No muscle in 3 years of Natural lifting

[SkinnyFatGuy]

I'll try to make this as quick as possible, because it's a long story, with many variables, so it's going to be vague. Let's just assume I have an optimal training regime, and an awesome diet, to make answering my question much easier.

For the last 3 years, I have attempted to put on muscle mass, however I can only put on fat mass. Strength gains aren't easy, and are very slow if any. I overtrain very easily with even a medium volume or too much cardio. I am 5'10, 159 lbs, with a 10% bf, and 19 years old. I don't have a muscular build. I am the skinny fat guy. Here are some pictures from 3 years. First I got fat, but then had to cut because people made fun of me, and then had surgery, and had to take time off.... I think I look alright in the 2nd to last photo, however my strength wasn't any better here, and the only thing different thing I was doing was pushups and hindu squats every night (although my pushups never increased in amount), along with serious jump-rope and MMA training (i burnt out eventually and had to stop):

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attach...1&d=1141599807
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attach...1&d=1141599940
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attach...1&d=1141600036
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attach...1&d=1141600511
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attach...1&d=1141600532



I don't want to use roids, but I'm assuming something isn't going right. I had a hormone test 2 years back, and everything came out normal. What's the deal here? Endos think I'm nuts going to see them for this type of issue, and I feel a little crazy myself going there for it. However, although I train as hard as possible, I simply cannot add muscle mass to my frame.

What am I to assume by this? Is there something genetically not right. I don't want steroid-like gains. I just want to make gains.

Someone recommended a low dose anavar, or equipoise cycle to help me out. I'm pretty well versed on steroids (as I've considered it plenty in my circumstance), and I know these definitely aren't anabolics you'd use standalone. And who knows if taking steroids would even work for me? It might? Would I keep the gains with any cycle recommended? Is it worth it to satisfy my ego?

I hope somebody here can convince me NOT to use steroids, because I don't want to. However the effort I've put forth into trying to bulk up, without having anything to show, it extremely frustrating, and discouraging. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

[Hellmaskbanned]

I'll try to make this as quick as possible, because it's a long story, with many variables, so it's going to be vague. Let's just assume I have an optimal training regime, and an awesome diet, to make answering my question much easier.

For the last 3 years, I have attempted to put on muscle mass, however I can only put on fat mass. Strength gains aren't easy, and are very slow if any. I overtrain very easily with even a medium volume or too much cardio. I am 5'10, 159 lbs, with a 10% bf, and 19 years old. I don't have a muscular build. I am the skinny fat guy. Here are some pictures from 3 years. First I got fat, but then had to cut because people made fun of me, and then had surgery, and had to take time off.... I think I look alright in the 2nd to last photo, however my strength wasn't any better here, and the only thing different thing I was doing was pushups and hindu squats every night (although my pushups never increased in amount), along with serious jump-rope and MMA training (i burnt out eventually and had to stop):

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attach...1&d=1141599807
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attach...1&d=1141599940
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attach...1&d=1141600036
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attach...1&d=1141600511
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attach...1&d=1141600532



I don't want to use roids, but I'm assuming something isn't going right. I had a hormone test 2 years back, and everything came out normal. What's the deal here? Endos think I'm nuts going to see them for this type of issue, and I feel a little crazy myself going there for it. However, although I train as hard as possible, I simply cannot add muscle mass to my frame.

What am I to assume by this? Is there something genetically not right. I don't want steroid-like gains. I just want to make gains.

Someone recommended a low dose anavar, or equipoise cycle to help me out. I'm pretty well versed on steroids (as I've considered it plenty in my circumstance), and I know these definitely aren't anabolics you'd use standalone. And who knows if taking steroids would even work for me? It might? Would I keep the gains with any cycle recommended? Is it worth it to satisfy my ego?

I hope somebody here can convince me NOT to use steroids, because I don't want to. However the effort I've put forth into trying to bulk up, without having anything to show, it extremely frustrating, and discouraging. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Post your diet in the diet forum & your workout routine in the workout forum.
Your obviosly training and eating wrong to not gain in 3 years. If you take AAS you will lose the little weight you gain while on, because your unable to gain as a natural with your poor program you are doing.

