Arimidex

[Mooseman33]

conteplating taking nolva or arimidex, a good bud tells me to go with arimidex as it will provide leaner gains, less water...
any suggestions or comments on either...

[BIGRTHABETTR]

during or after cycle. I like ti run l-dex during cycle and save Nolva for pct .

[Mooseman33]

lost you on some of that.. i want to run during cycle..

[mister.fantastic]

during or after cycle. I like ti run l-dex during cycle and save Nolva for pct .

lost you on some of that.. i want to run during cycle..

He's saying that he runs arimidex (l-dex) during his cycle and then runs nolvadex (tamoxifen) after for PCT.

[Outlaw**]

run them both during your cycle and after. arimidex at .25 ed and nolva at 10mgs with 200mgs B6 ed

[TURBOGREEK]

adex during cycle @.5ED worked fine for me and i'm very gyno prone. i only keep nolva on hand for the flair ups that i have to battle usually mid cycle.

[TURBOGREEK]

run them both during your cycle and after. arimidex at .25 ed and nolva at 10mgs with 200mgs B6 ed

why the B6? i only run B6 if running tren.

[mister.fantastic]

why the B6? i only run B6 if running tren.

maybe he's running tren. doubt it but maybe

[Rolsroyce]

i read that taking them both at the same time will cause them both to be less affective.Go one or the other. Arimidex is better and i have used both and for battling sides Arimidex wins hands down.

[chest6]

i read that taking them both at the same time will cause them both to be less affective.Go one or the other. Arimidex is better and i have used both and for battling sides Arimidex wins hands down.

I have read this too. Guess adex is the way to go then.

[LORDBLiTZ]

First off, what are you running?

[ivrig]

NEVER use ari and nolva at the same time!

[brutesinme]

Why would there be a problem running the two at the same time, they work via different mechanisms

[ivrig]

There is an extremly high % of the two substances neutralising each other!

[Dexta]

what? never heard that shit b4

[ivrig]

Well it is true.
I`ll see if I can find a study on it, i have it somewhere on my pc

[Outlaw**]

Bump...I wanna see this info.

[ivrig]

yeah, looking. i will post it as soon as i find it!

And what the hell does BUMP mean anyway??

[BigSwol]

From what i've read about the topic of a-dex and nolva being used simu, they negate each other, not completely but a fair amount. Now that being said aromasin and nolva don't negate each other. So that would be a possible combo.

I plan on running nolva during my next cycle at 20mg ed...unless flair ups.
Once I get to Pct I'll add nolva 20mg ed, clomid 100mg ed, and finally some aromasin at 12.5-25mg ed.

There are several threads on IFL about the topic, PM me if you need a link.

Later

BigSwol

[Outlaw**]

bump 4 more info.

[Ufa]

conteplating taking nolva or arimidex, a good bud tells me to go with arimidex as it will provide leaner gains, less water...
any suggestions or comments on either...

Human Grade Arimidex Rules. I would have blood test on estrogen to apply correct dosage. I take 1 mg per day. Love it. A diuretic will get rid of the water. If your blood pressure is high; drugs like Lotrel have them in it. I take lotrel for high blood pressure.

Just go with one first. Ask the Doctor. Human grade will reduce estrogen by
50% to 80% Depending on study. the 80% is in the Physicians Desk Reference.

[Outlaw**]

From what I understand arimidex destroys estrogen in the body and nolva stops estrogen from gettin into the body. Two different things, I dont know how they would negate each other. I'd like more info on this, since I'm going to be taking both of these together.

[SS1476]

yeah, looking. i will post it as soon as i find it!

And what the hell does BUMP mean anyway??

Please do..Im also
interested in reading this.

Bump also means TTT

[Swifto]

Nolva will decrease the blood plasma levels of Arimdex, when use together.

[Outlaw**]

so they are bad to take together?

[Outlaw**]

In cycles for the newbie, it is suggested to take them both together.

[Swifto]

Got ya!

Interactions of antioestrogens and aromatase inhibitors.

Schmid P, Possinger K

Department of Oncology and Hematology, Charite Campus Mitte, Humboldt University Berlin, Germany.

Aromatase inhibitors and antioestrogens have shown substantial activity in primary and advanced breast cancer. Since they exhibit different modes of action, attempts have been made to combine them or to use them sequentially in order to potentially increase their efficacy. In preclinical studies, combined, sequential or alternating treatments with aromatase inhibitors and antioestrogens have failed to provide higher antitumoural activity. There are relevant pharmacokinetic interactions resulting in decreased plasma concentrations of third generation aromatase inhibitors when combined with tamoxifen. Several randomised clinical trials comparing single agent and combined treatment with tamoxifen and aminoglutethimide failed to show any benefit for the combination. Early results of the adjuvant ATAC trial indicate that single agent anastrozole is superior to tamoxifen or the combination of both. Several trials are ongoing which might help to further define the role of sequential or combined treatment with aromatase inhibitors and antioestrogens. However, to date, looking at the current evidence, combined treatment with aromatase inhibitors and antioestrogens does not appear to provide additional benefit compared to single agent treatment.

[Moosepellet]

First time that I have every heard this. Ran them both on my last cycle, someone please bump for more info on this subject

[Outlaw**]

hmmmm....

[Swifto]

First time that I have every heard this. Ran them both on my last cycle, someone please bump for more info on this subject

Doesnt that study explain it...?

Just dont run them together. Run the AI and keep the Nolva on hand IMO.

