Quit nolva and use some letro?

**TinTin78** · 03-12-2006, 07:04 AM

I posted a thread before about having gyno without feeling any pain or any puffyness really. I only have these tissue like stuff there if I press real hard, and still no pain. I feel that stuff only in the right breast and it is sooo tiny it's like a pins head if anything. I don't know shit about how gyno feels, looks, I am kinda confused because I have no itching or anything. Should I drop the nolva wich I am taking 20mg ed to letro or use both? I have ARR's letro on a pumpbottle, how much is one pump then?

**][-][ ][-][ ][-][** · 03-12-2006, 08:10 AM

If there is no lump developing or pains in the nips then i wont worry about it & dont let it get into your head just forget about it & to make sure everything is fine drop the nolva & use the letro 0.25mg ed but remember dont go over 5mg because it can kill your sex drive & it can reduce 98% of the estrogen in your body with even low doses which is not good at all.Try the letro & see if anything changes.

Good luck

][-][ ][-][ ][-][

**TinTin78** · 03-12-2006, 09:03 AM

I pressed the nip kinda hard before I took a shower just now and there came a little liquid. Is that normal or is that related, we talk not even a drop, less. By the way, is the lump being created far into the chest under the fat or is it near the nipple itself? Because I feel tissue closer to my muscle and I can't remember if I had it before the cycle or not.

**dsa8864667** · 03-12-2006, 09:59 AM

whats your cycle look like.
1pump= .25mg

**TinTin78** · 03-12-2006, 10:42 AM

My cycle consist of 500mg test cyp, and 400mg deca ew, I also have been using 20mg nolva ed since start and 200-300mg vitamin B6.

**TinTin78** · 03-12-2006, 10:43 AM

I can't see more puffyness then when I started, and I really don't have any pain. I mean anyone would feel some pain if you press your nip hard and long enough.

**ODC0717** · 03-12-2006, 10:54 AM

Aromasin is another option also. 25mg ed and I don't think it will kill your libido like letro does.

**TinTin78** · 03-13-2006, 04:46 AM

Well, I took 10mg before bedtime of nolva as usual and I also took one pump of letro. Would this mess up my gains, because if I can't gain muscle when taking letro then I just might as well quit the cycle.

I am in my 10th week tomorrow, I still have no itching, but I have a tiny tiny lump behind the nip and it is not so sore, but just a little bruise kinda feeling if I press hard. It might just be me pressing there all the time. I don't have anything at all on the left side so I guess there is something going on in the right. It annoys me that I did not feel anything, no itchying, pain or puffyness.

Will I never get rid of that lump now? And how much letro should I take to get rid of it and still make gains?

**marcus300** · 03-13-2006, 04:53 AM

If you have concerns that you may be getting gyno id up the nolva dose to 40mg or even higher until signs go away.

**TinTin78** · 03-13-2006, 05:02 AM

ok, just up the nolva and skip the letro for now?

**marcus300** · 03-13-2006, 05:05 AM

Originally Posted by TinTin78

ok, just up the nolva and skip the letro for now?

I would...if that doesnt solve the problem then start to try other things

**DavidLee14** · 03-13-2006, 05:21 AM

Originally Posted by TinTin78

I pressed the nip kinda hard before I took a shower just now and there came a little liquid. Is that normal or is that related, we talk not even a drop, less. By the way, is the lump being created far into the chest under the fat or is it near the nipple itself? Because I feel tissue closer to my muscle and I can't remember if I had it before the cycle or not.

Search For progestin inhibitors threads . Sounds like your getting Deca side effects. Nolva nor Letro will help you because they only block and inhibit estrogen. Your having progestin sides.

**TinTin78** · 03-13-2006, 05:27 AM

Damn, what the hell should I get then, it seems like winnys are the only thing and I just hate that prep. I have proviron , could that help? Otherwise, does not letro help with both types of gyno?

**DavidLee14** · 03-13-2006, 05:41 AM

Originally Posted by TinTin78

Damn, what the hell should I get then, it seems like winnys are the only thing and I just hate that prep. I have proviron, could that help? Otherwise, does not letro help with both types of gyno?

