I am on day 21 of pct with nolva and clomid. At around day 10-12 my b*lls were almost back to normal. Now they are almost not there what would cause this? I thought once they were back they would stay normal size and not go back down?
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I am on day 21 of pct with nolva and clomid. At around day 10-12 my b*lls were almost back to normal. Now they are almost not there what would cause this? I thought once they were back they would stay normal size and not go back down?
Its the low test levels that cause atrophy in the balls but if you want you can drop the clomid & get HCG & use it for 2wks 500i.u twice a week with nolva it should help then after you finish HCG get back on the clomid & stop the HCG.
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What was your cycle?
goose...
wks 1-15 1000mg's enanthate, wks1-10 600mg's deca, and wks 1-4 50 mg's dbol ed.
Yes, that must be it Inventor.
Stumpy, what was your cycle dose+duration? EDIT
Yes, I'd deff. get some HCG and run it for 2-3wks at 500-1000IU's twice/wk with the nolva and then continue with clomid.
Anytime a cycle runs longer than 12wks HCG is a must for me. Everyone is different, some need it more than others.
Add Tongkat ali,it has been proven to boost your total testosterone levels to about double if you stay on it long enough, but it also lowers your SHBG's so you get about a 440% increase in free testosterone.
goose..
Go keep your sister warm dude.Quote:
Originally Posted by inventerofroids
off topicQuote:
Originally Posted by inventerofroids
ink hcg will be the solution try 2 get some of it
If you use telsac as your anti E this type of thing does not happen.
goose..
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Originally Posted by goose4
Teslac is great but its not for everyone its so expensive for an Anti-E.
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Originally Posted by ][-][ ][-][ ][-][
The injection form is much cheaper,just like Andriol is cheap in your country,you can find it at a decent price like india...
goose...
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Originally Posted by goose4
Really?? i never knew that Teslac even exist in Egypt i'll look for it tomorrow.
Thanks goose :D
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Guys the HCG should of been run during the cycle, you done want something that is going to mimic LH, you want something that is going to simulate your LH. The athorpy comes because they are getting a signal that your have to much test in your system or they desensitized to LH, so they're not being stimulated to produce test. What could of made his testes desensitized to LH? Estrogen plays a part in the desensitizing of the testes, at a 1g dose of test for 16 weeks, he could be experiencing an estrogen rebound. Which is my guess is what is happening here.
Here's something that I still don't get, why we tell people to run PCT for 3-4 weeks and that's it. I believe PCT should be run until your sex drive is back into full swing. That's a sign that your natural test is back up to normal levels and if that take 8 weeks, do it, but remember those 8 weeks do not count as time off.
The whole reason for using HCG during the cycle is to keep the boys alive, giving you one less thing to recover from. Case in point, here it is 3 weeks on PCT and he's experiencing athorpy of the testes. At 1g of test and 600mg of deca, just waiting to standard 2 weeks for the test e to clear, isn't long enough. If in fact he is having an estrogen rebound, this could be what's causing the testes to athorpy.
My suggestion is to stay on the nolva/clomid for as long as it takes to get your sex drive back into full swing. Next time you run a cycle over 10 weeks or have a 19-nor steroid in it, use HCG at 300-500iu every 3-5 days. Here's what I'd do if I ran a cycle like that, once I stopped the high dose of gear. I'd use prop or var for 4-5 weeks after the last dose of the long estered gear. Run the HCG up until about 1 or 2 week before PCT, then start PCT and run it until your sex drive is back.
JohnnyB
Great advice JB but i always knew that when the problems is in the testicles then the HCG is the way to go whether its atrophy or pains in the balls.
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Originally Posted by ][-][ ][-][ ][-][
I meant Andriol in your country, Teslac is cheap in india....They may have in in your country,I know proviron is very cheap in Egypt.
goose..
solid advice jb & i agree that we should run pct untill everything is back again& not to limit it by few weeks
They stoped the production of Proviron in summer 2004 its a shame i got the last box in the pharmacy at that time.Quote:
Originally Posted by goose4
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no more proviron in egypt it has been suspenden since 003Quote:
Originally Posted by goose4
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Originally Posted by ][-][ ][-][ ][-][
Very strange,I get my Proviron from Saudi Arabia,for 25 riyals,about the same as your money.
goose...
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Originally Posted by goose4
Did you get Egyptian made Proviron White & Blue box ?? because maybe they import Proviron from other countries in sudie arabia.
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Just white no blue,not sure where it is from,but you can still get it in Saudi....
goose...
Its not Egyptian made for sure maybe its imported.
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That why I believe HCG shouldn't be used, it's in the testes and you're trying to get them back on line so to speak. HCG mimics LH, you want the testes to start stimulating LH to signal the HPTA to produce testosterone. Grant it HCG will stimulate testosterone, by mimicking LH, but you haven't got the testes to stimulate the production of LH for your natural testosterone be get back to their normal levels.Quote:
Originally Posted by ][-][ ][-][ ][-][
That's why I believe HCG is to late now, it should of been run during the cycle. At this point in the game, you want your own LH stimulating testosterone, not a drug that's going to mimic LH, which in turn, tells your body that it doesn't need to produce LH because it already has some. You see my point?
The whole reason behind athorpy, is the body telling itself that it doesn't need LH, because it has way more then enough testosterone already. That's why HCG keeps the boys alive, to some degree by passing the negative feedback loop. Because the body see LH in the body, the boys stay alive because they think everything is normal. The feedback is there, but the HCG mimicking LH, isn't letting the boys know it's there.
JohnnyB
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Originally Posted by JohnnyB
Yes i got your point JB its great to learn from someone experinced like you.
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Good thread.
Subscribing.
Gold
I have heard from a guy who holds seminars on AAS, that doctors have told him that PCT only sets the problem aside for a while, and the prod will drop again, and that not doing PCT at all is actually better, just let the body start to work on its own as soon as possible.
Now this is from docs who don not have a degree in AAS, but regular doctors with eyes focused on your own test levels. Can`t give any more on this sadly, just something he said..
Would be great if anyone took test on the difference with and without PCT..
Excellent PostQuote:
Originally Posted by ivrig