Question about "How to Come Off" on Index page...

[SMALLbaby]

Hi everyone!
Im pretty new to this board and wish to state my compliments for such a good job and good discussion board.

Well,now when I`ve done my ass kissing part(he he he) I have few questions which, I hope won`t be much of a problem.

I have done 2 cycles so far(one was bulker|test e and dbol | and other one was a cutter| test prop and winny).

I was reading lots of good and usefull info on Your site and i came across something that interested me,but confused me a bit.

In your "How to come off" statements you said this

5.) In order to increase the body's own testosterone production the athlete, on one hand, takes HCG which directly and quickly stimulates the Leydig's cells in the testes and, on the other hand, takes Clomid which promotes the complete hypothalamohypophysial testicular axis, however, it needs a longer start-up phase. The administration of HCG begins during the last week of discontinuance. The athlete injects three times 5000 i.u. in a three-day interval. Following, three more injections of 5000 i.u. are injected every five days. After the third HCG injection the intake of Clomid begins since its gonadotropin-stimulating effect in the event of an already activated increased testicular activity is more effective. Clomid is now taken over two weeks, two tablets of 50 mg each per day in the first week and 50 mg tablets per day in the second week. Point 5 obviously does not apply to women.

Reason why I am asking this is because I am soon to start my second bulker cycle:
wk 1-4 dbol 30 mg ED
wk 1-4 test e 500mg
wk 5-11 test e 750 mg
wk 11-13 test e 500 mg
wk 6-12 tren ace 75mg EOD
wk 1-12 Deca 400mg

I have never used deca in my cylce(or tren) and i have never done PCT besides the usual one( the 3 week scheme),and yet the authors of the text above state athlete should use clomid for only TWO weeks,and yet I have read that if using deca PCT should last for FOUR weeks as stated here:
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=77975&page=1
Would you agree to this and could that be applied for my cycle?

Phew, I know it`s alot to read but stay with me for couple of minutes longer(if you lasted till here he he).

I am not able to use HCG trough out my cycle,so is it ok to use it toward the end of the cycle?

And(yes this is the last question) now I must ask about water retention.
I was thinking of using Nolva but I am afraid that this might weaken the effect of the the cycle if I start using it from the beggining of the cycle,so I would start it from week 5. Is it better to use Nolva 10mg ED+proviron 50mg,or Nolva 20 mg+ proviron 25 mg(as also stated in the "How to come off" text).

Wow, I didn`t know i could write so much.
I hope all those who can help will give me usefull inputs,and of course I am very thankfull for every reply.

Stay big!!

[SPIKE]

First off we should really concentrate on cleaning up your cycle before jumping ahead to PCT. Cant put the Carriage in front of the horse.

Seems like you have been researching the site a bit so why are you ramping up your doses? Running Tren and Deca at the same time? You should really clean up this cycle before starting it.

[SMALLbaby]

Hi!
thank you for your reply.
Yes, I have been reading alot,got alot of usefull info.
What would you change in this cycle. Should I remove tren (since its fast acting) and leave test and deca ,and if it is not a problem please explain why should I remove tren. I will listen to every(good) advice here.
Reason why I have put tren is because i saw it in "novice" cycle 3,but then that is a "cutter" cycle. But all AAS can be used for bulk and for cutting it all depends on diet.

[SPIKE]

All you have really experimented with is test and a 17aa. Tren is very from from a novice drug and can produce some serious unwanted sides in ran improperly. Even if ran accurately it may still give you sides you want nothing to deal with.

Considering you want a bulk cycle I'd ran something simialr to what you have already and throw in the Deca . Research a bit on the Tren and think about using it next time around.

wk 1-4 dbol 50 mg ED
wk 1-13 test e 750mg
wk 1-12 Deca 500mg
Wk 15-20 PCT

That is simple, easy to follow and can reap some great gains if everything esle is on point.

How did you do on your previous bulker with the Test and D-bol?