[Pinnacle]

What's your problem?Really???You are 19 yrs old...do you expect to build a quality physique in a such a short time frame?Your hormones are just switch gears (so to speak) from building bone density ect,over to being able to build muscle....I understand all to well that society(nowadays) has put alot of pressure on young ppl to look great ie; TV,magazines ect...it's a fvkin shame young ppl can't feel comfortable in their own skin without corporations promoting TV adds with models ect telling young women and men this is the way you are suppose to look,or at least how we want you to look. Know wonder so many young ppl are on anti-depressants and others drugs for physiological issues.
Young ppl are taking steroids for all the wrong reasons.Not long ago it was unheard of for a 19 yr old to be taking steroids unless he/she was an athlete.Now every fvkin kid wants to take steroid in hopes of some magical transformation to make he/her feel comfortable in todays society....what the fvk is happening in this world?


~Pinnacle~

[Hellmaskbanned]

What's your problem?Really???You are 19 yrs old...do you expect to build a quality physique in a such a short time frame?Your hormones are just switch gears (so to speak) from building bone density ect,over to being able to build muscle....I understand all to well that society(nowadays) has put alot of pressure on young ppl to look great ie; TV,magazines ect...it's a fvkin shame young ppl can't feel comfortable in their own skin without corporations promoting TV adds with models ect telling young women and men this is the way you are suppose to look,or at least how we want you to look. Know wonder so many young ppl are on anti-depressants and others drugs for physiological issues.
Young ppl are taking steroids for all the wrong reasons.Not long ago it was unheard of for a 19 yr old to be taking steroids unless he/she was an athlete.Now every fvkin kid wants to take steroid in hopes of some magical transformation to make he/her feel comfortable in todays society....what the fvk is happening in this world?


~Pinnacle~

Preach it pinn.
So right, and society shouldn't make that "look" the norm for younger adults.

[SkinnyFatGuy]

What's your problem?Really???You are 19 yrs old...do you expect to build a quality physique in a such a short time frame?Your hormones are just switch gears (so to speak) from building bone density ect,over to being able to build muscle....I understand all to well that society(nowadays) has put alot of pressure on young ppl to look great ie; TV,magazines ect...it's a fvkin shame young ppl can't feel comfortable in their own skin without corporations promoting TV adds with models ect telling young women and men this is the way you are suppose to look,or at least how we want you to look. Know wonder so many young ppl are on anti-depressants and others drugs for physiological issues.
Young ppl are taking steroids for all the wrong reasons.Not long ago it was unheard of for a 19 yr old to be taking steroids unless he/she was an athlete.Now every fvkin kid wants to take steroid in hopes of some magical transformation to make he/her feel comfortable in todays society....what the fvk is happening in this world?


~Pinnacle~

You bring up a lot of good points. So are you saying that at this age, adding muscle is going to start becoming easier, providing I train and eat right?

and let me ask you. is strength, directly related to an increase im muscle? so if you arent lifting enough weight, then theres no chance in heck to get bigger?

ala me squatting 150 for 8 reps.....

[velvetlion]

Yes, at your age, you should be able to start putting on muscle quite a bit easier provided training and diet is right.

There is no reason to be on anabolics at your age.

You don't neccessarily have to lift a ton to put on muscle. But on the other hand, you have to remember that you do have to break down the muscle in order for it to grow.

Go to the diet forum and make sure that you are eating correctly. I would bet that you may have some flaws in there that you are unaware of.



And Pinn-

I am with you bro. Society does put a lot of pressure on people to look one way or another. And even though you get a bunch of college guys that are supposed to go out and drink every night of the week, they are also supposed to look good on the beach come spring break. Hence all of the f***ing "wanna look good for spring break" cycles.

[Geodogg]

your most likely not eating right. read the diet forum.

