first cycle, need some advice please.

**norcal209** · 02-11-2006, 12:38 AM

let me start off by introducing myself.
im mike. im probably the younger of the people tending to these boards. ive been just sitting in the background doing research and learning/consuming as much as info as i can before i decide what to start off my cycle with.
this will probably detur more than 1/2 of you guys reading this after i tell you, but im 17 going on 18.
im an avid workout enthusiast, and take it quite serious. ive started working out from an early age of 15 and worked out twice a day, 6x a week. my growth was amazing. in 4 months...my arms grew from a mere 11.5in. to 14.5in. and my bench press went from a one rep max of a measely 75-85lbs. to repping 225lbs. four times (being only 5'6, and 130ish lbs at that time, that was excellent). i had a strict (and still do for the most part) diet, work out as often as i can (what time left i have after school and work and everything else in my life).
so 2-3 years later. im stuck. my strength gains as well as size has literally struck a wall and will not go any higher. i have actually lost size as well as weight since a year and a 1/2 ago where my peak era was. ive been virtually the same size in height and weight for 4 years straight, and really dont see my body growing anytime soon.
4-5 meals a day, and 2-3 protein shakes + creatine still doesnt cut it, and im still stuck at being ~135lbs.
so i've turned to my last option. going on a few cycles. i refuse to inject, fore i am a needle phobic (literally) even though thats where the majority of opportunity of gains are at. so taking tabs orally are my only option.

after some research, ive decided some options i should turn to are taking either Anavar , Anadrol methanabol, oxanabol, or turanabol. i realize the dangers of taking 17-AA's, and am willing to take those risks (except losing hair...i'll steer clear of stanozolol ). im not looking to expect large gains or huge amounts of mass to be built. if i can just break into 150lbs. I'd be more than satisfied.
what do you guys suggest for what options i have open for my body size (5'6-5'7ish at 137lbs.)? i take working out seriously, as will i going on test.

just so you get an idea of where im at, heres a picture of what i was at my PEAK 2 years ago. and like i said since then, ive lost size/weight and wish to regain that and then some. im tired of working my behind off religiously and eating a great deal with little to no gains while i see others that put no effort into their programs and gain size/strength instantly...

if you read up to this point, and is willing to give any advice whatsoever on cycles to start off on, it'd be much appreciated. thanks in advanced.
i also have some sites that i'd like to be checked to see if they're legit...anyone willing to do a few checks?
TIA

-mike

**Kale** · 02-11-2006, 12:57 AM

Hi Mike.

Mate you are going to get told you are to young to juice by a lot of people here and you are. Doesnt sound like you are eating enough to me. Post a complete diet for a normal day. Also if you arnt prepared to inject then you are just wasting your time IMO. Orals only is a bad way to go. Have a read of this, then post your diet. Also you may get banned because you are not 18 yet. And finally you cant ask anything about sources on the open board. Its in the rules along with needing to be 18 to join.

"What is the Right Age to Start Using Steroids ?

By: Brandon Walsh
This article is being published in hopes of reaching some of the younger people, involved in our great sport of body building, reach their goals without making the great mistake of using steroids too early in their long lives. The problem with this is that most young bodybuilders (BBs) cannot grasp the concept of the future and how long the road ahead really is even with the use of steroids. How do you convince a 14 year old that it will take years before he can look like the Pro BB's in the magazines, and that he may never look like that even with all the drugs available in the world. Well that is what I hope to accomplish within this article.

At what age should you be, before you consider using steroids? This question is not as easily answered as you may think it is. You cannot randomly just pick an age and say that this is the point at which you can now start to consider using steroids.

Between the ages of 12 and 26 a male's hormone levels are on a steady rise until the age of 26. This is when these levels slowly start to decline until they are almost nonexistent by the ripe old age of 40.

When puberty starts in males at the age of 12 there is a huge flux in hormonal patterns in the body, which cause the growth of male characteristics, (deepening of the voice, growth of body hair, growth in height, etc.). These hormone levels increase by themselves so much that they can be compared to that of a mild steroid cycle. Therefore trying to add to what the body is doing on its own by adding in exogenous (outside) Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) is very counter productive.

