Time on= time question

**Bigpup101** · 02-12-2006, 10:40 AM

Question, general rule of thumb is time on=time off, so if running a 10 week cyle of test e can you start (in theory) your next cycle 10 weeks from there or do you include ,the 2 weeks pre-PCT and PCT ? is this too confusing lol? i know what i want to say but not sure if it's coming across clear

***SPIKE*** · 02-12-2006, 10:54 AM

Its Time on + PCT = Time off. So if you you run a 10 weeker plus a 2 week PCT then you will need 12 weeks off. IMO bloodwork is the best way to know when to get back on but as you said, this is a general rule of thumb.

What happened BigPup? No more HRT for you???

**01dragonslayer** · 02-12-2006, 10:54 AM

Your clear. Time on = time off including PCT. If your entire cycle is 12wks(this includes PCT)..you need to let your body recover for at least 12wks.

**Swifto** · 02-12-2006, 10:57 AM

Its all very well sticking to the "Time on + PCT = Time off" rule. But, the answer to this question lies in getting bloodwork done. Get it done when you "on", few weeks following PCT, then finally before you want to go "on" again.

**Bigpup101** · 02-12-2006, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by Jayhova

Its Time on + PCT = Time off. So if you you run a 10 weeker plus a 2 week PCT then you will need 12 weeks off. IMO bloodwork is the best way to know when to get back on but as you said, this is a general rule of thumb.

What happened BigPup? No more HRT for you???

Test all year long

i wrote back the following day, just a stupid idea i had. But on another note, what should i be asking for when i get my bloodwork done? pre-cycle i had bloodwork taken and they called and left a message just saying everything looked good, so i assume i was in the normal range for everything, but what should i be asking for Post cycle? thanks

**lzicc** · 02-12-2006, 11:15 AM

What I was told by my hrt advisor was to take 1 month off. This includes pct. Get blood test done at that point and if everything comes back good, it is ok to go back on. Now this is for test. Don't know about anything else. Also, this would include runnig hcg during and after cycle if I would run my cycle over 12 weeks.

**ward065** · 02-12-2006, 11:26 AM

1 month off sounds too soon, but likewise time on + pct = time off sounds like too long in my opinion, at least for what i did before i posted a similar question a few mins earlier. i took 10 weeks off after last shot after first cycle and really, really got huge gains during second cycle. i am keeping them pretty well 5 weeks after my last shot now and almost thru pct. sounds like maybe the hormone panel test is the way to know for sure whether youre ready to go back on or not

**Bigpup101** · 02-12-2006, 11:50 AM

this should be done directly following PCT or should i wait a week or two after PCT to have bloodwork done?

**Swifto** · 02-12-2006, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by Bigpup101

this should be done directly following PCT or should i wait a week or two after PCT to have bloodwork done?

I'd say 3-4 weeks following PCT. This way your body will have settled down after taking many kinds of compounds, whilst "on" and during PCT. I get mine 3-4 weeks following PCT to see if my liver values are ok and natural testosterone is being produced and is at the correct level.

**Bigpup101** · 02-12-2006, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by Swifto

I'd say 3-4 weeks following PCT. This way your body will have settled down after taking many kinds of compounds, whilst "on" and during PCT. I get mine 3-4 weeks following PCT to see if my liver values are ok and natural testosterone is being produced and is at the correct level.

sounds good, thanks swifto

**ward065** · 02-12-2006, 12:09 PM

Swifto, if the hormone values are nominal in the bloodwork at that point (3-4 weeks following pct), is it alright then at that point to start again on another cycle?

Granted i have always done excellent pct regimes, hcg , then clomid+nolv, and keep most of what i gain

**Swifto** · 02-12-2006, 12:26 PM

Originally Posted by ward065

Swifto, if the hormone values are nominal in the bloodwork at that point (3-4 weeks following pct), is it alright then at that point to start again on another cycle?

Granted i have always done excellent pct regimes, hcg, then clomid+nolv, and keep most of what i gain

This is a tough one.

Some argue that your body needs more time to reach homostasis. Bloodwork wont show how your joints are doing, following a cycle where unusually high muscle/weight gain may be evident. So, does that mean longer should be taken off inbetween cycles?

Also, some claim androgen receptors need time to up-regulate (thats if this exists) follwing a cycle. Some say this ir rubbish, others disagree.

I have read that members on this board have waited, say, 4-5 weeks after a cycle, then went "on" again, experience less gains than waiting 10-15 weeks, then again "on" again. Why is this? I dont think anyone really has an answer? I've never found one in my research.

If it were me, I'd wait a little longer. What harm is waiting 10-15 weeks and possibly causing the body less damage, than going "on" in 4-5 weeks and causing unnessasary damge that can be avoided with patience?

**ward065** · 02-12-2006, 12:33 PM

i think the androgen receptors re regulating is the MOST important aspect.

Let me explain. After 10-11 weeks in a cycle, my gains really, really slow down. It seems weeks 2-9 i get the best gains, weights and reps up with every workout.

Then towards week 10-11 i find new gains are not possible. I know it's time to conclude the cycle and soon begin PCT.

So when i take time off from cycling (First between second cycle, i took 10 weeks off after my last shot, about 5 weeks where i was taking nothing including clomid, nolva) I am able to get good gains when i start up.

Although i lost about 10 pounds to my bench after cycle 1 (Net gain to my bench was 30 lbs, after subtracting 10) During my second cycle i added 50 pounds to my bench. Right now i have lost 5 pounds to my bench after 5 weeks off- Giving myself a net gain of 75 pounds since May. The point being, i am still way ahead of where i was after i ended my first cycle.

I think it's necessary to take one step back after making three steps forward.....you cannot just keep making steps forward with gear unless you take a step back. However, the point is i always want to keep 66%+ of what i gain during a cycle. That is why before i found 10 weeks to be the optimal time between shots to let my receptors clear. Because gains came back at a great clip after that. Anyone comment on this finding?

**ward065** · 02-12-2006, 01:03 PM

also i would never go on again after 4-5 weeks. I have found 10 weeks was optimal. Because if the receptors cannot de-sensitize gains will not come as you'd like them to

**Hooligan** · 02-17-2006, 09:53 PM

I'm no expert on any of this.

But just from what I have seen being off you evitably lose your gains over time (the gains past your natural lean mass limit)...maybe at different rates depending on what compound was used and the severity of HPTA suppression and hormone imbalance... but in nearly every subject I've come across they have inevitably receded back to their body's natural lean muscle capacity--based on age, BMR etc. Sure, you could minimize time off (so that you begin again before all of the gains have gone into recession)--This is where chaining / bridging comes in.. but do you honestly think your body is going to be very well off after 10 years of chain cycling?

The only exception to the rule of gain recession has been those who have used growth hormone and IGF (most likely due to associated hyperplasia rather than hypertrophy alone).

With that being said if you think you're going to be a lifer (the term I use for those who can't get enough of the sauce).. it is most likely wise to limit your cycles to twice per year... or 10 years from now you may find your body burnt out.

I also agree with those who mentioned considering the aspects of recovery that involve more than just hormone balance etc. (think of joints and everything else).

I do not condone the use of A/AS, but If permanent gains are what you're looking for you'd be wise to consider more growth hormone / test combo rather than temporary hypertrophy produced by extensive stacks of analogs.

Limit your doses to only as much as you need and cycle sparingly (because you know it will not be your last).

~My $.02