[helium3]

i think there is a diet issue also,but many people think there training is adequate when it isnt, just because they push alot of weight doesnt mean it will lead to muscle hypertophy and the same goes if you are struggling with low weights you need to find another effective training method.it took me a few years to find out the mistakes i was making and to find the right training method.post your routine.

[Swifto]

I think you've made some nice gains in the changing pictures. Its just not going to happen over night. A perfect diet, high in clean calories with a whey protein powder and good quality creatine.

[Oki-Des]

Hey Skinny Fat Guy, I used to have a similar build and also had alot of problems gaining weight no matter what I tried. I even turned to AAS but my diet was not in order and it ended up being a waste. I am now 36 and I have a better build than I ever had when I was younger. For some reason I am now able to put on muscle and lose fat much easier than when I was your age. Everyone is different, but I used to wrestle in high school but I always weighed much less than the smallest weight class. When I was 17 years old, I was 5'9" and weighed around 90 pounds! I ate everything and lifted, but I was skinny as a pencil. I am now 35 and am 5'11" and weight 202 pounds! Also this is with 17% body fat. I am starting cardio and hope to bring this down to about 10%, but just keep working on being healthy and the looks will catch up when your body is ready. Good Luck!

[Italian Stallion]

What's your problem?Really???You are 19 yrs old...do you expect to build a quality physique in a such a short time frame?Your hormones are just switch gears (so to speak) from building bone density ect,over to being able to build muscle....I understand all to well that society(nowadays) has put alot of pressure on young ppl to look great ie; TV,magazines ect...it's a fvkin shame young ppl can't feel comfortable in their own skin without corporations promoting TV adds with models ect telling young women and men this is the way you are suppose to look,or at least how we want you to look. Know wonder so many young ppl are on anti-depressants and others drugs for physiological issues.
Young ppl are taking steroids for all the wrong reasons.Not long ago it was unheard of for a 19 yr old to be taking steroids unless he/she was an athlete.Now every fvkin kid wants to take steroid in hopes of some magical transformation to make he/her feel comfortable in todays society....what the fvk is happening in this world?


~Pinnacle~

that's the truth

[goose]

America statically has the worst obeist rate in the world,yet the media and the Offspring of Hollywood culture presents a very different picture,it`s no surprise Cosmetic Surgery is huge in the States.

goose..

[marcus300]

Id stay away from AAS for the time being, id look at your diet if you would post what your normal diet is we could see were you are going wrong, once your diet is on track and your training program is up to it you will build muscle, i find it hard to believe you are doing everything right concerning the food what is required to build new muscle tissue.

At your age you should be buzzing with natural test anyway, good basic diet with a good mass training program and make sure you dont overtrain, food is the key to size....

[MAXIMA5]

I think you look fine in the last two pics. Obviously you cleaned up your diet during that period.
Amazing how much muscle you expose when you strip the fat away huh?

Eat right (all the time), Push yourself further on every workout, and be patient. Rome wasn't built in a day.

I've suggested this several times, and some may be sick of seeing it, but I think it's worth considering.
Throw in some Static Contraction Training with heavy weight until failure on your core lifts. If you want me to elaborate on this, PM me and I'll direct you to one of my threads with a program. Or search for "SCT" and you should find something.

[mesomorph]

I agree that 19 is too young, so I would keep at it for another 2 years natural. I have the same sort of build as you. I weightlifted for years steady & couldn't do 1 pullup, at 6-0 & 160 lbs.

Make sure to keep your protein intake around 175 - 200 grams, considering your body weight & the fact that you're natty, that should be about right. But to keep from putting on the fat, calorie intake around 2500 - 3000 a day.

I think in 2 - 3 years you will end up wanting to try gear. My advice is to start with low amounts, as the dude suggested, anavar maybe, worked well on me for a weak road. Point being, it it is wise to start out using small amounts until you can't make gains on them, then slowly increase. Short cycles like 6 weeks on & 6 weeks off work well for me. Point being, even though my test levels were normal & I was skinny as a rail, I responded very well to small amounts of gear. Not sure if all of us hard gainers turn out to be the same, but that is what worked for me.

