Short heavy cyles explained- PB theory

[marcus300]

Primetime, the priming process leads up until the cycle starts, then you eat like an animal.

couldnt of put it better myself

[mmaximus25]

Bump

[marcus300]

MMaximus25, have you tried this way of cycling or are you considering it?

[mmaximus25]

I think I understand the priming part more or less now. You are getting your body metabolically ready for the large calories to come. The large calories are taken in such a shorter period your MBR is able to stay fairly high.

I have two methods of my diet, but for normal cycles… I get my BF down to the lowest possible by a regimen of moderate protein/carb 1day, lower carb/high protein for 2 days then moderate protein / high carb... repeat
Then while on I do a 2wk high cal (rich fats, processed carbs are ok) into a 2wk moderate but all whole food (low fat, whole carbs). The 2weeks are just enough to sustain my high BMR. (This is a diet based on the average body takes about two weeks for your Metabolism to change to any new diet, by the end of the high cal 2 wks your BMR starts to slow down, you then switch to a clean low fat whole food, where by the end you BMR is high again, going back and forth pushs your nutrient absorption hopefully higher and higher)

After one cycle my body is so use to the high cal that when I restrict the fat for those 2wks I start leaning up very quickly, BMR churning so by the time I get back to the high cal I'm absorbing a high percentage of nutrients. This type of calorie cycling is effective for me

I'm very interested about this cycling method but still think it is much too advanced for me personally. I think I will do a larger dose cycle at the end of this year but don’t think it will be a mega dose.

I'm currently on a semi-experimental dietary regimen that has to do with whole foods.

[marcus300]

I think I understand the priming part more or less now. You are getting your body metabolically ready for the large calories to come. The large calories are taken in such a shorter period your MBR is able to stay fairly high.

I have two methods of my diet, but for normal cycles… I get my BF down to the lowest possible by a regimen of moderate protein/carb 1day, lower carb/high protein for 2 days then moderate protein / high carb... repeat
Then while on I do a 2wk high cal (rich fats, processed carbs are ok) into a 2wk moderate but all whole food (low fat, whole carbs). The 2weeks are just enough to sustain my high BMR. (This is a diet based on the average body takes about two weeks for your Metabolism to change to any new diet, by the end of the high cal 2 wks your BMR starts to slow down, you then switch to a clean low fat whole food, where by the end you BMR is high again, going back and forth pushs your nutrient absorption hopefully higher and higher)

After one cycle my body is so use to the high cal that when I restrict the fat for those 2wks I start leaning up very quickly, BMR churning so by the time I get back to the high cal I'm absorbing a high percentage of nutrients. This type of calorie cycling is effective for me

I'm very interested about this cycling method but still think it is much too advanced for me personally. I think I will do a larger dose cycle at the end of this year but don’t think it will be a mega dose.

I'm currently on a semi-experimental dietary regimen that has to do with whole foods.

I have a few ways of priming and the one which i prefer is cycling my carbs 3-4 days low (40% less than normal) 1 day high carb (15% more than normal) this method works really well for me, or i slowly reduce my carbs over a period of about 10-12 weeks which gives me a good base to work from when i do start such a high dose cycle.

[vitor]

I am going to do this type of cycling in my next run...

Havent decided if it will be the 2on 4off(outlined by Bill Roberts)or if its going to be a 4-weeker. I will probaly try both and see what works best for me.

I am really tired of being on for 12 weeks, then desperatly try to hold on to the gains with natrual test-levels for the next 12 weeks+PCT, which is impossible once you get over your genetic limit.

The short-burst cycling makes more sense to me.

[marcus300]

I am going to do this type of cycling in my next run...

Havent decided if it will be the 2on 4off(outlined by Bill Roberts)or if its going to be a 4-weeker. I will probaly try both and see what works best for me.

I am really tired of being on for 12 weeks, then desperatly try to hold on to the gains with natrual test-levels for the next 12 weeks+PCT, which is impossible once you get over your genetic limit.