Whenever any extra amount of AAS is added to the body, the body recognizes this extra level through a feedback loop in the human body known as the Hypothalamus. Once the Hypothalamus recognizes the increase in hormones which happens usually between 14 and 21 days, the body will shut off its own production of hormones until these levels decrease, along with increasing hormones to decrease these extra levels in the body (cortisone, estrogen). Cortisone and Estrogen are 2 hormones in the body that BBs do not need any extra. The easiest way to try to explain this without getting to complicated, is that the more AAS you put in your body, the more your body will try to lower those levels. When this happens BBs get all the side effects that are normally associated with AAS use, gynecomastia (growth of fatty tissue underneath the breasts in males), hair loss, kidney damage, liver damage, and high blood pressure, just to name a few).

Before you consider the use of AAS you should have already reached your genetic potential. What is your genetic potential? To figure this out you should first look at the weight, height and build of other members in your family. Is this exact, no, but it is somewhere to start. If every male on both sides of your family is approximately 5'7" and weighs between 150lbs and 170lbs and they are all bald by the age of 25, then it would be a good guess that you will also fall somewhere in those ranges by the time you stop growing. Now with working out and eating correctly for 4 years lets say, you would be able to put on 15 or more pounds of muscle tissue (that would mean you now weigh 165-185 lbs.). This is what your genetic potential would be. Now if you started to use steroids at that point, 165-185 lbs you may be able to put on another 15-20 lbs (180-200lbs). If you had started using when you were 125 lbs., and gained 25lbs through the use of steroids, you would still be well short of what you could have gotten naturally (150lbs as compared to 180-200lbs), and now it will be much harder to try to gain another 30-40lbs.

So for a starting point lets say that you need to be at least 18 years of age before you consider using steroids. Now that we have a starting point, lets look at a few other factors that should be considered. Steroids DO NOT IN ANY WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM makes up for a good diet and workout program. Most people who use AAS feel that this is the time where they can be a little more relaxed in their workouts and diet. Actually this is when they should be even more strict. So before you can think of using at the age of 18, you will need 3 more solid years of good training and eating habits. Minor changes in diet and workouts can result in great gains in mass and muscle as well as strength.

No matter how much assistance you get from AAS, without proper nutrition and workouts you will be lucky to have any gains at all, let alone keep them after the cycle is over. The goal of using any substance, legal or not should be that after you stop using it you don't loose all of that which you have fought to get. What would be the point of spending all that money (steroids are not free) to gain that 30lbs when you will loose it after the cycle is over anyway?

So the better question to ask instead of when can I take steroids, should be, what can I do to get all that I can out of my body without needing steroids?. In order to calculate my progress, I need to talk with my family and doctors, before I try to make a choice like that.

We will start with the age range of 14-16; this is when your hormones are raging. Your body is in full swing of making the best steroids that you can ever get, and it does all this without you even needing to do a single thing. At this point you should start with a solid exercise plan and a basic supplement plan in addition to the regular food that you need to be eating on a regular basis.

For workouts focus on the basic compound movements (Bench Press, Squats, Deadlifts, Barbell Curls, etc.) Working out 4 days a week with at least 8 hours of sleep a night is a great start. Add to that the extra protein that you should be taking and you will definitely start seeing a difference in your body. As for supplements, at this point all I would suggest is a good Meal Replacement Shake, multi-vitamin and creatine. Any shake will work, just add 2 shakes a day to the 3 solid meals that you should already be eating. Creatine has more benefits then I could start to explain in this article, but what I can say is that it will help your strength, muscle, speed, and recovery without any negative side effects.

By the age of 16-18 you will have had most of your growth spurts and you will be ready to change a few more things in your overall plan. You workouts can become a little more specialized as you start using different exercises. As for your nutrition program, all that I would think of adding now would be something such as extra glutamine before bed and maybe a ZMA supplement. You still don?t want to take anything that would alter what your body is doing on its own, so using ZMA and glutamine is just what you need.