But yeah, you got time, wait a couple years & keep tweeking your diet & routine. I used to overtrain easy, still do even when on, so my lifting volume is low, 6 - 8 sets per body part, and only one or two sets are to failure.

[Timm1704]

as far as your training routine goes, maybe try just a powerlifting routine for 8 weeks, with afew isolation exercises to boot. squats, deads, bench, and make an effort to try add a tiny amount of weight every week

[powerliftmike]

What's your problem?Really???You are 19 yrs old...do you expect to build a quality physique in a such a short time frame?Your hormones are just switch gears (so to speak) from building bone density ect,over to being able to build muscle....I understand all to well that society(nowadays) has put alot of pressure on young ppl to look great ie; TV,magazines ect...it's a fvkin shame young ppl can't feel comfortable in their own skin without corporations promoting TV adds with models ect telling young women and men this is the way you are suppose to look,or at least how we want you to look. Know wonder so many young ppl are on anti-depressants and others drugs for physiological issues.
Young ppl are taking steroids for all the wrong reasons.Not long ago it was unheard of for a 19 yr old to be taking steroids unless he/she was an athlete.Now every fvkin kid wants to take steroid in hopes of some magical transformation to make he/her feel comfortable in todays society....what the fvk is happening in this world?


~Pinnacle~

Well stated. Also, how in the hell are ppl making fun of you for being fat at 10% BF??? That is actually pretty lean. To be honest, I dont think AASs will help you much, although I know thats not what you want to hear.

[MAXIMA5]

as far as your training routine goes, maybe try just a powerlifting routine for 8 weeks, with afew isolation exercises to boot. squats, deads, bench, and make an effort to try add a tiny amount of weight every week

Exactly. If you're not failing on your last rep of your last set and you aren't a little sore after each workout, then you aren;t pushing yourself hard enough.

More importantly, muscle needs time to rebuild. How many days a week are you working out. There is such a thing as overtraining. Doing curls and bench every other day won't do anything for you except burn calories.

[Chookster]

cardio, diet, solid workout routine and you will start to see the results you want

[SkinnyFatGuy]

Here is my current training routine. Some may say my volume is too low, however anything higher results in burnout, and I'm unable to add strength.


Training on Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Saturdays and I'll be alternating between the following 2 workouts (im hitting the exercises more frequently so I can add strength more frequently, plus, this has some HST principles to it which might work for me).

Workout 1:
Weighted Chinups: 2x8 reps
Squats: 2x8 reps
Military Press: 2x8 reps
Dumbell Shrugs: 2x8reps
Ab work

Workout 2:
Incline Bench Press: 2x8 reps
Romanian Deadlift: 2x8 reps
Barbell Curl: 2x8reps
Seated Calf Rasies: 2x8reps

The diet I've been following now is somewhat of a weird diet recommended to me to optimize my insulin sensitivity (which is supposedly why I get fat so easily). However it's nearly impossible to make enough calories on something like this, as I've already been losing weight on it. Supposedly I shouldnt be mixing so much almond butter with everything. I cut out orange juice, pasta, milk, and all refined sugars. It's going to change today to add more carbs like brown rice and whole wheat pasta, or else im going to just lose more weight.


Breakfast:
1 scoop whey
1/2 cup oats
4 eggs, 2 yolks

Little Lunch:
1 cup cottage cheese (only 20 minutes before my next class)

Pre-Workout:
1 serving brown rice (3/4 cup)
1 can sardines
1 TBSP almond butter

Post Workout:
2 scoops whey
1/2 cup oats
1 banana

Post Workout Solid Meal:
whole wheat pasta
chicken
veges
almond butter, fish oil, or no fat

Before Bed:
chicken
cottage cheese
almond butter
or
whey shake with almond butter and cottage cheese, maybe tsp. fish oil
multi


I'm not looking for a magic pill. I just want to find something that works. Busting my ass for 3 years with leg pressing, 20 rep squatting, HIIT cardio, etc. etc., and having nothing to show, is quite depressing. I just want something that works at all. Not steroid like gains. I want like 10 lbs. of muscle mass. That's it. 170 lbs. at 5-10 at 10% bf. and id be content for a long damn time. I started bbing at 155 lbs. and i'm only 158 as of this morning.