The short-burst cycling makes more sense to me.

Please keep me updated on your progress victor...

[Booz]

this still continues to be a great thread marcus......

[vitor]

Please keep me updated on your progress victor...

Sure...

[montysimon]

This way of usuing AAS should be used with extreme caution no matter what your level of AAS knowledge/experience.It is also imperative that a physician is consulted prior to and at regular intervals during such.
I am aware of at least one fellow BB who's sudden DEATH was attributed directly to extremely high levels of AAS,thus leading to liver toxicity levels exceeding the body's capability to maltisculate.

This guy WAS 31 and left a wife and two young children.

Anyone considering shory heavy cycles please take heed.

[marcus300]

This way of usuing AAS should be used with extreme caution no matter what your level of AAS knowledge/experience.It is also imperative that a physician is consulted prior to and at regular intervals during such.
I am aware of at least one fellow BB who's sudden DEATH was attributed directly to extremely high levels of AAS,thus leading to liver toxicity levels exceeding the body's capability to maltisculate.

This guy WAS 31 and left a wife and two young children.

Anyone considering shory heavy cycles please take heed.

You always hear of storys like this when AAS are involved,We have no idea what else he was taking or if he used orals within the cycle, which is something what you DONT do, yes this way of cycling is only for the advanced like alot of post's state this all the way through this thread.


If your advanced BB you know how to look after yourself health wise while doing such a cycle, if you dont this cycling shouldnt be run.

[rodge]

have'nt followed this thread in a while so i did'nt go through all the pages(sorry) but i was talking about it with some bb'ers, and marcus and i talked about dosages in PM, and they putted questions about the level of toxity from the amount of BA you get in your body each day during the cycle.

anybody???

-rodge

[marcus300]

have'nt followed this thread in a while so i did'nt go through all the pages(sorry) but i was talking about it with some bb'ers, and marcus and i talked about dosages in PM, and they putted questions about the level of toxity from the amount of BA you get in your body each day during the cycle.

anybody???

-rodge

All i can give is some feedback on the personal studies ive done and research over the last few years Rodge.

I've lost count on how many BB's have used this system and have sent me the results, but i can honestly say i havent heard of anyone having problems with toxity within the body, ive had an handfull of top BB's who have had their blood tests done before/durring/after this type of cycling and all have come back with no major problems, am not saying this will happen to everybody there are exceptions to everything but the majority feel that they are less prone to any kind of side effects because of the time on the cycle.

Normaly the cycles only last between 20-30 days at a time so every precaution can be looked at for such a short period of time, suppose the best way round this is for the individual to have blood tests before/durring/after and can assess the situration and react accordingly to the results.

This type of cycling is and looks very aggressive but you have to look at the lenght of time you are on for, the body can withstand alot of punishment before it reacts with sides effects/problems, but remember its only for a short period of time and before you know it your off the cycle recovering and maintaining the gains.

This is why i always advice BB's not to use ORALS within the cycle, the orals can cause problems ive seen this happen afew times when certain BB's who have tried using Orals, also this type of cycling isnt just about the AAS, its also the training/diet/priming and dedication what makes this cycling work so well.

Its only for the advanced BB who knows how to look after himself and watch out for any side effects so he can react accordingly, ive tried this way many times and i can honestly say that i have had less sides effect in everyway and produced more keepable gains than any other way of cycling ive done, i feel staying on a cycle for weeks on end after the gains have slowed down will cause and does cause problems within the body, and when you come off trying to keep hold of what you have gain seems an impossible task and coasting/bridging/HRT seems the only option.

Marcus

[Swifto]

I havent read all of this thread so I apologize if this has been mentioned.

Wouldnt HCG run throughout these short/sharp cycles by essential. The compounds and dosages will almost certainly lead to total testicular inhibition/shutdown. So, as their short, 20-30 days, why not use HCG and make recovery easier and reduce/prevent HPTA shutdown?

[marcus300]

I havent read all of this thread so I apologize if this has been mentioned.