Somewhere between 18 and 21 you should be just about done growing, so what should you do differently now? Add more protein! You should be getting at the very least, your body weight in grams of protein per day! And that?s at the very least! By now you will have been working out consistently for quite a while and should know your body very well. What will work and what won?t work should be old news. There isn?t really anything new to add to what is already a great program, other than Tribulus and maybe a pre-workout supplement such as Ultimate Orange. After this point, you can start to consider the use of steroids. What about them? Are they as terrible as everyone seems to think they are? As long as they are used correctly, I don?t think so. When considering their use, I feel that orals should be used as late as possible. These are most harmful on the body and therefore should not be used for a very long time.

Another thing to consider, other than the side effects I have already spoken of, is your sex drive. Some AAS will make your sex drive almost nonexistent and will have a big effect on your sperm count. These drugs in particular should try to be avoided. That leaves mild anabolics. Although they are the safest to use, they are expensive, illegal, and require the use of a needle. Which most first time users do not want to use.

I told you that this is not something that should be passed off very easily; you shouldn?t have to make the mistakes that most of us make by using steroids to early in your life. If used correctly, I think they are fine, but look at what it takes in order to use them correctly. Have you been working out for 5 years straight without more the 2 weeks off every 6 weeks? Do you eat every 2-3 hours, 6 times a day without missing a meal? Do you get 8 hours of sleep every night? This is something that can have a huge effect on your body for the rest of your life, so don?t make that choice in 10 minutes. Good luck and keep growing.

Designer Labs President / CEO *

**lowstace** · 02-11-2006, 01:03 AM

maybe you should get some shorter shorts or better yet longer pants

**goalseeker** · 02-11-2006, 01:18 AM

ya look pretty good bro.. But it is in fact true.. you still have more natty growin to do, and you will find out from others, that doing the juice now, will be regretted by yourself later. Others have been there, and wish they hadnt done it so early...

**usamm** · 02-11-2006, 01:31 AM

Not even 18 and you want steroids only because you dont want to work hard anymore? C'mon bro, thats sad. Also a oral only cycle wont do you any good in the long run. Read up on diet and exercise and SLEEP.

**norcal209** · 02-11-2006, 01:39 AM

kale, i thank you (and the other above me) for your response and advice. ive read all what you've posted a while ago.
simply put, i put in my time and effort more than anyone my age and have had no success in the past year and a 1/2.

mornings...i always start off w/ pasta for carbs. (zeite, lasagna, etc.), a protein shake mixed w/ creatine.
lunch, typically ill have a bacon/egg sandwhich or turkey breast sandwhich and an energy drink
after school ill have another protein shake w/ creatine, a loaf of bread for carbs, and a microwaveable meal to suffice. then ill head to the gym for a solid hour or so.
afterwards, if my stomach is up for it, ill have ANOTHER protein shake. if im not feeling to hot with it, ill skimp out and have propel or gatorade mixed with creatine and wait till dinner.
everday for dinner i either have steak, chicken, salads, pastas, or more steak.
weekends ill wake up to eggs, some type of meat, and bread.
so for the most part, my diet is alot better and consistent than most at my age.

i understand for my age, its dangerous to get on cycles., but at this point...its not to much of a factor for me. my body hasnt changed pretty much whatsoever in the last 3-4 years...which has concerned me as well as my parents.

and about not being able to post sources...i knew that, i was just asking who i could pm or w/e and ask if these sites are legit or not.
either way, ill go on some type of cycle of test regardless if im helped or not (but some keen advice would be nice). im not trying to be gun-ho or crazy about the situation, and am being pretty mature and cautious about going on it. im just looking at low dosages to help boost me up a lil and get out of the rut that ive been in.

and to the poster that left the smart ass remark...please, keep it to yourself. im not looking for negativity. i came here for some educated advice to steer me away from making wrong decisions, not to crack jokes.

any more feedback is much appreciated.