Enough complaining on my part.

Your thoughts.....

Dan

[Jay_notellin]

My gf says you got a nice Bod!!!

Just eat your a$$ off. Eat everything in site. Meats, chicken ......beans and rice.......your GF.....just eat!!!

You are probably just a late bloomer, which is no big deal. Build good training and eating habits now. Lay a good foundation. Your peak time is coming very soon!!!

You def do not look like a skinny fat guy. You are going in the right direction. Keep going and do not be so obsessive. Just like an anorexic (knwo is spelled that wrong!!) looks in the mirror and sees a fat person, people who "body build" somtimes look in the mirror and see a skinny person/a fat person. Resist that.

Going on the Juice now would be a mistake, and probably would not prove beneficial in the long run. Juice or no juice, you will probably end up in the same place by 25.

[spyderUSMC]

I agree with Pinnacle, but I simpathize with you. I was 25 y.o.before I crossed 170 lbs, and I worked out all the time, but my diet was less than impressive so all that work didn't have a cahnce to pay off. I also began to read up ALOT and pay more attn to my routines. Stick with it...I'm 40, 210, 10%, and starting my 1st cycle.

[MAXIMA5]

I think part of your "problem" which doesn;t seem to be that big in the first place may be in the workout.

I don't see a problem with the workout frequency (3 days a week), especially since you're training naturally.

I do, however, think 2 sets of 8 is not nearly intense enough. Please don;t take offense to this, I just think you're selling yourself short.
I would do 4-6 sets of each lift minimum. Yeah, you'll be sore, especially the first week of doing 4-6 sets, but that's the point. No pain no gain. You're not going to add any muscle by going through the motions and doing the same routine every week. I do 2 sets just to warm up.

Think about it.

[Fjock]

come on now guys, 19 isnt to early for EVERYONE. I had 4 years lifting experience and 2 years of competitive bodybuilding experience before i started. Before i started cutting I got up to 240lbs at 18 years old with good bf%. This guy is obviously having some muscle/weight gaining issues. But some of us young folk know what we are doing... i researched on these types of boards years before i did my first cycle. Today Im a undefeated teen bodybuilder

Just askin that you guys dont throw all young people in one "you guys give steroids a bad name" catergory.

[MAXIMA5]

true, but lets get his workout in order first

[Hellmaskbanned]

come on now guys, 19 isnt to early for EVERYONE. I had 4 years lifting experience and 2 years of competitive bodybuilding experience before i started. Before i started cutting I got up to 240lbs at 18 years old with good bf%. This guy is obviously having some muscle/weight gaining issues. But some of us young folk know what we are doing... i researched on these types of boards years before i did my first cycle. Today Im a undefeated teen bodybuilder

Just askin that you guys dont throw all young people in one "you guys give steroids a bad name" catergory.

Look at the AAS young bucks thread or whatever it's called. Thats the point I was trying to make.

skinnyfat, your workout routine is not very good 2 sets of 8 for squats? come on now. Make it 8 x 8 then you shall growith.

[MAXIMA5]

Here is my current training routine. Some may say my volume is too low, however anything higher results in burnout, and I'm unable to add strength.


Training on Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Saturdays and I'll be alternating between the following 2 workouts (im hitting the exercises more frequently so I can add strength more frequently, plus, this has some HST principles to it which might work for me).

Workout 1:
Weighted Chinups: 2x8 reps
Squats: 2x8 reps
Military Press: 2x8 reps
Dumbell Shrugs: 2x8reps
Ab work

Workout 2:
Incline Bench Press: 2x8 reps
Romanian Deadlift: 2x8 reps
Barbell Curl: 2x8reps
Seated Calf Rasies: 2x8reps



Your thoughts.....