Wouldnt HCG run throughout these short/sharp cycles by essential. The compounds and dosages will almost certainly lead to total testicular inhibition/shutdown. So, as their short, 20-30 days, why not use HCG and make recovery easier and reduce/prevent HPTA shutdown?

With recovery and shuting down everybody reacts differently, you use what ever way is best for you to bounce back, majority off BB's say its alot quicker and less tasking to recover than shuting down your system for long periods of time, Use what ever methods are best for yourself, its all about knowing your own body and how it has responded in previous cycles.

Marcus

[Swifto]

With recovery and shuting down everybody reacts differently, you use what ever way is best for you to bounce back, majority off BB's say its alot quicker and less tasking to recover than shuting down your system for long periods of time, Use what ever methods are best for yourself, its all about knowing your own body and how it has responded in previous cycles.

Marcus

True.

But if your going to be shutdown for a matter of days (20-30), why not make it essential to use HCG as your going to be shutdown for such a small amount of time?

[IBdmfkr]

I'd say try it both ways swifto. Some get shutdown more than others. Ex. I've been on for 12wks and coming off without any problems or atrophy.

It's hard to put a "must" on any kind of cycle theory.

[marcus300]

True.

But if your going to be shutdown for a matter of days (20-30), why not make it essential to use HCG as your going to be shutdown for such a small amount of time?

Yes of course swifto what ever methods works use it, but not everyone does shut down with this way of cycling, alot are fine because they havent been on long enough even with the high dosages.

Marcus

[marcus300]

I'd say try it both ways swifto. Some get shutdown more than others. Ex. I've been on for 12wks and coming off without any problems or atrophy.

It's hard to put a "must" on any kind of cycle theory.

you got it.....

[Swifto]

Yes of course swifto what ever methods works use it, but not everyone does shut down with this way of cycling, alot are fine because they havent been on long enough even with the high dosages.

Marcus

Yeah I understand. I havent done any cycles with this type of method as I'm only on my 2nd cycle and still consider myself as a beginner in the AS world. But, its deffinitely something I may consider for future cycles and I may try both ways, with/wighout HCG .

Bump for a good informative post.

[Swifto]

you got it.....

Oi....I've got it too....

[solid snake]

Hi marcus just one question.

after casing a anabolic state via the priming efect/diet can i just up my food/calaorie intake, train natraly without A.S and still make good gains as a natral/non competitive bodybuilder?

i dont use anabolic steroids exepet 0.66iu of GH and 4.0 grain tyroid extract
and thats from my HRT as you can tell from the very low dose.

[marcus300]

Hi marcus just one question.

after casing a anabolic state via the priming efect/diet can i just up my food/calaorie intake, train natraly without A.S and still make good gains as a natral/non competitive bodybuilder?

i dont use anabolic steroids exepet 0.66iu of GH and 4.0 grain tyroid extract
and thats from my HRT as you can tell from the very low dose.

Yes you can incorporate the priming with anykind of training/bodybuilding, it doesnt have to be with just a short cycle, any kind of cycling would benefit from such practise or training.

Priming is just one tool to building a body, but when you incorporate all the tools the results are and would be far greater.

Marcus

[solid snake]

Yes you can incorporate the priming with anykind of training/bodybuilding, it doesnt have to be with just a short cycle, any kind of cycling would benefit from such practise or training.

Priming is just one tool to building a body, but when you incorporate all the tools the results are and would be far greater.

Marcus

Thanks marcus for all your help and a great thread just one more question.

Can you please tell me what you think of the following program ive set up for the next 10 weeks?

6 weeks of PRIMING then 4 weeks HARDCORE TRAINIG+INCREASED CALORIES

Note: during this program i will continue my HRT as normal.

After the 10th week ill take about 3-4 weeks off and reapet.

what do you think?

