Use PROVIRON during PCT!

[Swifto]

Use PROVIRON during PCT!

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I use Proviron during PCT and I know a few other memebers here also do. Below are the reasons why, I feel, it a good addition to a PCT protocol.

Firstly, I'm not advising you to use Proviron as the primary weapon at restoring the HPTA after the use of androgens. Its more of an addition to an already proven PCT protocol. For example, I use it with HCG /Nolva. Others can use it with Clomid/Nolva. Whatever seems to work successfully for you is what I'm getting at.

Secondly, the reason I say, not to use it as you primary weapon, is that it only has the ability to raise serum levels of LH/FSH slightly. Its simply not as effective as Clomid/Nolva and should replace either of them. This is another reason why it should be an addition to your PCT, not a replacment.

Third, Proviron will bind to the aromatase enzyme reducing estrogen levels effectively. It can be used for this purpose whilst "on" to combat estrogen related sides and during PCT. It is, however, not as good as Letro/Aromasin /Arimdex at this action. This is why other AI's are advised during PCT, in conjuction with Proviron. Another reason why its an additon, not a replacment!

Fourth, Proviron has a very high binding affinity to SHBG. Which reduces free floating testosterone , synthetic or naturally produced. We want to try and raise testosterone levels during PCT, so we attain the gains we have achieved whilst cycling. So...It would seem logical to use a compound that has a high binding affinity to SHBG during PCT, right? As Proviron has one of the highest binding affinites to SHBG (if not the highest) it serves another purpose here. Reduce SHBG and increase free floating testosterone and your body is catabolic for less time, increasing the chances of attaining gains. It can also be used when cycling to reduce levels of SHBG and may help to break through a plateu you've encountered mid/end of the cycle.

Another quality that Proviron can claim is that it will incease your sex drive. I'm sure many memebers will agree, this stuff is a bodybuilders viagra! At 25+mgs/ED I've seen it documented to increase ones sex drive. This is one of its best qualities as during PCT your sex drive takes time to come back. So why not mask it till it returns, with Proviron? If your sex drive isnt prevelant during PCT, mine certinaly isnt, masking it with the use of Proviron is the answer. Bloodwork is advised though, as you may not fully know when your sex drive and testosterone levels have recovered.

Lastly and most importantly, Proviron will not hinder your HPTA, even at high doses. This is why I feel Proviron is ok to use during PCT. If it doesnt hinder recovery during PCT, I dont see any reason why not to add it to your PCT protocol. Below are 2 studies demonstrating that Proviron will have no negative affect on the HPTA, even at doses of 150mg/ED for 12 months:



Effect of non aromatizable androgens on LHRH and TRH responses in primary testicular failure.

Spitz IM, Margalioth EJ, Yeger Y, Livshin Y, Zylber-Haran E, Shilo S.

We have assessed the gonadotropin, TSH and PRL responses to the non aromatizable androgens, mesterolone and fluoxymestrone, in 27 patients with primary testicular failure. All patients were given a bolus of LHRH (100 micrograms) and TRH (200 micrograms) at zero time. Nine subjects received a further bolus of TRH at 30 mins. The latter were then given mesterolone 150 mg daily for 6 weeks. The remaining subjects received fluoxymesterone 5 mg daily for 4 weeks and 10 mg daily for 2 weeks. On the last day of the androgen administration, the subjects were re-challenged with LHRH and TRH according to the identical protocol. When compared to controls, the patients had normal circulating levels of testosterone , estradiol, PRL and thyroid hormones. However, basal LH, FSH and TSH levels, as well as gonadotropin responses to LHRH and TSH and PRL responses to TRH, were increased.



The effect of mesterolone on sperm count, on serum follicle stimulating hormone, luteinizing hormone, plasma testosterone and outcome in idiopathic oligospermic men.

Varma TR, Patel RH.

Department of Obstetrics & Gynaecology, St. George's Hospital Medical School London, U.K.