Dan

You need to seriously revisit your workout. I could probably do both workouts in one day in an hour's time.
Where's the flat bench? It doesnt appear you're working your back at all.

Find a balanced workout program, and raise the intensity. By this, I mean more sets with more weight.

PROGRESSIVE OVERLOAD + RECOVERY + DIET = PROGRESSIVE MUSCLE

I would grade your routine as follows

Diet: A
Recovery Time between workouts: A
Workout Intensity: D-

Let's focus on creating a transition workout leading to a more intense approach. Add more sets to everything you're doing and add more lifts. Add a 3rd workout and rotate all 3 if you have to.

[SkinnyFatGuy]

I guess you guys aren't very familiar with routines for the hard-gainer. The whole point of me keeping my volume low is because my body, and my CNS can't handle the types of volume you guys can. I've tried heavy volume in the past. I simply burn out, and make no progress. You see those early pictures?That's with heavy volume. The most recent pictures, where I look half-way decent is with a lower volume.

I'm almost certain my problem is that I'm incredibly weak, and hence I'm not too big. Which is why I'm sticking a lower volume, so I can add strength more quickly and easily. If I get to a point where I'm squatting 300 lbs., for 2 sets of 8 reps, and I'm not noticeably bigger, then your alternative ideas may have more merit. I really think this is key. I've seen some growth in most of the body areas where the weight is increased substantially. My problem is that adding strength is such a difficult task (and hence my lower volume now, and greater frequency).

That's why I said in the beggining I was going to keep things vague. No one would believe that I've tried all the "recommended" routines. I'm tried the insane amounts of calories as well.

I think more than anything I just need some patience. If I can chill for a couple of months on this routine, I think I'll be satisfied.

Thanks for the input. Keep it coming if you choose.

[MAXIMA5]

[QUOTE=SkinnyFatGuy]I guess you guys aren't very familiar with routines for the hard-gainer. The whole point of me keeping my volume low is
I'm almost certain my problem is that I'm incredibly weak, and hence I'm not too big. Which is why I'm sticking a lower volume, so I can add strength more quickly and easily.QUOTE]

What did you hope to accomplish by posting this thread? Do you just want someone to tell you you should juice?

[MAXIMA5]

I'm sure you've tried all the recommended routines, but did you try them for more than a month?

[dabigcheese]

I guess you guys aren't very familiar with routines for the hard-gainer. The whole point of me keeping my volume low is because my body, and my CNS can't handle the types of volume you guys can. I've tried heavy volume in the past. I simply burn out, and make no progress. You see those early pictures?That's with heavy volume. The most recent pictures, where I look half-way decent is with a lower volume.

I'm almost certain my problem is that I'm incredibly weak, and hence I'm not too big. Which is why I'm sticking a lower volume, so I can add strength more quickly and easily. If I get to a point where I'm squatting 300 lbs., for 2 sets of 8 reps, and I'm not noticeably bigger, then your alternative ideas may have more merit. I really think this is key. I've seen some growth in most of the body areas where the weight is increased substantially. My problem is that adding strength is such a difficult task (and hence my lower volume now, and greater frequency).

That's why I said in the beggining I was going to keep things vague. No one would believe that I've tried all the "recommended" routines. I'm tried the insane amounts of calories as well.

I think more than anything I just need some patience. If I can chill for a couple of months on this routine, I think I'll be satisfied.

Thanks for the input. Keep it coming if you choose.

You've gotta have pateince.

When I was 18 I weighed 98 Lbs (I am 5'11"). I now weigh 200 Lbs. Only 20 lbs of that gain is from Juice.

You've got to be ruthlessly consistent with your diet and eat phenomenal amounts of Protein and Carbs (and Fat) every day to keep growing - much more than other guys who are mesomorphs. There is no reason why you shouldn't be able to get to 200 Lbs without gear. But it will take time and pateince.

Why don't you post your diet here. The important thing is also consistency. No good following a diet for a couple of weeks and then slacking off.