[goose]

Advanced Chemical Warfare
An Interview With Paul Borresen
By Nelson Montana



The following interview is just that, an interview. We included it because we find it interesting that anyone would use such horrendously large amounts of drugs (okay, so we're sort of like the people who pull over to watch the aftermath of a car accident). In no way do we advocate such dosages, and if you were to ask each of us here at Testosterone individually, we'd probably disagree with a lot of what Paul Borresen says about steroids . Nevertheless, what he has to say makes for damn interesting reading.


TC and I got together last week and were throwing around some ideas for keeping Testosterone on the cutting edge of bodybuilding information. We spoke of upcoming articles, new training techniques, and discussed research on state-of-the-art supplements, as well as continual studies on existing products. It was easy to examine the strong points that exist within the magazine. But after patting ourselves on the back for a while, it was time to take a cold, hard look at what could be made better.

At one point, TC posed three questions. One, "Who would you be most interested in interviewing?" Two, "If there was one person you would like to see contributing to Testosterone, who would it be?" And three, "Who is the most over-the-edge, balls-to-the-wall individual you know of that you think our readers would like to hear from?" Without hesitation, I replied, "I can answer all three of those questions with the same name?Paul Borresen."

To call renegade pharmacologist Paul Borresen an authority on drug usage is an enormous understatement. When it comes to firsthand experience, Paul may very well be the authority! I can't think of too many people who have pushed the pharmacological envelope as far as Paul. Yet, what makes this remarkable man so different than many of the pro bodybuilders who merely stay on whatever gear they can get for as long as they can get it, Paul is one of the most knowledgeable people around in the science of anabolic steroids.

University trained, Paul received his bachelor's degree in biochemistry. He graduated with first-class honors. He then went on to get his master's degree in pharmacology, specializing in the study of receptor sites and their function. He's had his work published in medical journals throughout the world, written several books, and had over 200 articles appear in magazines on the various aspects of steroid use and their application to bodybuilding. When some of the top professionals need advice on how to arrange their stacks and cycles for a major show, they call Paul. That list of top professionals?according to Paul?even includes a fellow by the name of Dorian Yates.

Some people have practical knowledge. Some people have the schooling. Paul Borresen has both, not to mention a 285-pound physique that doesn't stray far from around 8% body fat! How many of today's "gurus" do you know that can make the same claim?

If you're opposed to the radical usage of performance-enhancement drugs, then move on?get the heck out of here. This article isn't for you. For those of you with a more daring nature who'd like to learn from this particular master, you may proceed?with caution.

Class is now in session.


NM: First, Paul, how are you feeling? I heard that you suffered an accident recently.

PB: Yes, I took a nasty fall and was laid up for four-and-a-half months. It required major surgery. For a long time, I was in a full body brace. While in the hospital, I went down to 170 pounds! I recovered quickly but, of course, I was receiving glutamine, Deca , and growth hormone ! It was no problem getting it into the hospital. Since then, I've entered some area contests and won, but my goal is to come back from having a broken back and win the Nationals.

NM: Any innovative substances that you've been experimenting with?

PB: Whenever there's anything new, I'll try it! You know of the new oils used to inflate a muscle, like Synthol? Well, I've put together a combination of oils in my lab that contains nandrolone , benzyl alcohol, and silica gel. It provides a permanent growth due to the fact that the silica coats the muscle fibers. But it also gives you 300 milligrams of gear per milliliter. It's really amazing, but it can be overdone, as in the case of Ernie Taylor. Have you seen his triceps?

NM: Of course. They're so freaky, they look "fake."

PB: They don't look right. That's an example of an overdone local effect. As far as anything else new, I've been experimenting with prostaglandins since '95. When I won the Northwest Championship, I had six milliliters of Cavajet, which is something that's used to get an erection. But I didn't need it there, so I put it in my arms and shoulders! I've been working with people using Prostaglandins before going to bed at night, and we've seen phenomenal results. They can also be used to provide "local" enlargement. I use it to smooth out my symmetry.

NM: Were there any side effects?

PB: I don't feel that the claims of bad side effects are all that genuine. If you look at the risks and side effects of pharmacology as a whole, prostaglandins fall pretty low down on the list.