[SMALLbaby]

Sorry I wasn`t able to answer to your reply sooner.
I have been reading about Tren and what really amazed me is that his potency is 500 compared to test which is 100. Also night sweats and that it can be harsh on kindey(kidney killer)(but then again on several occasions I`ve read that it is not harsh and that its a myth). So yes, I have done my homework, Im not thinking about putting something in my body without knowing what it is.
But since You have much more experience in this I will listen to your kind advice and go with your cycle scheme.
Just few questions if I may:
Can Tren be used in a bulker or is it better for cutting(yes I know it all depends on diet)?
Is 50mg of dbol pretty harsh on liver? I will be using "Naposim". I have some Liv52 ready just in case.
In my first bulker I gained around 10kg and kept around 7(or 8kgs).

[SPIKE]

Can Tren be used in a bulker or is it better for cutting(yes I know it all depends on diet) Most definitely as long as its stacked with other compounds to compliment it. Obviously diet as you stated too.

Is 50mg of dbol pretty harsh on liver? I will be using "Naposim". I can say that I have used up to 50mgs ED of D-bol (Naps being my fav) and liver values were never negatively affected. It's based on the individuals lifestlye coupled with if they are simply prone to it as well.

I`ve read that it is not harsh and that its a myth).

Many myths in the BBing world but Tren being harsh is not one of them. I have ran it several times and even at 50mgs with ED injections I still can dodge the sides.

[SMALLbaby]

Which compounds in past did You combine Tren with in a bulker and by Your own experience worked fine? Once again, I won`t be using tren for this cycle as I`ve stated before, I will go with the cylce You proposed,but I wish to get a better insight (for my future cycles in which I will include tren) for bulkers with tren.
Once,again, thank You for Your reply.

[SPIKE]

Which compounds in past did You combine Tren with in a bulker and by Your own experience worked fine?

With tren as a bulker it was Test E and D-bol. Gains were good but werent enough to outweigh the sides of the Tren.

[New Juice]

that proposed cycle seems alittle high in my opinion. 500mg of deca and 750mg of test/ week. you've only done two cycles and should use low doses as long as you can because once you increase there's no going back. personally would do 300 deca dn 500 test. JMO

and as for tren it is definatly a compound requiring a lot of research and understanding it is harsh. as for bulk or cutting...well diet is all but tren puts on great quality muscle no bloat very hard muscle...most effective injectable, with the most sides...personally have seen my friends have great gains(amazing)...me I started losing my hair, but that's just me

[SMALLbaby]

I see. So your opinion is that I should stick with 500mg/wk.
Yes,ive done 2 cycles so far(other cycle was cutter with test prop 100mg EOD and winny), with fairly low dosages. You belive I could still gain well from 500mg? If so,that would be great because I am not one of those that wish to gain muscle without thinking about what are they putting in nor how it works for them. I was thinking about adding Proviron ,50mg/day to block estrogen and keep the bloat off,and I have read that proviron enhances the effects of testosterone . Is that okay?

[sceptic13]

Smallbaby

One thing no-one has mentioned is the fact that weeks 6-12 you are running Tren and Deca together. Since both can cause progesterone related gyno, I personally, would not run them together. If you get it no amount of Nolvadex will help relieve it as it is not estrogen related. The only time I ever got a tiny bit of gyno was when I was running Tren and that was without Deca.

[SMALLbaby]

Smallbaby

One thing no-one has mentioned is the fact that weeks 6-12 you are running Tren and Deca together. Since both can cause progesterone related gyno, I personally, would not run them together. If you get it no amount of Nolvadex will help relieve it as it is not estrogen related. The only time I ever got a tiny bit of gyno was when I was running Tren and that was without Deca.

thank you for reply!
As I stated above I won`t be using Tren in this cycle, I will go without it.
But let`s say,for argument sake if I did something of these 2 options:
wk 1-16 test e 500mg
wk 1-4 dbol 50mg ED
wk 1-4 Tren 75mg 4 times a week
wk 5-15 deca 400mg

OR
wk 1-12 test e 500mg
wk 1-12 deca 400 mg
wk 13-16 test prop 100 mg EOD(4 times a week)
wk 13-16 tren 75mg EOD (4 times a week)
wk 1-4 dbol 50mg ED

could deca, in any of these 2 options, be included ,with tren, in cycle?