If your very prone to gyno run Letro, which will reduce estrgen levels by 98%. You could add Nolvam but as above, it may affect plasma concentrations, but, it will cover all bases reducing the chances of gyno greatly.

[SS1476]

Thanks for the info Swifto

[brutesinme]

Swifto, you rule, thanks for the info...this changes things. I've looked a little into this now, and heres some info, curtesy (sp?) of Anthony Roberts from the mesomorphis website

think at this point most people are sold on the use of Nolvadex (Tamoxifen Citrate) instead of Clomid for PCT, since both compete estrogen at the receptor site, both increase serum test levels, and both drugs may also alter blood lipid profiles favorably (6). But since 20mgs of Tamoxifen is equal to 150mgs of clomid for purposes of testosterone elevation, FSH and LH, but Tamoxifen doesn’t decrease the LH response to LHRH (6) I think most people agree to Nolvadex’s superiority for PCT.

I’ve always been in favor of using Nolvadex during PCT, along with an AI, because reducing estrogen levels has been positively correlated with an increase in testosterone (7) so in my mind, it’s be beneficial to increase testosterone by as many mechanisms as possible while trying to recover your endogenous testosterone levels after a cycle. SO which AI do we use? Letro or A-dex? Well, why don’t we just keep using whichever one we used during the cycle, and add in some Nolvadex? Unfortunately, Nolvadex will significantly reduce the blood plasma levels of both Letrozole as well as Arimidex (8). So if we choose to use one of them with our Nolvadex on PCT, we’re throwing away a bit of money as the Nolvadex will be reducing their effectiveness.

This, of course, is where Aromasin comes in, at 20-25mgs/day.

Aromasin, at that dose, will raise your testosterone levels by about 60%, and also help out your free to bound testosterone ratio by lowering levels of Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG), by about 20% (12)…SHBG is that nasty enzyme that binds to testosterone and renders it useless for building muscle. But what about using it along with Nolvadex for PCT?

To understand why Aromasin may be useful in conjunction with Nolvadex while both Letro and A-dex suffer reduced effectiveness, we’ll need to first understand the differences between a Type-I and Type-II Aromatase Inhibitor. Type I inhibitors (like Aromasin) are actually steroidal compounds, while type II inhibitors (like Letro and A-dex) are non-steroidal drugs. Hence, androgenic side effects are very possible with Type-I AIs, and they should probably be avoided by women. Of course, there are some similarities between the two types of AIs…both type I & type II AIs mimic normal substrates (essentially androgens), allowing them to compete with the substrate for access to the binding site on the aromatase enzyme. After this binding, the next step is where things differ greatly for the two different types of AI’s. In the case of a type-I AI, the noncompetitive inhibitor will bind, and the enzyme initiates a sequence of hydroxylation; this hydroxylation produces an unbreakable covalent bond between the inhibitor and the enzyme protein. Now, enzyme activity is permanently blocked; even if all unattached inhibitor is removed. Aromatase enzyme activity can only be restored by new enzyme synthesis. Now, on the other hand, competitive inhibitors, called type II AI’s, reversibly bind to the active enzyme site, and one of two things can happen: 1.) either no enzyme activity is triggered or 2.) the enzyme is somehow triggered without effect. The type II inhibitor can now actually disassociate from the binding site, eventually allowing renewed competition between the inhibitor and the substrate for binding to the site. This means that the effectiveness of competitive aromatase inhibitors depends on the relative concentrations and affinities of both the inhibitor and the substrate, while this is not so for noncompetitive inhibitors. Aromasin is a type-I inhibitor, meaning that once it has done its job, and deactivated the aromatase enzyme, we don’t need it anymore. Letrozole and Arimidex actually need to remain present to continue their effects. This is possibly why Nolvadex does not alter the pharmacokinetics of Aromasin (11).

From what I understand arimidex destroys estrogen in the body and nolva stops estrogen from gettin into the body. Two different things, I dont know how they would negate each other. I'd like more info on this, since I'm going to be taking both of these together.

arimidex (AI's) don't destroy estrogen, they inhibit the conversion of test into estrogeg, Nolva (SERM) competes with estrogen for binding sites, therefore actually raises serum levels of estrogen (good for immune system) but lowers the effects of estrogen on body comp.

[Outlaw**]

Thanks, so its better to just run arimidex and keep the nolva on hand in case I see something I dont like.

[Hard Head]

Puhleeze, Swifto is right on here (as usual). Run the AI and keep the Nolva on hand. Use Nolva in PCT for sure.

[Swifto]

Thanks for the info Swifto

No problem, its what I'm here for.

Thanks, so its better to just run arimidex and keep the nolva on hand in case I see something I dont like.

This is what I'm doing now, yes.

[Outlaw**]

Cool..thanks swifto. Ill do the same. Does the arimidex keep the face swelling down?

[Swifto]

The key here is "decreased plasma concentrations of third generation aromatase inhibitors". These include Arimdex and Letro. I have never seen anything stating its not good to use Nolva in conjuction with other AI's. Such as Aromasin, Proviron.

[Outlaw**]

what are u running for pct swifto?

[Swifto]

Cool..thanks swifto. Ill do the same. Does the arimidex keep the face swelling down?

Arimidex competes with estrogen for the aromatase enzyme, reducing estrogen by upto 50%. It will then reduce effects of water retention.

[Outlaw**]

so for pct run just nolva at 20mg ed? I wanna stay away from clomid.