NM: What's the typical drug regime of some of the people you coach?

PB: I'm coaching people who use two xxxxxx milligrams of gear each day. They're very big. If you're going to take that level of anabolics, I believe in very short courses?thirty days, at the most, before your body realizes what happened. I'm a firm believer that receptor sites up-regulate. When you do about 5000 milligrams a week, they respond unbelievably. People are going up a pound a day for 18 days straight.

NM: So by using super-physiologic dosages and keeping cycles short, you won't need to increase the dosages with each successive cycle?

PB: You should need less! It's like training. A newcomer does 16 sets and makes gains. The more advanced someone is, the less amount of sets they need to do. I only do about four or five sets. I'm helping Ian Harrison prepare for the Arnold, and he needs even fewer sets per workout.

NM: How long of a wait do you recommend before starting another course?

PB: At least 15 days, which comes to 21 days after your last shot. But if you wait too much longer than three weeks, you're going backwards in your progress. You'll spend time "making up" for what you've lost, even if you use anti-catabolics.

NM: Tell me a little about your company. How did it get started?

PB: A few years back, my wife and I started a company called Chemical Nutrition. Unfortunately, we took on a partner of dubious integrity. It got so bad that he threatened to put me in a body bag! I ended that relationship and started Biohazard. We've been growing very quickly in the UK, and I'm glad to say that my ex-partner's business is declining badly. I don't follow a business "strategy." I focus on culture. I want to make the best products. I won't bullshit anyone or let anyone work for me who isn't honest. I have an MBA degree, and my business philosophy is not to build an empire; rather, we want to build many castles. I want to make money, but I have to look at myself in the mirror every day. I have to respect what I see.

NM: What is the most unique Biohazard product?

PB: We have something called Ravenger 5, which is a special grade of protein powder. It has the exact amino acid make-up, in proprietary order, of human muscle?the only product of its kind. It took a lot of work getting the proper ratios required. We finally came up with a combination of whey, egg albumin, soy isolate, and wheat gluten. The glutamine is not a free form because protein works best in a natural peptide chain. I'm not a big fan of aminos in free form.

NM: You've been outspoken in the past about professional bodybuilders. You made some statements recently concerning Paul Dillett...

PB: I have nothing personal against him. He doesn't train all that hard. He's very lazy. I don't like it when bodybuilders rely on massive amounts of gear and don't train correctly or look after their health. Everyone I work with uses high androgens, and we take certain precautions. I have them all on glycerin. It reduces water and blood pressure. It's an indigestible carb, which causes water to be drawn from the surrounding tissues like the skin. It also increases vascularity.

NM: What is your current stack?

PB: For the first ten days, I take xxxx mg of Sustanon a day. Days 11 to 20, I take xxxx mg of Deca, xxxx mg of Primobolan , and xxxx mg of test propionate a day. Days 21 to 30, I do xxxx mg of propionate, xxxx mg of Winstrol , and four of my Triple X capsules, which are a homemade combination of Dinatropinol, T3, and oral insulin . I also take a xxxx-IU shot of insulin every time I eat a meal.

NM: Gee, is that all?

PB: That's what it takes. I want to make the most massive gains possible. I've gained 94 pounds in the last five months. Oh, I almost forgot?I also use growth hormone four days at a time, which is the way a child produces it, in four-day spurts. It doesn't work as well if you stay on it all the time. Consistent use suppresses your natural GH secretion, plus you build up a tolerance to its effects. I use 12 IUs of GH each day I use it.

NM: No cycling down the dosages of the steroid stack?

PB: No, I just stop. I don't feel that there's much benefit from cycling down. By distancing the shots and the half-life of the drugs, a "cycle down" occurs naturally. I want to clean out as soon as possible. When people stick in low levels of gear in order to "bridge," they're not clearing anything.

NM: Any anti-estrogens?