Two hundred fifty subfertile men with idiopathic oligospermia (count less than 20 million/ml) were treated with mesterolone (100-150 mg/day) for 12 months. Seminal analysis were assayed 3 times and serum follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) luteinizing hormone (LH) and plasma testosterone were assayed once before treatment and repeated at 3, 6, 9 and 12 months after the initiation of treatment. One hundred ten patients (44%) had normal serum FSH, LH and plasma testosterone, 85 patients (34%) had low serum FSH, LH and low plasma testosterone. One hundred seventy-five patients (70%) had moderate oligospermia (count 5 to less than 20 million/ml) and 75 patients (30%) had severe oligospermia (count less than 5 million/ml). Seventy-five moderately oligospermic patients showed significant improvement in the sperm density, total sperm count and motility following mesterolone therapy whereas only 12% showed improvement in the severe oligospermic group. Mesterolone had no depressing effect on low or normal serum FSH and LH levels but had depressing effect on 25% if the levels were elevated. There was no significant adverse effect on testosterone levels or on liver function. One hundred fifteen (46%) pregnancies resulted following the treatment, 9 of 115 (7.8%) aborted and 2 (1.7%) had ectopic pregnancy. Mesterolone was found to be more useful in patients with a sperm count ranging between 5 and 20 million/ml. Those with severe oligospermia (count less than 5 million) do not seem to benefit from this therapy.

[HUNTER1]

very good info! i also run proviron on pct. couldn't agree with you more.

[Swifto]

very good info! i also run proviron on pct. couldn't agree with you more.

Thanks. I hope this one gets read. Swimming now, but will be back.

[SPIKE]

Bizump.........

[marcus300]

I think the benefits from this compound are excellent for post cycle, ive ran it many times with a cycle and just for pct and i can honestly say using it in pct are far better for me personaly. Defo i must!!

[Pinnacle]

Why not post the studies showing prov is suppressive to test levels?I don't have them handy to post,but I've read them.With that said,I don't think prov at PCT is a good idea at all.

[SPIKE]

Well I've read that Proviron at very high doses can and will be suppressive. But considering the doses we take it shouldnt be. Key words being shouldnt be.......

[marcus300]

Why not post the studies showing prov is suppressive to test levels?I don't have them handy to post,but I've read them.With that said,I don't think prov at PCT is a good idea at all.

Have you tried it pinn for pct?
I have tried this compound many ways and i can only say what it does for me best, i dont like it with a cycle i much prefer it for pct the benefits are far greater to help me in this stage after a cycle, the trouble with studies is there are loads of conflicting ones around one says one thing another say something different, i normaly study how it effects me personaly and decide that way, i am very in tune with my body and my body reacts to the slightest thing so am sure proviron works great for me in pct, others may disagree but many will agree.

hope your well pinn

[Pinnacle]

Have you tried it pinn for pct?
I have tried this compound many ways and i can only say what it does for me best, i dont like it with a cycle i much prefer it for pct the benefits are far greater to help me in this stage after a cycle, the trouble with studies is there are loads of conflicting ones around one says one thing another say something different, i normaly study how it effects me personaly and decide that way, i am very in tune with my body and my body reacts to the slightest thing so am sure proviron works great for me in pct, others may disagree but many will agree.

hope your well pinn

PCT?What's that?

I agree,studies can be confusing.I just wanted to throw that out there..ppl need to know both sides of the coin.
What works for one,doesn't work for another....experimentation is what is needed in most cases.

[marcus300]

PCT?What's that?:lol:

I agree,studies can be confusing.I just wanted to throw that out there..ppl need to know both sides of the coin.
What works for one,doesn't work for another....experimentation is what is needed in most cases.

try it sometime

[Swifto]

At very high doses it probably is suppressive, but I havent seen these. I meant high doses as in 100-150mg/ED, but I guess thats not high doses to some. What I was trying to imply is that its not a suppressive compound in relevively high doses of 100-150mg/ED.

[Swifto]

Why not post the studies showing prov is suppressive to test levels?I don't have them handy to post,but I've read them.With that said,I don't think prov at PCT is a good idea at all.

What mg was it suppressive to testosterone levels ?

[Maetenloch]

[oops - I just realized he already included it...]