[mesomorph]

You are going to have to go through all these posts carefully and evaluate them. Hardgainers are not like most of the mainstream here that put on muscle pretty easily. If you are able to do pullups with weight, that is awesome, as I said I couldn't do 1 with no weight, even after lifting a few years, so you are at least very strong for your size.

Anyhow a lot of dudes are blessed to be able to grow easily, and they can typically grow the most on progams like gvt, 10 x 10.... I have experimented with the volume thing and I know I grow the most on low volume, more and I overtrain & loose strength. I would play around with varying that though to see where your limit is and how to maximize your gains.

I couldn't believe how awesome gear was when I tried it, un-freaking-believable. But I would wait a couple years and try to keep tweeking your routine & diet to see what works the best for you. When you try gear, that won't change too much, what works best for me off gear, also still works best on gear.

[MAXIMA5]

Good advice, meso and cheese.
His diet is excellent, which leads me to believe that accounts for the drastic change in physique in photos 3 and 4 from 1 and 2, NOT the 2 sets of 8 workout.

[Hellmaskbanned]

I guess you guys aren't very familiar with routines for the hard-gainer. The whole point of me keeping my volume low is because my body, and my CNS can't handle the types of volume you guys can. I've tried heavy volume in the past. I simply burn out, and make no progress. You see those early pictures?That's with heavy volume. The most recent pictures, where I look half-way decent is with a lower volume.

I'm almost certain my problem is that I'm incredibly weak, and hence I'm not too big. Which is why I'm sticking a lower volume, so I can add strength more quickly and easily. If I get to a point where I'm squatting 300 lbs., for 2 sets of 8 reps, and I'm not noticeably bigger, then your alternative ideas may have more merit. I really think this is key. I've seen some growth in most of the body areas where the weight is increased substantially. My problem is that adding strength is such a difficult task (and hence my lower volume now, and greater frequency).

That's why I said in the beggining I was going to keep things vague. No one would believe that I've tried all the "recommended" routines. I'm tried the insane amounts of calories as well.

I think more than anything I just need some patience. If I can chill for a couple of months on this routine, I think I'll be satisfied.

Thanks for the input. Keep it coming if you choose.

Who isn't a hard gainer? Muscle is hard to put on for everybody! Your not the only one. AND doing less sets isn't the answer. Hell even NOT "hard gainers" wouldn't be able to grow with the routine your doing let alone a "hard gainer" like yourself. I would get smaller doing your easy wourkout routine for only 3 days a week.

[SkinnyFatGuy]

I'm sure you've tried all the recommended routines, but did you try them for more than a month?

I do need consistency. I think more than anything thats my issue. But I always seem to get knocked off of the consistency ladder for one reason or another, and end up back at square one. Usually it's do to over-training, frustration, surgery, or getting fat from eating too much (like in the early pics).


What I hoped to accomplish by posting here, is to try to figure out what I'm not doing right, and if I WAS doing everything as right as could be (as I imagined), then if gear could assist me in making some gains, due to some genetic fault which would make MUSCULUR gains impossible (as they've seemed).

In terms of your comment about the difference between the top and bottom pics. The difference is about a year spending cutting with a load of cardio as well. See I bulked first, just got fat...cut (because I was just a fat guy now) .and then attempted slowly bulking again, but had surgery...lost all the progress (I was up to about 165 with creatine).

It just seems I can't make any progress past a certain point. Due to some adversity for one reason or another, I just keep getting pushed off. It's extremely frustrating, and depressing, for all the hard work put into it.

And I have to be SCRUPULOUS with my diet, or else I start piling on the fat like the michellen man.

Essentially, in a nutshell, that's really the main issue here. Why is it I pile on the fat when I bulk, even though Im eating clean as can be?


Dan

[MAXIMA5]

hmmmm?
You already know what I think the main problem is, and I think that attributes to your self-fulfilling prophecy of failure.

If you don't use a progressive overload mentality in your workouts, you wont make muscle gains.

If you don;t make muscle gains, you get frustrated.

If you get frustrated, you will quit.

I'm not saying you need to jump into an advanced workout routine. Just bare with me here;

Muscles can do 3 things, get smaller, stay the same size, or get bigger.