Progesterone Control
Progesterone : Its not so much progesterone that we watch, which is actually a healthy hormone, but progestins which may act upon its receptors. Progestins, like Tren or Deca , may act on its receptor or lower progesterone in the blood. Gyno and lactating are more common side effects. Some people use progesterone receptor blockers to combat this, or a prolactin production inhibitor.

Lilopristone, Onapristone: These are progesterone blockers also, said to be safer and possibly more effective than RU-486 when it comes to progesterone blocking. They were developed after RU-486 in an attempt to make more effective, less harsh drugs to block progesterone.

Dostinex (Cabergoline), Bromo (Bromocriptine), B-6 : These are used for Deca/Tren gyno sides. This type of gyno is related to progesterone and its receptors. Tren/Deca may act on the progesterone receptor, as they are progestins, and may increase prolactin in the blood (causing lactating). These drugs stop production of prolactin at the pituitary gland. Controlling estrogen levels with an AI also helps here, as progestins themsleves haven't been proven to cause gyno.

RU-486 (Mifepristone - abortion pill) : This drug has the ability to block estrogen, progesterone AND cortisol. It may or may not be very well tolerated, but I would like to find out more about it, as it is used in the bodybuilding world. In PCT it is used to block cortisol and progesterone. A powerful drug that may turn out to be a good choice, but i need more evidence and feedback from experience useing RU-486. Check out this thread i have going if you would like to learn more about it :
RU-486 - Mifepristone (abortion pill)

**TinTin78** · 03-13-2006, 06:19 AM

Thank's alot for that info, are those hard to get bromo or dostinex? or maybe those other, lilopristone, Onapristone?

**DavidLee14** · 03-13-2006, 07:14 AM

Originally Posted by TinTin78

Thank's alot for that info, are those hard to get bromo or dostinex? or maybe those other, lilopristone, Onapristone?

Just research around and you will find them. Bromo will be the easier to locate since it goes hand in hand with Deca Like Nolva to Test. Your body isn't nothing to be playing around with. AAS are not to be taken lightly. They are for real and can really wreak havoc on your body. Good luck on the remainder of your cycle.

**TinTin78** · 03-13-2006, 09:45 AM

Yes I know it does, that's why I got everything I thought. I heard letro fixed deca gyno to when I looked around first. So the deca gyno is still the lump thing but you can't really feel it coming? Like I said there is a tiny ball but it does not hurt at all. I will keep doing the 40mg nolva and see what happens, and look around for bromo in the meantime.

**TinTin78** · 03-13-2006, 03:42 PM

Ok, I have taken .50mg letro today and 40mg's nolva, all I can do is wait now. How long time does it take for the lump to go back if it's not some swollen breast tissue or something? Should I just take 40mg nolva tomorrow again and skip letro, I am confused about dosing and combination when combating gyno?

**C_Bino** · 03-13-2006, 03:58 PM

Originally Posted by TinTin78

Ok, I have taken .50mg letro today and 40mg's nolva, all I can do is wait now. How long time does it take for the lump to go back if it's not some swollen breast tissue or something? Should I just take 40mg nolva tomorrow again and skip letro, I am confused about dosing and combination when combating gyno?

If you are certain you are developing/have developed gyno then you need to run Letro. Nolva from my experience will not reverse gyno, just prevent it. You need to pyramid the letro up to 2.5mg ed and run it like that unil the lump subsides. During this time there is no need to run nolva, nolva is a SERM and Letro is an AI. This means nolva helps to block the receptor sites from estrogen while the letro will destroy it, so the nolva will not be doing anything at all. After the gyno goes away you need to keep the dose up for another few days to make sure it is cleared out, then taper down again to .25 or .5mg ed. Run this for the remainder of your cycle to make sure there is no reoccurence. As for lactating letro will not help it, thats what the B6 was for.

-Bino

**TinTin78** · 03-13-2006, 05:13 PM

Well, I have used B6, the small lump is getting on my damn nerves now. Is it common to only feel a lump in one nip?

How exactly should I pyramid it, .50, 1mg, 2mg or just boost along, that bottle will be empty in a few days at 2.5mg ed. I just want to stop it fast so it does not stay for good.