PB: Aminoglutathiamide is terrific when used the last ten days before a show. It makes you freaky hard. It's a pretty risky drug, however. The ACTH [Adrenal Corticol Tropic Hormone] kickback can create a bigger problem than what you started with. It's a gamble. I use Tamoxifen , 40 mg a day before bed, if I start to get too puffy.

NM: I noticed that you don't use any orals.

PB: For what I use, it wouldn't be healthy. I would hate to take 2,000 mg of 2-mg Anavar tablets!

NM: Definitely not practical. No veterinarian steroids?

PB: No. One thing I've learned from my studies in pharmacology is that mammalian physiology may be similar, but there are species differences. A veterinarian drug is developed through veterinarian research by companies that design it for animals. There aren't any studies of their effectiveness in humans. You need much higher doses than the proper human equivalent. A dog's testosterone would work in a human, just not as effectively. Since I can't control what's compatible and what isn't, I won't use them.

NM: Is there really any way of detecting counterfeits?

PB: It's so easy to fake the ampoules and boxes. Whenever you see an expos? of what is fake and how a "real" steroid should look, the counterfeiters just copy the "real" one. There are a few tricks. For example, Primo shouldn't fall out when you turn the box upside down.

NM: Unless the dealer has pulled the vial out a few times.

PB: That's a good point. In that case, it could be real, but you'd think it was fake. There's just no way of knowing. Some guys over here copied the pink pentagon Thai D-bol and put 5 mg of clenbuterol in them.

NM: Five milligrams?! My God, did anyone die?

PB: There were nine reported deaths. I took one, and went into the hospital.

NM: What's your present association with Dorian Yates?

PB: I take a phone call from Dorian every couple of weeks about technical matters. He'll usually have me come down to his house and ask me about various drugs. I showed him how to use growth hormone and IGF. I helped him with his DNP usage for his last Olympia show. I can honestly say that DNP can produce a condition that's unbelievable, but you've got to get it right! I find it horrendous. My temperature went up to 103 degrees. I was sick, and it felt like I was on fire.

NM: So in the future, will you just stick to using clen ?

PB: No, I'd still use the DNP. I'll just suffer. It can make you lose five pounds of fat in a week. My waist is 31 inches. That's also one benefit of being in the hospital. I had to have two ribs removed, which made my waist slimmer. Cher had a similar surgical procedure done on her to produce a longer torso look. I love it!

NM: What is the best steroid, in your opinion?

PB: If I had to recommend just one, I'd have to say that Deca has the best risk to benefit ratio. But my absolute favorite drug is Primobolan.

NM: I love Primo, too. People think it's weak because it doesn't produce water weight. Deca, on the other hand, bloats me as much as straight testosterone.

PB: You're telling me! Deca is very bloating. Not all tests cause as much water retention. But some people seem to go for that bloat, don't they? They equate it with more size.

NM: What drugs don't you like?

PB: I don't like testosterone cypionate . It's a very raw drug. It also makes you depressed. Anadrol is a shit drug. The fact that it's a 50-mg tablet tells you how weak it is.

NM: I've often made that same point, but it's amazing how many people don't "get" it. The low-dosed drugs, like Winstrol, build the most muscle.

PB: Winstrol is a very potent tissue-building drug in the truest sense! As far as effectiveness in building muscle, 50 mg of Winny tabs will blow 50 mg of Anadrol right out of the water!

NM: Thank you! It's nice to know I'm not alone in that evaluation.

PB: It's so obvious. Anadrol is designed to correct anemia. It builds red blood cells. It does not build muscle. It may help at the end of a course to "fill up" on blood, which may help you to hold on to the gained weight. It's a poor man's EPO [erythropoietin]. If I wanted to make a lot of money, I'd design a drug and call it Super-bol 5,000,000! Everyone will think it's really strong!

People have so much of this stuff wrong. They think that Primo's weak, when it's actually very strong. They say that Anadrol is powerful, when it's actually very weak. Cypionate is more popular than enanthate , but the enanthate is terrific and cyp is crap. They draw conclusions without really understanding basic pharmacology. People should be using the finer, sophisticated drugs like Primo and Winstrol, not cypionates and the veterinarian products. It's so absurd!

