BY ANY MEANS HOWEVER)

JM: What does the future hold for Trevor Smith, Ian Harrison, and Biohazard USA?

TREVOR: WHENEVER YOU EMANCIPATE YOURSELF FROM A BAD SITUATION, IT HURTS AT FIRST, BUT EVENTUALLY YOU LOOK BACK AT IT AS THE GREATEST DAY OF YOUR LIFE, SO IN THAT RESPECT THE FUTURE IS AS BRIGHT AS EVER.

IAN: I MUST AGREE WITH TREVOR ON THAT ONE.

JM: If Paul were here right now, what would you both say to him?

TREVOR: THAT IT IS TOO BAD THAT SOMEONE WHO IS SMART AND WELL READ WOULD FEEL THE NEED TO LIE ABOUT THEMSELVES TO MAKE THEM LOOK AND FEEL BETTER AND THAT HAD HE JUST BEEN HONEST, HE COULD HAVE HAD THE WORLD ON A STRING. I TRULY WISH IT DID NOT HAVE TO END THIS WAY AND I WISH EVERYTHING HE SAID WAS TRUE AS I PUT MY LIFE SAVINGS INTO PROMOTING HIM. AS A HUMAN BEING, WE BOTH WISH HE STRAIGHTENS HIMSELF OUT AND SOMEDAY CAN REALIZE THAT PEOPLE CARED AND WENT OUT OF THEIR WAY FOR HIM AND THAT HE LET THEM AND MORE IMPORTANTLY HIMSELF DOWN. AT THE END OF THE DAY ALL YOU HAVE IS YOUR WORD, AND IF THIS IS WORTHLESS SO ARE YOU.

IAN: I PERSONALLY WOULD SAY DON’T WASTE YOUR POTENTIAL PAUL. STRAIGHTEN YOURSELF UP AND FULFILL YOUR PROMISES TO YOU AND THE PEOPLE AROUND YOU. AND GOOD LUCK.

JM: This is an open forum, and you can say pretty much anything you want. What would you like to tell the readers of Anabolic Extreme?

TREVOR AND IAN: THAT BIOHAZARD USA IS HERE TO STAY AND THAT THE CORE PRINCIPLES OF HARDCORE KNOWLEDGE, HARDCORE INFORMATION, CUTTING EDGE PRODUCTS REMAIN THE FOUNDATION OF THE COMPANY AND THAT ANYONE CAN CALL US UP WITH ANY QUESTION AND WE WILL DO OUR BEST TO HELP THEM OUT. LIFE IS TOO SHORT TO LEARN THE HARD WAY AND WE WANT TO INSURE THAT PEOPLE ACHIEVE THEIR GOALS WITHOUT HURTING THEMSELVES.

Editors note: Out of fairness, we attempted to contact Paul Borreson for his comments. We have not heard a response from him as of yet. Should he decide to contribute his opinion surrounding the recent brouhaha between himself and Biohazard USA, we will certainly bring it to your attention. I'd like to personally thank Trevor Smith and Ian Harrison for granting us this interview and allowing us to reprint the article below.

FLASH!

The day before this article was sent off to be posted, we contacted Ian Harrison by telephone in England to get his comments about some recent claims made on Biohazard849, Paul Borrseson's UK website. Specifically, Borreson is still claiming an association with Ian and claims Ian had nothing to do with the recent breakup. Here's what Ian had to say.

AE: Ian, what is the status of your relationship with Paul Borreson?

Ian: I've split with Paul Borreson and I have no connection with Biohazard UK anymore.

AE: What role will you play, if any, in the future of Biohazard USA?

Ian: My future is most definitely in the USA, and I feel confident I will be working with Trevor Smith.

So that's it folks! Seems something fishy is about with Paul Borreson and Biohazard UK since he still claims a relationship with Ian. You heard it hear first!


THE BIOHAZARD USA ARTICLE
THE REAL SITUATION......

