Competitions

[dumbells101]

Contrar EC there is a lot to gainining natural and the rewards from those efforts far exceed those from juice use. Bodybuilding may not be the "normal" sport but un-natural? Come on...who's to say what is considered natural ( in life that is). If sitting in front of the TV eating chips is natural then I and millions of us whether using drugs or not are not natural. Bodybuilding has two parts and is not just competition. The guy who builds his body to look his best and have the greatest lifestyle when he is 80 or older is a bodybuilder just like the guy who's hitting the stage. Similar healthy habits with a few exceptions. WE bodybuilders are the "Natural" ones...the rest just lazy slugs!

[silverfox]

Well I trained for 6-8 years natural was 5'9" 220 before i ever juiced. Not fair to call juicers lazy, we have to train just as hard and eat right just the same. If you don't believe that, ask 90% of this board. I agree, that some guys relay on gear too much, but most of use realize you get big the following ways:

1. FOOD 2. FOOD 3. FOOD, 4. Intense Triaining, 5. Rest, 6. "supplements"

OOOPS,,, sorry dumbell101 , read your post wrong the 1st time. But will leave my up, as i think it's important.

I have no problems with someone who bodybuilds to maintain their health. Yes i aggree, there are way to may lazy SOPs around now, just look at a grade one class at any school, more fat kids than ever before, why? Too much TV, too many video games, too much "junk food".

[Pete235]

Actually EC I think DB101 was refering to the millions of couch potatos as lazy...not bodybuilders who happen to use gear. I think there was a miscommunication. What I read was that all of us bodybuilders (natural and chemically enhanced) are the natural ones and the millions of slovely shiftless ass sitters are the un-natural ones. Correct me if I'm wrong DB. Oh yeah....I've spoken with EC on many occasions, he like me took things as far as he could naturally before turning to gear. Not that you needed back up EC but I got your back

P

[dumbells101]

Right Pete...No dis to EC of course my point is that bodybuilding is a solid healthy lifestyle and that To millions who sweat in the gym for themseves and not for the stage are "normal IMO. Now on the other hand the whole competition scene is NOT healthy. The lifestyle is, but the dieting, much of the gear use, the manipulation...that my friends is not natural and by no means normal. Agreed?

[Pete235]

Originally posted by dumbells101
The lifestyle is, but the dieting, much of the gear use, the manipulation...that my friends is not natural and by no means normal. Agreed?

I agree. However, once you reach a certain level in mosts sports the risks involved, and the possible illegalities of preparing for said sport, increase dramatically. With a few exceptions most amateur and professional sports involve some kind of drug use and/or doping. This is not justification...merely a comment on the state of sport. With bodybuilding especially it is imperative to look your absolute best on stage, posing trunks hide NOTHING. In a lot of cases it's not even about placing well, it's about not getting laughed off the stage. Some are willing to push the envelope a little more than others but anybody who decides to do this should know up front that the price for looking so good is temporarily being un-healthy...it's all about risk vs. reward.

[dumbells101]

Very true...but pushing the envelope or licking it? I mean do people use drugs to push, or to take the easy way? I'm reading a lot of these posts from people who really should wait but appear to want the easy way. I've worked real hard and yes have juiced in the past, but never without a HUGE effort either way. I think it should be to drive yourself past your limits...not before you've reached them...whatever they may be.

[Pete235]

Originally posted by dumbells101
I mean do people use drugs to push, or to take the easy way? I'm reading a lot of these posts from people who really should wait but appear to want the easy way.

Again...good point and I agree to an extent that there are many people out there who view using gear as a shortcut. But this thread is about "competing and competitions" and IMO a serious competitive bodybuilder does not look at AAS use as a crutch but as a neccesary evil if they want to be competitive. Ben Johnson's coach, Charlie Francis, hit the nail on the head when he said "Ben could have lined his starting blocks up nextto everybody else or set them up 1 meter behind everybody else". I know you know this but when you're preparing for a show there are no shortcuts...period...gear use or not. The only thing AAS will do is help burn excess BF a little quicker, maintain the lean body mass during periods of severe nutritional deprivation and help you lose some excess sub Q water at show time (well that's actually diuretics). So I know your not suggesting that BB's who use sacrifice more than so called "Natural" bodybuilders. BTW...this is turning into a good thread.

P

[dumbells101]

To the guy (or gal) who has busted their hump for years, who uses gear for whatever goal I want to say that I in no way am judging anyone except those who use drugs as a shortcut and not as a means to obtain what may not be possible naturally. I know for certain that in today's bodybuilding arena they are inevitable if you want to be competitive and win.


On with the contests!

[silverfox]

I my mind, lee Haney's era was last of true bodybuilders. I have no problems with "doing what it takes" however, bloated guts and 50" waists have no place on stage. I blame the judges for pushing things too far. To me some of the "old timers" looked 10X better than some of the big bloated monsters out there now. What i think is funny is Joe Weider is rewarding the mass monsters, but at same time, wanting bbing to be IOC sport. C'on genitics has not improved that much in last 10 years. I would really like to see builds like Bob Pairs, Lee Haney, and a few others be rewarded. I think the use of GH and slin is OK, but not to the degree some have taken it. NO one can tell me they want to look like a Kovacs or Rhule, if they could pick how they would look?