NM: Does it make sense not to stack too many different steroids?

PB: All steroids compete with each other. That's why I say to take Sus for ten days, then Deca for ten days, and so on. Proviron is thought to be an anti-estrogen, but it's really an anti-androgen. Clomid is an underrated anti-estrogen.

NM: How does Clomid differ from Cyclofenil ?

PB: Cyclofenil is a weak estrogen. Even if it competes for estrogen sites, some might get through. Clomid removes the estrogen, so it's much more effective.

NM: Who's the most outrageous steroid abuser you've ever known?

PB: I'd love to say, but I can't.

NM: You don't have to name names.

PB: Okay, the craziest thing that I've ever seen was done by a British pro. He takes a 100-ml bottle and sticks whatever he can get into it, no matter what. Deca, cyp, Equipoise , anything! He'll then take a five-ml shot of that every three hours.

NM: Wow!

PB: He'll also put in ten mg of propionate every day into specific body parts. He doesn't consider that a part of his stack because it's "locating." He does a total of at least 60 shots a day.

NM: That's mind-boggling. How does he look?

PB: Pretty ****ing awesome!

NM: No doubt! Paul, are there any last comments that you'd like to make?

PB: I just want to be able to provide accurate information and sell products that I know are effective. My motto is, "Ignorance kills?let's kill ignorance." I honestly believe that if we give the people the right information, we'll build this sport. There are a lot of assholes with too much power in our sport!

NM: I agree. We're doing what we can on this end. I hope that you'll be able to be a regular contributor to Testosterone. Your expertise is invaluable, and I'm sure that our readers will enjoy what you have to say.

PB: I'd love to write for you guys, and providing honest information to people who care is the right reason for doing so.

NM: Paul, I know that there's still so much we could talk about. Let's do this again sometime.

PB: That'd be great.


Whew! Did anybody out there get hurt? I'm sure that I don't have to offer a disclaimer to the drug dosages that Paul has advocated. This is obviously for the most advanced bodybuilder with extensive experience in chemical assistance. Nevertheless, Paul's comprehension of the subject is unquestionably vast, and I'm sure that he's left more than a few people with their heads spinning.

Class dismissed.

[marcus300]

Id delete the dose what is mentioned, just in case goose.

Marcus

[goose]

This is one of the best threads ever,It is an adult site....I can see your point of view marcus..but this is not the paul and british way...education is the way the way forward.I got much love and repect for you,we can`t agree on
everything.You have cleary stated the dangers and the Precautions of this
ideology of Cycling,but I guess your right..


goose...

[marcus300]

This is one of the best threads ever,It is an adult site....I can see your point of view marcus..but this is not the paul and british way...education is the way the way forward.I got much love and repect for you,we can`t agree on
everything.You have cleary stated the dangers and the Precautions of this
ideology of Cycling,but I guess your right..


goose...

Thanks for the compliment goose,

I know its an adult site but there are alot of newbies use this site also and i think mentioning such aggressive dosages wouldnt be good for them.

Speak soon goose.

Marcus

[IBdmfkr]

Nice find Goose, Enjoyed the read.

[G-Force]

Proviron is thought to be an anti-estrogen, but it's really an anti-androgen. .


huh?

i was waiting for this guy to explain this statement - but he never did
can anyone explain?

i'm using proviron now and would hate to think it is lessening the effect of my androgens

[goose]

Proviron is thought to be an anti-estrogen, but it's really an anti-androgen. .


huh?

i was waiting for this guy to explain this statement - but he never did
can anyone explain?

i'm using proviron now and would hate to think it is lessening the effect of my androgens

It`s quite an interesting idea,remember this is quite dated and his ideas are very advanced,the idea I get is a pro would not use Proviron as an anti E under his guidance, suggesting Proviron is best used for PCT,which makes perfect sence.


goose...

