Experts Please Help(receptor Question)

[goldsgymmiami]

THIS IS THE SECOND TIME I HAVE POSTED THIS THE LINK BELOW SHOWS THE RESPONSES I GOT FROM THE LAST TIME I POSTED MY THREAD PLEASE HELP I DIDNT GET I GOOD CLEAN ANSWER ONE OF THE MAIN QUESTION IS

SHOULD I USE HCG AM ON MY THIRD WEEK TO SEE IF THAT WILL HELP WITH MY GAINS?

PLEASE READ BELOW TO SEE ABOUT MY ISSUE THANKS
.
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=224787

[Pinnacle]

SHOULD I USE HCG AM ON MY THIRD WEEK TO SEE IF THAT WILL HELP WITH MY GAINS?

You can use HCG,but it won't help with your gains.

~Pinnacle~

[anabolicbruce]

The Doctor that monitors me while I cycle recommends HCG throughout the entire cycle (250iu bi-weekly), very similiar to SWALE's protocol. Since I have been doing this, my recovery is awesome, and I feel MUCH better while 'on". I have read studies that show Hcg keeps "intratesticular testosterone" optimal even while on exogeneous hormones. Gonadotropins also stimulate enzymes in the brain that elevate mood and well-being.

[anabolicbruce]

Low-dose human chorionic gonadotropin maintains intratesticular testosterone in normal men with testosterone-induced gonadotropin suppression.

Coviello AD, Matsumoto AM, Bremner WJ, Herbst KL, Amory JK, Anawalt BD, Sutton PR, Wright WW, Brown TR, Yan X, Zirkin BR, Jarow JP.

Department of Medicine, University of Washington School of Medicine, Seattle, Washington 98195, USA. [email protected]

In previous studies of testicular biopsy tissue from healthy men, intratesticular testosterone (ITT) has been shown to be much higher than serum testosterone (T), suggesting that high ITT is needed relative to serum T for normal spermatogenesis in men. However, the quantitative relationship between ITT and spermatogenesis is not known. To begin to address this issue experimentally, we determined the dose-response relationship between human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG) and ITT to ascertain the minimum dose needed to maintain ITT in the normal range. Twenty-nine men with normal reproductive physiology were randomized to receive 200 mg T enanthate weekly in combination with either s****e placebo or 125, 250, or 500 IU hCG every other day for 3 wk. ITT was assessed in testicular fluid obtained by percutaneous fine needle aspiration at baseline and at the end of treatment. Baseline serum T (14.1 nmol/liter) was 1.2% of ITT (1174 nmol/liter). LH and FSH were profoundly suppressed to 5% and 3% of baseline, respectively, and ITT was suppressed by 94% (1234 to 72 nmol/liter) in the T enanthate/placebo group. ITT increased linearly with increasing hCG dose (P < 0.001). Posttreatment ITT was 25% less than baseline in the 125 IU hCG group, 7% less than baseline in the 250 IU hCG group, and 26% greater than baseline in the 500 IU hCG group. These results demonstrate that relatively low dose hCG maintains ITT within the normal range in healthy men with gonadotropin suppression. Extensions of this study will allow determination of the ITT concentration threshold required to maintain spermatogenesis in man.



There has been a lot of debate regarding the use of HCG during and after cycles. The FEW doctors that are actually well versed in the pharmacology of AAS and TRT at the A4M conferences will tell you that HCg is an intelligent addition to your cycle. The most recent studies have dis-credited the old claim that HCg desensitizes Lydig cells, as long as it is used in physiological doses (under 500iu) and an AI or SERM is used in conjunction. Thought you guys would like this-

BTW, since my doc has me using HCG (250iu bi-weekly) I feel MUCH better during and after my cycles. Apparently there is certain enzymes in the brain stimulated by gonadotropins that elevate mood and well-being.

[Swifto]

Low-dose human chorionic gonadotropin maintains intratesticular testosterone in normal men with testosterone-induced gonadotropin suppression.

Coviello AD, Matsumoto AM, Bremner WJ, Herbst KL, Amory JK, Anawalt BD, Sutton PR, Wright WW, Brown TR, Yan X, Zirkin BR, Jarow JP.