IT HAS COME TO BIOHAZARD USA'S ATTENTION THAT WE HAVE BEEN DUPED.....LIED TO, AND BASICALLY MADE TO LOOK LIKE A ****ING FOOL....

BIOHAZARD USA WAS FOUNDED BY IAN HARRISON AND TREVOR SMITH WHO WERE INSPIRED BY THE PRINCIPLES SET FORTH, BUT SELDOM FOLLOWED BY PAUL BORRESEN....DURING THIS PROCESS WE WERE LED TO BELIEVE MANY THINGS...ALL OF WHICH WE HAVE COME TO FIND OUT HAVE BEEN UN-TRUE!!!

ALL OF THE CYCLE PROGRAMS YOU HAVE RECEIVED HAVE, IN FACT, BEEN PROVIDED BY TREVOR SMITH AND IAN HARRISON......THIS CANNOT BE DENIED SINCE ALL THOSE HAVING RECEIVED EMAIL RESPONSES CLEARLY CAN SEE THAT THEY CAME FROM [email protected] WHO CONSULTS DAILY WITH I.F.B.B. PROFESSIONAL IAN HARRISON . THEY NEVER CAME FROM PAUL BORRESEN EXCEPT A SMALL NUMBER THAT HE ANSWERED WHEN HE WAS OVER HERE....

HOWEVER, BECAUSE WE BELIEVED IN WHAT WE WERE TOLD AND BECAUSE WE ARE LOYAL PEOPLE, WE DECIDED TO TAKE A BACK SEAT AND LET PAUL BORRESEN HAVE ALL THE CREDIT

THIS, OF COURSE, WILL NO LONGER CONTINUE!!!

AS WE SPEAK THERE ARE A PLETHORA OF LAWSUITS TARGETED AT MR. BORRESEN FOR MAKING UN-SUBSTANTIATED CLAIMS....NOT THE LEAST OF WHICH IS THAT THE GREAT DORIAN YATES IS A DRUG ADDICT.....THIS IS NOT ONLY UNFAIR, BUT DEAD WRONG, ESPECIALLY CONSIDERING THE SOURCE WHO HIMSELF IS KNOWN TO HAVE A LARGE NUMBER OF, SHALL WE SAY, PERSONAL ISSUES...... IT HAS ALSO COME TO OUR ATTENTION THAT PAUL BORRESEN IS MAKING CLAIMS THAT HE IS COACHING LEE PRIEST FOR THE MR. OLYMPIA AND THAT HE PERSONALLY KNOWS LEE USES 3000MG OF GEAR PER DAY!!! WELL UPON SPEAKING TO LEE TO CLEAR SOME THINGS UP HE PROVED THE TYPE OF MAN HE IS BY BASICALLY LAUGHING AT THE WHOLE THING. LET’S FACE IT 3000MG WOULD KILL A ****ING BULL, NOT TO MENTION THAT THERE IS NO REASON TO USE THESE AMOUNTS…..PAUL BORRESEN ALSO STATED THAT LEE EATS 30 BIG MACS A DAY IN THE OFF SEASON AND GETS AWAY WITH THIS BY USING A TON OF INSULIN …..THIS IS ALSO A JOKE SINCE AFTER SPEAKING WITH LEE AND HIS DOCTOR WE FOUND OUT THAT LEE IS HYPO-GLYCEMIC AND NEVER—NOR CAN HE EVER—USE INSULIN….LOOK FOR A FULL BLOWN INTERVIEW WITH LEE NEXT MONTH

BOTH TREVOR SMITH AND IAN HARRISON ALONG WITH CHRIS SNEDDON (WHO WERE ALL ON HAND TO CARRY PAUL BORRESEN THROUGH THE USA SEMINAR BECAUSE OF HIS HORRIBLE CONDITION) HAVE NOW SPOKEN WITH BOTH DORIAN YATES AND KERRY KAYES AND ABOUT 30 OTHER PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN LEFT HOLDING THE BAG OF SHIT CREATED BY PAUL BORRESEN