[G-Force]

it doesnt make perfect sense to me

ok i'm no expert but from what ive read - proviron increases the effectiveness of testosterone - reduces water retention completely eliminates estrogen, increases hardness of muscles and aids in fat loss

why would u not wand that as part of your cycle?

[vitor]

It does not make sense to me either. Proviron binds to SHBG, which will free up more Testosterone to be available for muscle grow.

Proviron an anti-androgen??? Typo mistake for sure.

Proviron has a structure similar to DHT, which is of a powerful androgen. Proviron is also used in medicine for men who are impotent, because androgens and DHT plays a vital part in sex-drive.

[marcus300]

it doesnt make perfect sense to me

ok i'm no expert but from what ive read - proviron increases the effectiveness of testosterone - reduces water retention completely eliminates estrogen, increases hardness of muscles and aids in fat loss

why would u not wand that as part of your cycle?

Ive seen both studies regarding this issue about proviron, PB always adviced me not to use it within a cycle, but alot of others disagreed with him, so i took it upon myself to do my own research. I found i responded better without it durring a cycle and it was a very valuable tool to have in pct.

Ive tried both ways many times and for ME the benefits are far greater to use proviron in pct than within a cycle, many others would disagree and thats fine i wouldnt argue with them, because if its works for them who is anybody to say it doesnt. This is the trouble with studies regarding anything to do with the body and chemicals, there are many conflicting ones around i think the best thing to do is try both ways and go with the one what works for you.

Proviron is an amazing compound without doubt,i find it an assett to have it and run it in pct, to many benefits for it not to be used in my opinion, we all get information from somewhere regarding compounds but when there is some disagreement best bet is to try both ways and record the results and do what works best for you.

Marcus

[goose]

An extremely interesting post marcus,I have heard of this concept a few times as `Proviron an anti-androgen` but you would only notice the difference if your a very advanced BB.I do remember an article in ... Anabolic Insider which wrote about this idea...will try and find..This is my take on Proviron it is not Neccary as your anti E,you have other great drugs that do the job better,nothing competes with Proviron as a libido aid in PCT that does not effect your HPTA.


goose..

[IBdmfkr]

Marcus what would proper dosage/duration be for proviron during PCT and would it be good to run it along side aromasin IYO.
Also with short burst cycles is PCT recommended for the same duration as a 10-12wk cycle?

[marcus300]

Marcus what would proper dosage/duration be for proviron during PCT and would it be good to run it along side aromasin IYO.
Also with short burst cycles is PCT recommended for the same duration as a 10-12wk cycle?

I feel this is an indivdual thing again but i use 50-75mg ED, the duration depends on when i feel ive recovered, but normaly its alot faster than the normal cycles of 10-12wks.

Recovery is alot faster with shorter cycles , ive found this even with short light and short heavy its just alot easier and quicker to bounce back and that means holding onto the gains more.If all the correct things are in place with a short cycles (compounds/prime/training/diet) the gains are as good or even better than the long ones and maintance is easier.

Marcus

[Black R/T]

Marcus, you are the ****ing man! i know there is no way i could have gained this much weight this quickly if i hadnt listened to your priming theory. i was about 175lbs when i read your thread for the first time. i figured id try it. i dropped down to 168lbs by the start of my cylce and lost another 3 lbs over the next 3 days. im on day 10 of a prop and npp cycle (log on it in the members cycle results) and ive already made it to 176lbs! thats 11lbs in like 7 or 8 days!

im convinced, thanks bro

[ktw]

http://anabolicextreme.com/anabolic/...zinterview.htm

Not to dismiss your theory behind short cycling, I plan on trying it (but not in insane doses, more along the moderate lines illustrated in the other post can't remember the users name right now), but I would not trust anything related to Paul or his writing based on all of the accounts of him not actually having any real degree whatsoever.

[IBdmfkr]

Now a degree is required for someone to be listened to that has a wealth of knowledge. Nothing should be praised or dismissed but rather studied and experimented with to see what fits. JMO.