Department of Medicine, University of Washington School of Medicine, Seattle, Washington 98195, USA. [email protected]

In previous studies of testicular biopsy tissue from healthy men, intratesticular testosterone (ITT) has been shown to be much higher than serum testosterone (T), suggesting that high ITT is needed relative to serum T for normal spermatogenesis in men. However, the quantitative relationship between ITT and spermatogenesis is not known. To begin to address this issue experimentally, we determined the dose-response relationship between human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG) and ITT to ascertain the minimum dose needed to maintain ITT in the normal range. Twenty-nine men with normal reproductive physiology were randomized to receive 200 mg T enanthate weekly in combination with either s****e placebo or 125, 250, or 500 IU hCG every other day for 3 wk. ITT was assessed in testicular fluid obtained by percutaneous fine needle aspiration at baseline and at the end of treatment. Baseline serum T (14.1 nmol/liter) was 1.2% of ITT (1174 nmol/liter). LH and FSH were profoundly suppressed to 5% and 3% of baseline, respectively, and ITT was suppressed by 94% (1234 to 72 nmol/liter) in the T enanthate/placebo group. ITT increased linearly with increasing hCG dose (P < 0.001). Posttreatment ITT was 25% less than baseline in the 125 IU hCG group, 7% less than baseline in the 250 IU hCG group, and 26% greater than baseline in the 500 IU hCG group. These results demonstrate that relatively low dose hCG maintains ITT within the normal range in healthy men with gonadotropin suppression. Extensions of this study will allow determination of the ITT concentration threshold required to maintain spermatogenesis in man.



There has been a lot of debate regarding the use of HCG during and after cycles. The FEW doctors that are actually well versed in the pharmacology of AAS and TRT at the A4M conferences will tell you that HCg is an intelligent addition to your cycle. The most recent studies have dis-credited the old claim that HCg desensitizes Lydig cells, as long as it is used in physiological doses (under 500iu) and an AI or SERM is used in conjunction. Thought you guys would like this-

BTW, since my doc has me using HCG (250iu bi-weekly) I feel MUCH better during and after my cycles. Apparently there is certain enzymes in the brain stimulated by gonadotropins that elevate mood and well-being.

I've read a bit on HCG suppression of Ganadotropins can be prevented/blocked with Nolva's use. In Hookers new book he states,

"What I found when I researched this combination (HCG/Nolva) is that it can be argued that HCG's supressive effect on endogenous testesterone is (monstly? Totally?) due the HCG actually blocking the conversion of 17 alpha-hydroxyprogesterone (17 OHP) into testosterone. Nolvadex stops this blocking action of HCG from taking place. In fact, any suppression of Ganadotropins via HCG is almost totally stopped with concurrent administration of Nolvadex."

[anabolicbruce]

yes, that is absolutly true. In fact, my last cycle I ran HCg all throught the cycle and for 3 additional weeks after my last shot (until AAS cleared my system) and swtiched from arimidex to nolva, and PCT was CAKE!!!!

[Swifto]

Andrologia 1991 Mar-Apr;23(2):109-14.


Effect of an antiestrogen on the testicular response to acute and chronic administration of hCG in normal and hypogonadotropic hypogonadic men: tamoxifen and testicular response to hCG.

Levalle OA, Suescun MO, Fiszlejder L, Aszpis S, Charreau E, Guitelman A, Calandra R.

Division Endocrinologia, Hospital Carlos Durand, Instituto de Biologia y Medicina Experimental, Buenos Aires, Argentina.

The effect of the antiestrogen tamoxifen (Tx) on the acute and chronic hCG administration was evaluated in patients with hypogonadotropic hypogonadism (HH) and in normal men. An hCG test (5000 IU hCG) was performed before, after two months of hCG administration (2000 IU hCG three times weekly) and after two months of hCG + Tx (2000 IU hCG three times weekly plus 20 mg/day of tamoxifen). Blood samples were obtained before and following 24 and 72 h of every test to determine T, E, 17OHP and SHBG. T increased only in HH with both treatments (X +/- SEM: Basal: 97.9 +/- 19.7; hCG: 237.7 +/- 43.2; hCG +/- Tx: 204.7 +/- 10.7 ng/100 ml). 17OHP rose with hCG alone, but not with hCG + Tx in both groups. E, SHBG and 17OHP/T ratio did not change after treatments. hCG tests: E increased 24 h following hCG administration in every test. The ratio 17OHP/T rose at 24 h in the first and second test but in the third test it did not change. These results support the role of E in the acute hCG-induced Leydig cell desensitization. However, the association of Tx does not improve T serum levels, suggesting that E might not be the unique factor involved in the mechanisms for testicular desensitization.

[anabolicbruce]

great article, I started a new thread on HCg, would be great to post this there in order to get a great HCg discussion going!!

[Swifto]

great article, I started a new thread on HCg, would be great to post this there in order to get a great HCg discussion going!!

Just started a new thread with them both in. I didnt forget to give you credit for the first study, well done, good informative post.

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...63#post2485463