Thank's for all help you can give

**C_Bino** · 03-13-2006, 05:27 PM

Originally Posted by TinTin78

Well, I have used B6, the small lump is getting on my damn nerves now. Is it common to only feel a lump in one nip?

How exactly should I pyramid it, .50, 1mg, 2mg or just boost along, that bottle will be empty in a few days at 2.5mg ed. I just want to stop it fast so it does not stay for good.

Thank's for all help you can give

Yes it is common to get a lump only behind one nipple. In fact I have experienced the same thing, dont worry.

Pyramiding can be done like this.

Day 1: Nolva 20mg**, Letro .25mg
Day 2: Letro .5mg
Day 3: 1mg
Day 4: 1.5mg
Day 5: 2mg
Day 6: 2.5mg (Continue this dose until you notice cessation of the lump/tenderness...usually 1 week)
Continue to run it at 2.5mg ED for another 4-7 days after the lump has left just to be certain it is gone. Then taper down in the same fashion as you went up and once you get down to .25mg or .5mg continue to run that for the remainder of the cycle until PCT.

**I suggest running nolva at 20mg on the first day (this dose is an arbitrary number and I would suggest running the nolva at the same dosage you have been on the first day just so you can be sure the letro is in your system before you discontinue nolva). So if you are currently running nolva at 10mg ED than stay at that for the first day of Letro...you catch my drift.

-Bino

**TinTin78** · 03-13-2006, 05:31 PM

Sure do, I see that I have to order one more bottle. Is there any point in continue the cycle when you block all estrogen, can you build muscles at all like that?

I did 20mg nolva yesterday as usual and I took .25mg letro, and today I have taken 30mg nolva and .50mg letro I will drop the nolva tomorrow then and increase the letro.

I just heard so many say gyno hurts like a bitch, I can't feel that, well I have some soreness but who wouldn't after touching and feeling the nipple 200 times an hour.

**C_Bino** · 03-13-2006, 05:36 PM

Originally Posted by TinTin78

Sure do, I see that I have to order one more bottle. Is there any point in continue the cycle when you block all estrogen, can you build muscles at all like that?

I did 20mg nolva yesterday as usual and I took .25mg letro, and today I have taken 30mg nolva and .50mg letro I will drop the nolva tomorrow then and increase the letro.

I just heard so many say gyno hurts like a bitch, I can't feel that, well I have some soreness but who wouldn't after touching and feeling the nipple 200 times an hour.

You can definitely continue the cycle, some say estrogen will help with gains, and I do not debate that, however I noticed no real difference in gains/strength while running letro and will continue to do it each cycle. If I have to sacrifice a few pounds to stay gyno free than I will do it FOR SURE.

And yes gyno is tender to the touch, I wouldnt say it hurts like a bitch tho LMAO. Prolly just depends on the person. For me it was that tender type feeling but not a brutal pain. Good luck with it.

-Bino

**tripmachine** · 03-13-2006, 05:46 PM

Very good information C_Bino, Just wanted to let you know i've been following your posts on Letro and find them to be useful for me as well seeing how I have some lumps behind my nipples as well and they are pretty tender.... I also have funny shaped pecs due to too much estrogen I am guessing? When I flex my pecks don't get hard close to the nipples..... it seems to be like a clump of fat there... i'm guessing that is the gyno also? can't wait for all of that to go away.... i'm just on my 1mg of letro building it up to 2.5mg of it.... Thanks a bunch.

-j0sh

**C_Bino** · 03-13-2006, 07:50 PM

Originally Posted by tripmachine

Very good information C_Bino, Just wanted to let you know i've been following your posts on Letro and find them to be useful for me as well seeing how I have some lumps behind my nipples as well and they are pretty tender.... I also have funny shaped pecs due to too much estrogen I am guessing? When I flex my pecks don't get hard close to the nipples..... it seems to be like a clump of fat there... i'm guessing that is the gyno also? can't wait for all of that to go away.... i'm just on my 1mg of letro building it up to 2.5mg of it.... Thanks a bunch.

-j0sh

PM sent.

-Bino