Here's the abstract of the study he's referring to:

Varma TR, Patel RH.

Department of Obstetrics & Gynaecology, St. George's Hospital Medical School London, U.K.

Two hundred fifty subfertile men with idiopathic oligospermia (count less than 20 million/ml) were treated with mesterolone (100-150 mg/day) for 12 months. Seminal analysis were assayed 3 times and serum follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) luteinizing hormone (LH) and plasma testosterone were assayed once before treatment and repeated at 3, 6, 9 and 12 months after the initiation of treatment. One hundred ten patients (44%) had normal serum FSH, LH and plasma testosterone, 85 patients (34%) had low serum FSH, LH and low plasma testosterone. One hundred seventy-five patients (70%) had moderate oligospermia (count 5 to less than 20 million/ml) and 75 patients (30%) had severe oligospermia (count less than 5 million/ml). Seventy-five moderately oligospermic patients showed significant improvement in the sperm density, total sperm count and motility following mesterolone therapy whereas only 12% showed improvement in the severe oligospermic group. Mesterolone had no depressing effect on low or normal serum FSH and LH levels but had depressing effect on 25% if the levels were elevated. There was no significant adverse effect on testosterone levels or on liver function. One hundred fifteen (46%) pregnancies resulted following the treatment, 9 of 115 (7.8%) aborted and 2 (1.7%) had ectopic pregnancy. Mesterolone was found to be more useful in patients with a sperm count ranging between 5 and 20 million/ml. Those with severe oligospermia (count less than 5 million) do not seem to benefit from this therapy.

PMID: 2892728 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

[SPIKE]

The effect of mesterolone on sperm count, on serum follicle stimulating hormone, luteinizing hormone, plasma testosterone and outcome in idiopathic oligospermic men.

Varma TR, Patel RH.

Department of Obstetrics & Gynaecology, St. George's Hospital Medical School London, U.K.

Two hundred fifty subfertile men with idiopathic oligospermia (count less than 20 million/ml) were treated with mesterolone (100-150 mg/day) for 12 months. Seminal analysis were assayed 3 times and serum follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) luteinizing hormone (LH) and plasma testosterone were assayed once before treatment and repeated at 3, 6, 9 and 12 months after the initiation of treatment. One hundred ten patients (44%) had normal serum FSH, LH and plasma testosterone, 85 patients (34%) had low serum FSH, LH and low plasma testosterone. One hundred seventy-five patients (70%) had moderate oligospermia (count 5 to less than 20 million/ml) and 75 patients (30%) had severe oligospermia (count less than 5 million/ml). Seventy-five moderately oligospermic patients showed significant improvement in the sperm density, total sperm count and motility following mesterolone therapy whereas only 12% showed improvement in the severe oligospermic group. Mesterolone had no depressing effect on low or normal serum FSH and LH levels but had depressing effect on 25% if the levels were elevated. There was no significant adverse effect on testosterone levels or on liver function. One hundred fifteen (46%) pregnancies resulted following the treatment, 9 of 115 (7.8%) aborted and 2 (1.7%) had ectopic pregnancy. Mesterolone was found to be more useful in patients with a sperm count ranging between 5 and 20 million/ml. Those with severe oligospermia (count less than 5 million) do not seem to benefit from this therapy.

PMID: 2892728 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

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Basically says the same thing AR has in his Profile..................

[SPIKE]

[oops - I just realized he already included it...]
Here's the abstract of the study he's referring to:

Who's he?

Popular study huh?

[Pinnacle]

try it sometime

PCT?..Are you mad?I'm not a believer in taking one step forward and 2 back....life's too short

[Pinnacle]

What mg was it suppressive to testosterone levels?

Do a search.The studies have been posted on this board.I can't remember the doses bro...

[vitor]

I have used Proviron at 50mgs ed during PCT, and recovery was fine. Proviron defently helps with keeping strenght and libido after coming off.

The reasen why I think Proviron is almost non-supressive is because it never reaches the androgen-recepter, because its enzymatically converted to the diol. Thats why proviron is not anabolic either.

