The Prime explained before cycling..

**marcus300** · 10-18-2006, 01:48 AM

Originally Posted by doctadank

marcus where can i read up more on priming? I searched google and found nothing! thanks

This thread is good reading to understand the prime, there are many studies on carb cycling but us Bodybuilders have to adjust the sytem to suit each others bodys

**doctadank** · 10-18-2006, 01:50 AM

so its basically, cutting unwanted bodyfat before a cycle and you do this by cycling your carbs or generally reducing the amount of carbs you take in daily over a period of 4-6 weeks before an upcoming cycle - and adding cardio as well?

**marcus300** · 10-18-2006, 01:53 AM

Originally Posted by doctadank

so its basically, cutting unwanted bodyfat before a cycle and you do this by cycling your carbs or generally reducing the amount of carbs you take in daily over a period of 4-6 weeks before an upcoming cycle - and adding cardio as well?

Here is a post i did on another thread which might help you out-

The best prime ive used is 3-5 days low carbs 40% less than your maintance diet and 1 day high carb 15% higher than your maintance diet for 6-8 weeks, so i would reduce carbs by 40% for 3-5 days the glycogen stores start to deplete and when muscle glycogen stores are lower a metabolic shift occurs where additional fat is used for fuel which in turn promotes fat loss so after you return back to 1 day high carb intake the extra carbs simply re-store muscles with glycogen, so as long as there is room for more glucose from carbs the carbs must be stored as glycogen, but with only one day higher carbs the store are not fully full so the next time you do 3-5 day lower carbs the stores get even more depleted which even triggers more fat loss but the high day carb is enough to stop the starvation response of the body so no metabolic shift to slow it down,

When you go 7 days or over (and this figure varies in between individuals this is why you have to listen to your body) fat cells attempt to hold on by resisting the release of fatty acids then levels of lipoprotein lipase tend to rise and thyroid levels drop and both of theses affects overall basel metabolism and the starvation response which off sets reduction in energy, (muscle loss)this is why increasing the carbs intake is vital and interrupts the response of the body to slow down and suppresses the release of the fat storing enzyme lipoprotein,

Also by increasing the carbs for that one day it stimulates the metabolic rate, because when glycogen levels drop followed by an increase in calories even an increase what in more than the normal maintenance diet the body responds by increasing thermogenesis which in turn burns fat without using muscle tissue as energy,

This overall procedure puts your body into a very anabolic environment for muscle tissue to grow couple this with a short burst cycle and growth is amazing, but i must stress the prime as to be done correctly to take full advantage

The trick is calculating how many low carb days is correct?? this comes with listening to the body if you need to deplete more go more low days, if its to much and a risk of tissue being burnt then decrease the low carb days, with
Things are coming together now, am liking it

Because the lack of insulin while priming protien needs to be increased enough so keep protien high and amino acids, if muscle loss occurs the metabolism will shift and everything then needs to be adjust to suit but this isnt what your after, simple eat more protien and give the body additional aminos that can be used as fuel so sparing muscle mass,

Essentially the body will more or less always burn aminos from foods rather than burn muscle tissue so increasing protien while lowering carbs is essential, so the carb cycling coupled with the increased protien creates the enviroment your after before a cycle, your opening a gates for muscle tissue to grow so when the prime ends feed feed feed feed the body and the short cycle.
__________________

**rgbz** · 10-18-2006, 01:55 AM

Originally Posted by marcus300

Yes i burn fat but not the hot feeling, i do get a strange sensation in the head when running high dosages but this is common due to the high levels of test,

You can build huge amounts of new muscle tissue with priming and short cycling, you also dont have to be advance to use short cycles, moderate dose short cycles work well also.

cool bro, i read paul borresons old stuff and duchaines theory on receptor upregulation at 4g+. Goodstuff thanks for the info

**marcus300** · 10-18-2006, 01:59 AM

Originally Posted by rgbz

cool bro, i read paul borresons old stuff and duchaines theory on receptor upregulation at 4g+. Goodstuff thanks for the info

Paul was a friend of mine and he was the one who designed all my short cycles years ago, he had some strange views but boy did they build muscle, i was in contact with him while he was designing Dorians cycles for the Mr O and if short cycling suits you the results are outstanding just like DY, his books are a great read but i must say thing have move on alittle but PB was years ahead of the game in my eyes.