The only way the later will occur is by lifting more weight, tearing down the muscle, and rebuilding it bigger. If you're doing the same workout with the same weight, you are just burning calories and not building muscle.

[muscle_20]

consitancy is the key mate!you have to train/eat/sleep perfectly for years on end before you develop a body that stands out from the crowd(if it was easier than this every one would look great!)i am surprised you havent gained in the last 3 years because between ages 16-19 i gained 20kg of muscle(naturally)but i have allways been 100%dedicated and my training/diet comes before every thing(girls,partys ext).
you need to follow one method of training for many months at a time and dont expect instant results.man when you gain muscle naturally you need to gain some fat when you gain muscle its just part of the deal!so what if you look like the michelan man for half a year if you can then diet down and have a totally new body!

[dabigcheese]

Here is my current training routine. Some may say my volume is too low, however anything higher results in burnout, and I'm unable to add strength.


Training on Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Saturdays and I'll be alternating between the following 2 workouts (im hitting the exercises more frequently so I can add strength more frequently, plus, this has some HST principles to it which might work for me).

Workout 1:
Weighted Chinups: 2x8 reps
Squats: 2x8 reps
Military Press: 2x8 reps
Dumbell Shrugs: 2x8reps
Ab work

Workout 2:
Incline Bench Press: 2x8 reps
Romanian Deadlift: 2x8 reps
Barbell Curl: 2x8reps
Seated Calf Rasies: 2x8reps

The diet I've been following now is somewhat of a weird diet recommended to me to optimize my insulin sensitivity (which is supposedly why I get fat so easily). However it's nearly impossible to make enough calories on something like this, as I've already been losing weight on it. Supposedly I shouldnt be mixing so much almond butter with everything. I cut out orange juice, pasta, milk, and all refined sugars. It's going to change today to add more carbs like brown rice and whole wheat pasta, or else im going to just lose more weight.


Breakfast:
1 scoop whey
1/2 cup oats
4 eggs, 2 yolks

Little Lunch:
1 cup cottage cheese (only 20 minutes before my next class)

Pre-Workout:
1 serving brown rice (3/4 cup)
1 can sardines
1 TBSP almond butter

Post Workout:
2 scoops whey
1/2 cup oats
1 banana

Post Workout Solid Meal:
whole wheat pasta
chicken
veges
almond butter, fish oil, or no fat

Before Bed:
chicken
cottage cheese
almond butter
or
whey shake with almond butter and cottage cheese, maybe tsp. fish oil
multi


I'm not looking for a magic pill. I just want to find something that works. Busting my ass for 3 years with leg pressing, 20 rep squatting, HIIT cardio, etc. etc., and having nothing to show, is quite depressing. I just want something that works at all. Not steroid like gains. I want like 10 lbs. of muscle mass. That's it. 170 lbs. at 5-10 at 10% bf. and id be content for a long damn time. I started bbing at 155 lbs. and i'm only 158 as of this morning.

Enough complaining on my part.

Your thoughts.....

Dan

Dan,

I gained 15 Lbs from Creatine alone. This one's easy. Give creatine a try. You should be able to add 10-15 lbs of muscle easily with creatine alone.

[Hellmaskbanned]

Dan,

I gained 15 Lbs from Creatine alone. This one's easy. Give creatine a try. You should be able to add 10-15 lbs of muscle easily with creatine alone.

GASP!


15lbs huh? Hope you don't mean muscle, all water maybe.

[MAXIMA5]

I can;t understand why he cringes at the suggestion of lifting heavier, but complains about not being able to add muscle. Adding muscle is hard for everyone, and gaining fat is an issue for everyone also. I'm not buying the "hard-gainer" excuse anymore. If you want to get big, lift big weights. PERIOD.
Also, judging by the pics, you don;t appear to be a true ectomorph either.
I'm not going to quote Arnold here, but maybe "discipline" is also an issue.

Your diet is great, but my grandma walks around the gym and does 2 sets of 8 on the nautilus machines.