I belive Proviron is only supressive in very high dosages, as the "Pituitary" might take notice of the increased androgen-levels in the blood, when using 150mgs+ed(roughly speaking)

[SPIKE]

Do a search.The studies have been posted on this board.I can't remember the doses bro...

I cant either but remember them being quite high. Up and above like 300mgs ED. Dont hold me to that but I'm sure studies will be around that.

I can see swifto now, he's going to spend the next 2 hours looking up studies while others are racking up their post count.

This is what it comes down to though. Real life experience and scientific studies to back them up. Combine all of that and one day hopefully we can look that kid from MTV "I"m on steroids ." "I feel like Zues right now."

[Swifto]

I cant either but remember them being quite high. Up and above like 300mgs ED. Dont hold me to that but I'm sure studies will be around that.

I can see swifto now, he's going to spend the next 2 hours looking up studies while others are racking up their post count.

This is what it comes down to though. Real life experience and scientific studies to back them up. Combine all of that and one day hopefully we can look that kid from MTV "I"m on steroids ." "I feel like Zues right now."

You said it!

I've looked on PubMed already and cant find much. I'll carry on.

[vitor]

Studies are fine , but "Personal experiences" are most intresting, atleast to me.

[Swifto]

Just found this, by Big kig.

Proviron: Should it be a vital part of PCT?

[Swifto]

Another quality is that its isnt a very hypatoxic compound.

[Booz]

Studies are fine , but "Personal experiences" are most intresting, atleast to me.

yes i agree vitor personal exp with these compounds are better than scientific studies in my eyes!!

[SPIKE]

So did we all conclude that Proviron isnt suppresive at the doses we take it at but can and will be at extremely high doses?

It's always nice to have closure..............

[SS1476]

Nice read guys, thanks.

Just found this, by Big kig.

Proviron: Should it be a vital part of PCT?

Ive been looking for that one, thanks swifto

[doublefister]

just wanted to bump this again because I feel its very good info...

[Swifto]

Getting a few PM's on this, BUMP!

[Biggyb]

dude nice post. ive been begging for info on proviron its like pulling freakin teeth around here. ive been considering using the 60-25mgs i recently aquired for the last 4 wks of my next cycle like my buddy suggested but the more research i do the more sense it makes to me to stick with nolva during and after and add the proviron onto the pct.

[Testostack]

Very interesting Swifto!!!)

How the tbol going btw?

[MoBigsley]

Swems to make sense to me as a matter of fact I thought to use proviron but have not as I have heard from a lot of people not to as it is hinders hpta restoration.

That said I think I will try it but I have one question.

Coming from someone who has nightmare cholesterol levels while on does proviron have an affect on your lipid profile?

[taiboxa]

whats pct?

[BajanBastard]

Proviron rarely has any negative effect on cholesterol.

[RobbieG]

whats pct?

LolLOL! !!

PCT is liek trenbolan you know

just use trenbolan for pct its best, and clenbuterol is also good for pct

[Testostack]

PCT?..Are you mad?I'm not a believer in taking one step forward and 2 back....life's too short

Woow, wait, are you saying you don't do Pcts? i got that wrong i guess.....


That apart, 'sup Pinn, where you been at?

[taiboxa]

Woow, wait, are you saying you don't do Pcts? i got that wrong i guess.....


That apart, 'sup Pinn, where you been at?

he cruises on hrt doses

[ianchov]

wow..
good read ..don`t know why i have missed it..

[I_Want_Abs]

hey swifto thanks for the informative post, i am about to start pct this saturday and have been using 100mg proviron ED from the day of my last injection and will go through 4 weeks of pct at 100mg ED also with clomid and aromasin .
i've got to say my libido is through the roof at the moment and was never this good through my cycle i literaly cant stop thinking of sex throughout the day, i cant wait to see how i go through pct i love this stuff.

[Testostack]

he cruises on hrt doses

Is that a better option, just try to figure out now that i read that.....

[Giants11]

Is that a better option, just try to figure out now that i read that.....

It is if you are on HRT.