**marcus300** · 10-18-2006, 02:01 AM

Originally Posted by rgbz

cool bro, i read paul borresons old stuff and duchaines theory on receptor upregulation at 4g+. Goodstuff thanks for the info

Also check out this thread i did regarding short heavy cycling

Short heavy cyles explained- PB theory

**rgbz** · 10-18-2006, 02:09 AM

yeah i read it a few months back, i didnt bother posting though cause didnt wanna get into discussion on doses and then alot of ignorant dudes that havnt tried or seen it come in and comment on what works

**IBdmfkr** · 10-22-2006, 08:58 AM

bump for Marcus...

Question:

When you state dip 40% below maintenance, are you suggesting 40% below what your normal carb intake would be or 40% below your maintenance caloric intake?

ex. 1 - Say I eat 250g Prot/500carbs/50g fat per day.
Would I drop the carbs to 200g/day and compensate the calories with Prot/fats for my low carb days?
If so what would you suggest caloric intake be? How far over or under maintenance on low carb days, and high carb days?

or

ex. 2 - I would dip my maintenance calories 40%below normal (I believe you're speaking of the first example).
My maintenance is say 3200/day, on low carb I'd drop calories to approx 1800/day, high carb approx 3600/day?

Thanks.

**marcus300** · 10-22-2006, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by I**mfkr

bump for Marcus...

Question:

When you state dip 40% below maintenance, are you suggesting 40% below what your normal carb intake would be or 40% below your maintenance caloric intake?

ex. 1 - Say I eat 250g Prot/500carbs/50g fat per day.
Would I drop the carbs to 200g/day and compensate the calories with Prot/fats for my low carb days?
If so what would you suggest caloric intake be? How far over or under maintenance on low carb days, and high carb days?

or

ex. 2 - I would dip my maintenance calories 40%below normal (I believe you're speaking of the first example).
My maintenance is say 3200/day, on low carb I'd drop calories to approx 1800/day, high carb approx 3600/day?

Thanks.

Before you start to prime you should be on a stable diet one whats as been established for some time and the body is not gaining weight or losing weight a maintenance diet what keeps you at the required weight,

This is the diet what you work off, if your having for an example 500g of carbs for the 3-5 day low carb days you would drop that by 40% which equals 200g, 3-5 day low carbs will vary some extend the days to up to 6 and some stay around 2, i personally find 3-5 days just right for my depletion before i start to loss any muscle tissue, this is the trick, you get this right and results are big, all you got to do is do it slowly,

first you can always up the length of low day carbs, your better doing that than going to long on low carbs this will trigger the starvation response of the body and muscle tissue will breakdown, when muscle tissue breaks downs your metabolism will take a shift and this is something you down,

Protein needs to be adjusted during low day carbs, an increase to compensate, the amount varies again this is something you need to work out individually, some just need to increase slightly and some need to fully compensated the calories, so long as the extra protein and amino's are added then you shouldn't be having any problems,

On the 1 day high carb day you increase by 15%, and thats 15% higher than your maintenance diet of carbs, so in our example the maintenance carbs is 500g so it would be 575g for 1 day, this will off set any muscle tissue loss and isn't high enough to fully restore the glycogen stores, so when you go low carbs again you get even more depleted without muscle loss, and thats when the fun starts.

**marcus300** · 10-22-2006, 10:27 AM

PS, some more info what i written for someone which might make understanding alittle better-

when you start to reduce carbs by 40% for 3-5 days the glycogen stores start to deplete and when muscle glycogen stores are lower a metabolic shift occurs where additional fat is used for fuel which in turn promotes fat loss so after you return back to 1 day high carb intake the extra carbs simply re-store muscles with glycogen, so as long as there is room for more glucose from carbs the carbs must be stored as glycogen, but with only one day higher carbs the store are not fully full so the next time you do 3-5 day lower carbs the stores get even more depleted which even triggers more fat loss but the high day carb is enough to stop the starvation response of the body so no metabolic shift to slow it down,

When you go 7 days or over (and this figure varies in between individuals this is why you have to listen to your body) fat cells attempt to hold on by resisting the release of fatty acids then levels of lipoprotein lipase tend to rise and thyroid levels drop and both of theses affects overall basel metabolism and the starvation response which off sets reduction in energy, this is why increasing the carbs intake is vital and interrupts the response of the body to slow down and suppresses the release of the fat storing enzyme lipoprotein,