-mike

**norcal209** · 02-11-2006, 01:46 AM

Originally Posted by usamm

Not even 18 and you want steroids only because you dont want to work hard anymore? C'mon bro, thats sad. Also a oral only cycle wont do you any good in the long run. Read up on diet and exercise and SLEEP.

if you read...
i worked out twice a day 6x a week.
but being that i have work and school, theres no way i can sufficiently do that without it affecting my daily life.
now, i can get in a solid 4-5x a week.

ive worked my ass off harder in the gym, than anyone else. my strengths are comparable to these guys that are 180-200lbs, but my size hasnt grown. im just looking for ways to increase some mass.
as said before, im not looking for wild insane increases. thats not of main interest.
anything that'll give my test. levels a boost is more than sufficient.

**goalseeker** · 02-11-2006, 01:47 AM

Most run test only for a first, but thats all Im saying cuz I think you shouldnt be doin them.. sorry, I know its not much help..

**norcal209** · 02-11-2006, 01:54 AM

Originally Posted by goalseeker

Most run test only for a first, but thats all Im saying cuz I think you shouldnt be doin them.. sorry, I know its not much help..

its alright. any opinion, i consider help.
and atleast i have a general idea of what most people start off with now for their first cycle.

**goalseeker** · 02-11-2006, 02:01 AM

you look lean.. Id go hard core naturally for a couple more years at least, and make sure your diet is in full check, cuz I think you have great potential for lookin really ripped.

**goalseeker** · 02-11-2006, 02:03 AM

But If you choose to run something, run it alone..dont run a bunch of different things cuz if your body has a reaction to one of them, you wont be able to determine which one it is...good luck bro...

**Kale** · 02-11-2006, 02:10 AM

Seriously bro you are making a mistake. I know you are going to do it anyway, but you will be sorry in the long run if you are not carefull. And I absolutely 100% believe you can get a lot bigger naturally with the right diet and workout. From what you just posted your diet is crap I have to say and I think you are over training as well. You look terrific in your pic already bro, although I am guessing you dont have much in the way of legs under those shorts. Have you seen what a real diet looks like for bulking ? Have a look at this

Meal 1: Pro/Carb

8 Egg Whites, 1 Scoop Of Whey Protein, 1 cup oatmeal

50g protein / 54g carbs / 5g fat

Meal 2: Pro/Fat

Lean Ground Beef, ¼ cup swiss cheese, green veggies

55g protein / 2g carbs / 20g fat

Meal 3: Pro/Carb

Chicken Breast, 1 and a half cup Brown Rice

55g protein / 64g carbs / 3g Fat
**Disclaimer: Meal 3 can be a pro/fat meal if you are ultra sensitive to carb intake.

Meal 4: Pro/Fat

2 Cans of Tuna, 1 Tbsp Full Fat Mayonnaise, Veggies

60g protein / 2g carbs / 13g Fat

Workout

Meal 5: PWO Nutrition

2 Scoops Whey Protein / 80g of Dextrose

40g protein / 80g carbs / 0g fat

Meal 6: PPWO

Boneless Skinless Chicken Breast, ½ cup Brown Rice (Measured Uncooked)

50g protein / 70g carbs / 3g fat

Meal 7: Pro/Fat

Lean Protein of your choice, 2 Tbsp Natural Peanut Butter
50g protein / 5g carbs / 18g fat

Meal 8: Before Bed

3 Scoops of Whey Protein, 1.5 Tbsp. Flax Seed Oil

60g protein / 3g carbs / 21g Fat

That turns into approximately 420 grams protein, 250 grams Carbs, and 83 grams of fat. This is roughly 3500 calories

Now dont say you cant eat that much, because you can if you really want to. It will take time to get used to and you have to be dedicated to eating because that is all you will be thinking about thats for sure. I am not going to give you advice on juice because I dont think its right !