WE WOULD LIKE TO TAKE THE TIME TO APOLOGIZE WHOLE HEARTEDLY FOR ANY SLANDEROUS INFORMATION THAT APPEARED IN OUR WEBSITE IN REGARDS TO DORIAN YATES, CHEMICAL NUTRITION, KERRY KAYES, BRIAN BATCHELDOR T.C. LUOMA AND TESTOSTERONE .NET........AS IT TURNS OUT, THEY HAD EVERY RIGHT TO PULL THE INTERVIEW WITH PAUL BORRESEN DUE TO THE FACT THAT NONE OF HIS CLAIMS COULD BE SUBSTANTIATED---EVEN THOUGH WE WERE ASSURED THAT COPIES OF ALL LITERATURE PUBLISHED AND ALL DEGREES WERE SENT FED-EX TO T.C. LUOMA AT TESTOSTERONE.NET TO VALIDATE PAUL'S CREDENTIALS.... (UNFORTUNATELY THIS WAS SUPPOSED TO BE DONE BY SOMEONE CLAIMING TO BE BOTH A PHARMACOLOGIST, BIOCHEMIST AND NOW A DOCTOR, BUT WHO IS NOT ANY OF THE ABOVE)

IN SHORT, BIOHAZARD USA IS HERE TO STAY HOLDING TRUE TO IT'S PRINCIPLES......WE HAVE NEVER LIED TO ANYONE, BUT UNFORTUNATELY WE HAVE BEEN LIED TO A GREAT NUMBER OF TIMES BY THE VERY PERSON WE WERE TRYING TO PROMOTE........ IT SHOULD ALSO BE MADE KNOWN THAT THE REASON WE HAVE BEEN DELAYED IN HAVING OUR PRODUCTS AVAILABLE IS THAT SEVERAL SHIPMENTS WHICH WERE PRE-PAID FOR WERE NEVER SENT BY PAUL BORRESEN WHO INSTEAD STRUNG US ALONG CLAIMING THEY WERE SENT OR BEING SENT AND THAT IT WAS CUSTOMS FAULT THAT THEY DID NOT GET HERE.....OF COURSE WE RECENTLY FOUND OUT THE PRODUCTS WERE NEVER SHIPPED, BUT THAT THE MONEY SENT FOR THEM WENT INSTEAD INTO MR. BORRESENS POCKET....THIS WAS THE SAME SCENARIO FOR PROMINENT NATIONAL COMPETITOR JUSTIN BROOKES, WHOM BOTH TREVOR AND IAN HELPED IN THE OFF SEASON TO GET TO HIS BIGGEST EVER (293LBS) ONLY TO WATCH A NON-FUNCTIONAL PAUL BORRESEN f**k UP HIS WHOLE CONTEST PREP BY NOT SENDING HIS PROGRAMS AND SCREWING HIM OUT OF 800 DOLLARS. THE END RESULT FOR JUSTIN WAS THAT HE WEIGHED IN AT 242LBS.....A FAR CRY FROM THE 265LBS HE SHOULD HAVE CARRIED ON THE STAGE HAD SOMEONE NOT COMPLETELY ****ED HIS ENTIRE CONTEST PREP.....

WE CAN NOW TAKE THE FRONT SEAT (WHERE WE BELONG) IN BRINGING HARD-CORE INFORMATION AND PRODUCTS TO THE MASSES. BOTH IAN AND TREVOR PERSONALLY APOLOGIZE AND HOPE THAT YOU ALL REALIZE THAT THIS WILL DO NOTHING BUT MAKE US A STRONGER COMPANY.......IF ANYONE HAS ANY QUESTIONS OR NEEDS ANY ASSISTANCE WE ENCOURAGE YOU TO CALL US AT 310-822-6412 OR EMAIL US.......