Also by increasing the carbs for that one day it stimulates the metabolic rate, because when glycogen levels drop followed by an increase in calories even an increase what in more than the normal maintenance diet the body responds by increasing thermogenesis which in turn burns fat without using muscle tissue as energy,

This overall procedure puts your body into a very anabolic environment for muscle tissue to grow couple this with a short burst cycle and growth is amazing, but i must stress the prime as to be done correctly to take full advantage

**stupidhippo** · 10-22-2006, 12:21 PM

i understand the nutritional stuff IMO adequately but what I would like to know is how to adjust training volume to minimize muscle loss.. If I was just doing BB it would be pretty easy but when u are doing grappling/kickboxing 4 times a week + cardio on top of gym it might complicate things.. well I guess I gotta live and learn.. ofcourse if marcus has some good thumb rules for those Im all ears...

**IBdmfkr** · 10-22-2006, 12:49 PM

Thanks marcus, so it's like a normal carb cycling procedure.. that's what I was making sure.

Would you suggest cardio?

**V_Vandetta** · 10-22-2006, 12:55 PM

I have just completed 5weeks priming( Marcus300) way ... and it was very easy .... plenty of fat loss with no muscle loss what so ever I went from 280 too 265 as of to day and start with the 4 weeks cycle tomorrow ... the trick was not so much the training or the cardeio but diet keeping keytosis mid to low range .... But will let you bro's know how the cycle goes

**stupidhippo** · 10-22-2006, 12:57 PM

good work.. let us know about ur progress.. did u change ur workouts at all?

**V_Vandetta** · 10-22-2006, 01:11 PM

Originally Posted by stupidhippo

good work.. let us know about ur progress.. did u change ur workouts at all?

yes i did change up a few things .. I used more of a pre contest routine for training...just pumping blood to muscle groups. higher reps lower weight but found myself hitting failure as well... Now on cycle I will be going to Isometric failure training heavy weighst low reps max blood voulem

**stupidhippo** · 10-22-2006, 01:18 PM

I hear lots f conflicting reports on this.. cause many ppl claim that u should keep on using big weights.. I have done this and I did lose a lot of muscle while priming.. maybe ill try this way the next time..

**V_Vandetta** · 10-22-2006, 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by stupidhippo

I hear lots f conflicting reports on this.. cause many ppl claim that u should keep on using big weights.. I have done this and I did lose a lot of muscle while priming.. maybe ill try this way the next time..

some people are different Yes.... but when I say lower weight I mean take for exsample incline dumbell presses for chest I may push 110 pounders each hand for 8-10 reps but when carb depleteing my body dont responde with that kinda of weight .. so I drop down to 85 pound dumbells where I can still get a good weight but higer reps of 12-15

**stupidhippo** · 10-22-2006, 01:50 PM

its definelty worth a shot... I mean its definetly a possibility that this kind of system would help.. I just aint used to doing this high reps.. u think I should still every now and then do lower reps, higher weights - or keep doing the higher reps the whole time when recovering or calorie restricted..

**V_Vandetta** · 10-22-2006, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by stupidhippo

its definelty worth a shot... I mean its definetly a possibility that this kind of system would help.. I just aint used to doing this high reps.. u think I should still every now and then do lower reps, higher weights - or keep doing the higher reps the whole time when recovering or calorie restricted..

Its one of them things bro that you have to try .. becasue it would be hard to determin .. but anytime I have to carb deplete .. I know from past experinace while on AAS or not My body is weaker with the less carbs via ATP a lot lower .. so i find that i can keep much better muscle voulem and strengh with lower weight higher reps ...

I think it will help out greatly .. what i would do if I was you keep a logg on this sytem diet, training, weight ,reps ..ect.... now as you go through the new training things may chage or you need to play with carbs numbers .. but keep it charted .. this way you can compare ... and I think that this way works great it does for me

**stupidhippo** · 10-22-2006, 02:08 PM

thx for the info..... definetly gonna try this soon.. final question: do u do this all the time or do u have like a week in betweeen with heavier weights.. and also do u apply this to PCT or only when carb depleted.