[dumbells101]

EC - I totally agree with you!

[silverfox]

I saw Kovacs about 3 weeks ago at Canadians, it was said, huge man, but gut was un-real like nothing I have seen, if his chest is 70" his gut is 90", i do not understand how it can look into mirror and think I look good, better do some more GH/slin and whatever else he is on.

[Pete235]

I'm with EC on this one as I was sitting 2 rows in front of him (EC) at the show. Kovacs sat down 2 seats over in the row directly ion front of me. He, literally had to squeeze his bulk into the normal sized seat. He just sat there panting and sweating. I think he keeps himself outlandishly large just for the publicity, because he sure has hell is not placing in shows and in order to keep his noterity he needs something that nobody else has...horse like size. My friend said when he trained at a local gym he was eating as he entered and ordered a shake after being there for an hour (he told the owner he eats every hour). He ordered a double meso-tech shake that ended up being as thick as a Mc Donalds shake.

[silverfox]

I would not want to pick up his food bill, i know what i have to spend, so i can only imagine what he does. I believe only reason he completes is that it's part of his deal with Muscle tech, he has too, 1x every 2 years on something. I saw some pics of him on stage at NOC, no wonder he left, was not pretty. I will give him credit, he is one of the few bbers who makes a very good living, i have heard rumors his makes million in a year. But who knows.

[dumbells101]

The whole pro scene is going the wrong way. Have you seen the pics in MF of Lee Haney and then Ronnie! OH MY and to think I thought Lee big!

[Pete235]

Originally posted by dumbells101
The whole pro scene is going the wrong way. Have you seen the pics in MF of Lee Haney and then Ronnie! OH MY and to think I thought Lee big!

Frank Zane won the Olympia wieghing 203lbs. Arnold at 6'2" wieghed 235lbs. Lee Haney competed at 5'11" and 240lbs and was the biggest man on stage. Dorian @ 5'10" wieghed 265 and at last years Olympia Ronnie weighhed 270 @ 5'10"....and there 3-4 guys heavier than him. When will it end?

[dumbells101]

Originally posted by Pete235


Frank Zane won the Olympia wieghing 203lbs. Arnold at 6'2" wieghed 235lbs. Lee Haney competed at 5'11" and 240lbs and was the biggest man on stage. Dorian @ 5'10" wieghed 265 and at last years Olympia Ronnie weighhed 270 @ 5'10"....and there 3-4 guys heavier than him. When will it end?

It'll end when people stop paying to see it. Kind of like I see Womans bb. The fitness competitions are taking off while nobody wants to see females with bigger arms then Frank Zane had.

[berry]

i have competed and im getting ready for next season,its hard very hard,but i love to be in top shape its something u carnt buy to have to do it youreself,but be realistic can u do it?r u good at it?if you answer honestly you will not waste youre time,because at the end of the day the guys with the best genetics win,take this tip from me diet is the key to condition the rest of gear is only for those who carnt keep there diet up ,i mean t3 dnp etc,anobolics r a must but up to a limit if u do this there is no risk ...

[bigkev]

competed quite a bit in 97-98, with good results. got burned completely out though. everything in moderation bro.
genetics do play a role, but dedication and hard work go a very LONG ways. genetics are a hinderance to lazy people. commitement will get you anywhere you want to go.
if you want to do it bro, go for it, "genetics" is another way to say "i am to lazy to try".

[dumbells101]

That's a big AMEN Bigkev. You can't make excuses for a poor work ethic or inferior genetics. I too have seen guys win shows who you'd think years earlier would never have a chance. There is no imitation for dedication and hard work. No gear can give you that edge.

[silverfox]

When i think of lazy people with good genetics i think Flex Wheeler, I read something where is has some IGF-1 strain that they can't match and mutated Myosin gene or something. Basicly he is some type of genitic freak, yet he has been beat by a lot of guys, and if yu watch a video of him training compare to some of the other's you see why.

Not bashing the guy, just pointing something out.

[dumbells101]

EC that's interesting...I've seen quite a few pro's train and IMO most of them train with horrible form and with no intensity. Makes me wonder how they'd look without drugs, just training natural. Sure still awsome I'm sure but we would see a lot different competition. It would truly be the ones who worked the hardest with great genetics who would win it all.

[silverfox]

Living in hick town in Canada I have not seen many pro train. We do have one local pro, who completed in Master O 1X a few years ago. But at 5'3" hard for him to do much. He trains VERY hard but has really bad form. Just as a note, a big cycle for him was 3 cc week of Winny, 2 primo , 1 amp of test...

As far as pro's go, i have seen vidio's of Coleman, Keiven L, Dexter J, yates, they bust thier ass in gym, but your right a lot of other's don't. May be genitics is a bigger deal than we realize. I don't think any amount of drugs can make them look like that, just because of drugs.