LOOK FOR MORE ARTICLES ON THIS TURN OF EVENTS AND LOOK FOR A FULL BLOWN INTERVIEW WITH THE GREAT DORIAN YATES.....WHO WILL BE ON HAND AT THE 1999 MR. OLYMPIA TO CONTINUE TO GIVE BACK TO THE SPORT AND PROMOTE HIS AND HIS PARTNER KERRY KAYES' COMPANY--CHEMICAL NUTRITION. IF YOU PLAN ON ATTENDING THE 1999 MR. OLYMPIA IN LAS VEGAS, PLEASE STOP BY THEIR BOTH AND SHOW YOUR SUPPORT, AND TELL THEM TREVOR AND IAN SENT YOU AND THEY WILL BE MORE THAN HAPPY TO SET THINGS STRAIGHT IN A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT WAYS…..

[marcus300]

J martini, yeh ive read the article aswell as loads of others, i could cut and paste afew aswell i THOUGHT YOU DIDNT TAKE EVERYTHING YOU READ AS TRUE? i knew PB and i knew which people were in contact with him and believe me they were top pro's he built hugh men, but they didnt like paul talking about his methods which makes sense, i do know the truth what happened with paul and its not very nice, Ian Harrison was pauls best friend ive got the video they both did about AAS, training and diets, paul knew his stuff he was years ahead of the game but after he broke his back things started to go wrong for him, he wasnt a very happy man because he couldnt train and it effected him mentaly he used high dosages of pain killers just to feel normal and train, which was his mistake, he was pushed out of a certain supplement company, theres loads more but you should read all the articles not just one, he changed the way we treat Aids victims with his research into receptors and steroids his life was pharmacology and bodybuilding, now i dont agree with some of his methods but he did speak alot of truth, i only know what he told me and my experiences with his cycle theories, i quote from your statement -all im saying is i would not take anything anyone says literally no matter who they are. exactly you have to make up your own mind with your own experiences with AAS and not what someone says does or doesnt happen with a certain compound, if you like doing your way thats fine but dont knock a man because you you read it, cant you see alot of the pro's didnt like him talking to the public because they are all drug free arent they?? take you blinkers off...

[BajanBastard]

That article was interesting but anyone who knows about the supp industry knows it's filled with a bunch of cut-throats so i can't believe all if any of it.

Honestly this Paul dude is starting to look like a fraud. Not because of the interview but because of his claims of being a bio-chemist/doctor. I find it hard to believe a real bio-chemist would over-look something as simple as androgen receptor up-regulation and provirons binding affinity to the AR, basically how androgens work within the human body. This is not theory or speculation this is fact.

If you want me to post the study comparing proviron to other AAS i can.

[vitor]

Proviron doesnt bind to the andogen recepter in the muscle because most of it will enzymatically be converted to the diol. So, to say proviron blocks the recepter for other androgens is complete nonsense. Proviron does howerer, bind to SHBG, so more free test will be realised in the body. Proviron also effects the CNS, because it works in the body in an unknown dht-manner, and this promotes more strenght and increased libido. Therefor proviron will make other steroids more effective. It also works greate as a bridge for keeping strenght gains, keeping libido up and will basically mask the feeling of being shut down or supressed in PCT.

[marcus300]

Proviron doesnt bind to the andogen recepter in the muscle because most of it will enzymatically be converted to the diol. So, to say proviron blocks the recepter for other androgens is complete nonsense. Proviron does howerer, bind to SHBG, so more free test will be realised in the body. Proviron also effects the CNS, because it works in the body in an unknown dht-manner, and this promotes more strenght and increased libido. Therefor proviron will make other steroids more effective. It also works greate as a bridge for keeping strenght gains, keeping libido up and will basically mask the feeling of being shut down or supressed in PCT.

yes i understand this and ive read the article aswell, but been research today and found 2 articles saying that the different, one says it should never be taken with a course but for pct only and the other one says only with a cycle and not for pct, conflicting article just like alot of stuff we read, all we can do is do it from experience and how it is for you, ive done both and i like it better for pct,, do a search on receptors and proviron on google and read them for yourselves, if your happy with the gains gains your making change nothing,
also ive heard all the storys about paul and no matter what you may think he was far head of his time with his studys on AR +ASS