**norcal209** · 02-11-2006, 02:21 AM

Originally Posted by goalseeker

But If you choose to run something, run it alone..dont run a bunch of different things cuz if your body has a reaction to one of them, you wont be able to determine which one it is...good luck bro...

thats exactly what i plan on doing.
only running one thing at low dosages. thanks for the insight

and to kale, thats a damned near *bodybuilder's diet.
granted im only weighing in at 135lbs. even 1/2 of that intake would be more than sufficient.

i printed that out, and hopefully i can follow it on a routine basis.

**crash187ct** · 02-11-2006, 02:25 AM

Originally Posted by usamm

Not even 18 and you want steroids only because you dont want to work hard anymore? C'mon bro, thats sad. Also a oral only cycle wont do you any good in the long run. Read up on diet and exercise and SLEEP.

seriously man, 17?!? wtf....

**Kale** · 02-11-2006, 02:27 AM

Originally Posted by norcal209

thats exactly what i plan on doing.
only running one thing at low dosages. thanks for the insight

and to kale, thats a damned near *bodybuilder's diet.
granted im only weighing in at 135lbs. even 1/2 of that intake would be more than sufficient.

i printed that out, and hopefully i can follow it on a routine basis.

This will tell you how many calories you need

Harris Benedict Formula for Men
BMR = 66 + (13.7 X weight in kilos) + (5 X height in cm) - (6.8 X age in years)

Notes:
1 inch = 2.54 cm.
1 kilogram = 2.2 lbs.

Example of BMR
You are 25 years old
You are 6 feet tall
Your weight is 220 pounds
Your BMR is 66 + (1370) + (914) - (170) = 2180 calories

Harris Benedict Formula for Men - STEP 2
To determine your total daily calorie needs, now multiply your BMR by the appropriate activity factor, as follows:

If you are Sedentary - little or no exercise
Calorie-Calculation = BMR X 1.2
- If you are Lightly Active (light exercise/sports 1-3 days/week)
Calorie-Calculation = BMR X 1.375
- If you are Moderately Active (moderate exercise/sports 3-5 days/week)
Calorie-Calculation = BMR X 1.55
- If you are Very Active = BMR X 1.725 (hard exercise/sports 6-7 days/week)
Calorie-Calculation = BMR X 1.725
- If you are Extra Active (very hard daily exercise/sports & physical job or 2X day training)
Calorie-Calculation = BMR X 1.9

Total Calorie Needs Example
If you are lightly active, multiply your BMR (2180) by 1.375 = 2997
Your total daily calorie requirement is therefore 2997 calories.
This is the total number of calories you need in order to MAINTAIN your current weight.

If you want to gain body weight, you must consume more calories than you burn. One pound of body weight is roughly equivalent to 3500 calories, so eating an extra 500 calories per day will cause you to gain one pound a week. Etc….

We have included an excel document created by Elliot @ AR that will calculate your calorie needs for you, using the Harris Benedict formula.

Elliot's Harris Benedict Calculator for Males:
http://www.geocities.com/arelliotness/
Download the document named: harris-elliot.xls

**Jnrmrplymouth** · 02-11-2006, 04:59 AM

Ive been there myself bro. Im 20 now but when I started out I was having similar problems to you. The gains you made in those 4 months were incredible but that is just from the initial shock of weight training. I can solve your problem easily without the use of aas and I promise you can get to 160lbs in less than 18 months. How?

Nutrition, firstly, is THE most important factor period. Your diet is ok but you need a better plan. Protein shakes are a waste of time for gaining weight as the only calories they have come from protein. For MASS you need weight gainers. Throw every idea you have out of the window and start fresh.

My first advice is to take 2 weeks off from the gym and all other sports activity. Now lets talk diet. Your 135lbs so you should take in 210g of protein a day along with 420g of carbs and 100g or so of fats. Divide that into 7 meals a day and have exactly 30g of protein per meal for a positive nitrogen balance.

Training...........now I can guarantee that you are overtraining. You used to train 2 x day, 6 days a week. Well now your going to train 4 days per week for 1 hour a time. 12 sets for large muscle, 8 sets for small muscles.

These are my recommendations. I know my shit and know this will make you grow. If need be I will write you out a traning routine and diet. I just wanna see a young lad do well.