[j martini]

J martini, yeh ive read the article aswell as loads of others, i could cut and paste afew aswell i THOUGHT YOU DIDNT TAKE EVERYTHING YOU READ AS TRUE? i knew PB and i knew which people were in contact with him and believe me they were top pro's he built hugh men, but they didnt like paul talking about his methods which makes sense, i do know the truth what happened with paul and its not very nice, Ian Harrison was pauls best friend ive got the video they both did about AAS, training and diets, paul knew his stuff he was years ahead of the game but after he broke his back things started to go wrong for him, he wasnt a very happy man because he couldnt train and it effected him mentaly he used high dosages of pain killers just to feel normal and train, which was his mistake, he was pushed out of a certain supplement company, theres loads more but you should read all the articles not just one, he changed the way we treat Aids victims with his research into receptors and steroids his life was pharmacology and bodybuilding, now i dont agree with some of his methods but he did speak alot of truth, i only know what he told me and my experiences with his cycle theories, i quote from your statement -all im saying is i would not take anything anyone says literally no matter who they are. exactly you have to make up your own mind with your own experiences with AAS and not what someone says does or doesnt happen with a certain compound, if you like doing your way thats fine but dont knock a man because you you read it, cant you see alot of the pro's didnt like him talking to the public because they are all drug free arent they?? take you blinkers off...

Yeah your right im sure a lot of pros who might have worked with him didnt want it to be known, but that was partly pauls own fault as well because he openly discussed what they use, as opposed to someone like Chad Nicholls who doesnt give away any of there secrets.

But lets just leave this topic alone Paul Borreson is dead may he rest in peace, im sure he had plenty of good ideas and theorys on AAS and some not so good just like most gurus. I was just stateing that i thought that he was off the mark as far as proviron was concerned.

Lets leave it at the Peace Bro.

[j martini]

yes i understand this and ive read the article aswell, but been research today and found 2 articles saying that the different, one says it should never be taken with a course but for pct only and the other one says only with a cycle and not for pct, conflicting article just like alot of stuff we read, all we can do is do it from experience and how it is for you, ive done both and i like it better for pct,, do a search on receptors and proviron on google and read them for yourselves, if your happy with the gains gains your making change nothing,
also ive heard all the storys about paul and no matter what you may think he was far head of his time with his studys on AR +ASS

Thats right mate there is so many different opinons on how to use AAS many of which are conflicting, the best bet is to study and decide for yourself what sounds right and apply it.

Bottom line is do what works for you there is no real right or wrong way to use AAS.

[marcus300]

Thats right mate there is so many different opinons on how to use AAS many of which are conflicting, the best bet is to study and decide for yourself what sounds right and apply it.

Bottom line is do what works for you there is no real right or wrong way to use AAS.

exactly my friend, thanks for the discussion......fine words

[BajanBastard]

yes i understand this and ive read the article aswell, but been research today and found 2 articles saying that the different, one says it should never be taken with a course but for pct only and the other one says only with a cycle and not for pct, conflicting article just like alot of stuff we read, all we can do is do it from experience and how it is for you, ive done both and i like it better for pct,, do a search on receptors and proviron on google and read them for yourselves, if your happy with the gains gains your making change nothing,
also ive heard all the storys about paul and no matter what you may think he was far head of his time with his studys on AR +ASS

Many articles on the net are usually written by people who never did an ounce of credible AAS research in their life. Did the articles have refs? I when i was writing steroid profiles for this site, i learned one very important thing..........99% of the AAS write-ups by the proposed 'experts' were utter BS. Nothing but myths and hear say.

[marcus300]

Many articles on the net are usually written by people who never did an ounce of credible AAS research in their life. Did the articles have refs? I when i was writing steroid profiles for this site, i learned one very important thing..........99% of the AAS write-ups by the proposed 'experts' were utter BS. Nothing but myths and hear say.

hey we agree for once, exactly my point experience in using AAS is priceless.
there is no black or white when using chemicals within the body,