BG · 10-22-2006, 02:46 PM

a must read.

**marcus300** · 10-23-2006, 01:27 AM

Originally Posted by I**mfkr

Thanks marcus, so it's like a normal carb cycling procedure.. that's what I was making sure.

Would you suggest cardio?

Yes you got it, adjust as you go along to suit your body tho, fat loss is a bonus its all about creating the anabolic environment for growth

**marcus300** · 10-23-2006, 01:29 AM

Originally Posted by V_Vandetta

I have just completed 5weeks priming( Marcus300) way ... and it was very easy .... plenty of fat loss with no muscle loss what so ever I went from 280 too 265 as of to day and start with the 4 weeks cycle tomorrow ... the trick was not so much the training or the cardeio but diet keeping keytosis mid to low range .... But will let you bro's know how the cycle goes

Excellent news, thats what am taking about V as got it spot on and now his body is ready for growth, if the right compounds and training is designed the growth will be very good and fast,

**marcus300** · 10-23-2006, 01:31 AM

Originally Posted by V_Vandetta

Its one of them things bro that you have to try .. becasue it would be hard to determin .. but anytime I have to carb deplete .. I know from past experinace while on AAS or not My body is weaker with the less carbs via ATP a lot lower .. so i find that i can keep much better muscle voulem and strengh with lower weight higher reps ...

I think it will help out greatly .. what i would do if I was you keep a logg on this sytem diet, training, weight ,reps ..ect.... now as you go through the new training things may chage or you need to play with carbs numbers .. but keep it charted .. this way you can compare ... and I think that this way works great it does for me

Sound advice, agree

**AnabolicAndre** · 10-25-2006, 08:35 AM

Bizzzzzzzzzzzzzzzump

**auslifta** · 03-29-2007, 12:11 AM

bump

**malidfa** · 07-01-2008, 09:01 PM

i have started my prime yesterday so far so good doing it for 6-8 weeks see how everyhting goes then ill be doing a short heavy burst cycle

**Ernst** · 07-01-2008, 09:35 PM

Very interesting. Good post!

Kinda old....... but good!

**auslifta** · 11-26-2008, 03:54 AM

bump old fav

BG · 12-16-2008, 02:07 PM

Im bumping this for all you guys that arent getting gains from your cycles.

**M302_Imola** · 12-17-2008, 12:42 PM

Sweet, I somehow missed this post awhile back when I was searching for "priming". I would love for the guys who have tried priming to give some feedback. I am going to do a cut cycle in a month or two and was wondering if there would be much benefit for priming the body before a 10 week cut cycle?

**marcus300** · 12-17-2008, 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by M302_Imola

Sweet, I somehow missed this post awhile back when I was searching for "priming". I would love for the guys who have tried priming to give some feedback. I am going to do a cut cycle in a month or two and was wondering if there would be much benefit for priming the body before a 10 week cut cycle?

The prime if done correctly will cut your body up and there will be no need to do a cutting cycle, use the environment what the prime created to build muscle tissue within the growth window along side a lean bulk/bulking cycle..

**ilovesus** · 12-17-2008, 03:12 PM

Very well said! BUMP!

**wrestless** · 12-17-2008, 04:04 PM

Great post hope it works for me . I have been dieting with the 3day low 1 high for close to 3 months, starting my cycle 12/22/08 a little nervous as I cant seem to get rid of excess 1/2 of fat on my lower abs. Am doing 45 min
of cardio 6 days a week and wondering if its ever going to go away. My show is in April and I truly don't see any change in the fat content in Abs only. All
other body parts are tight and vascular.

PS Not sure if this post belongs here but looking for some input

**Matt** · 12-17-2008, 04:29 PM

Awesome thread its given me some great ideas.

**marcus300** · 12-18-2008, 10:19 AM

Bump

BG · 12-21-2008, 08:20 PM

^^^ttt^^^

**Doub1e_J** · 01-28-2009, 10:31 PM

Going to be starting my cycle in 4 wks or so. I will give this a try. One thing I did not see you comment on Marcus was the use of clen and cardio while priming. I have seen others reply but I wanted to know your personal opinion on the subject.

Thanks for the great post!

**gymnerd** · 01-28-2009, 11:16 PM

Very interesting read thanks for the info.

**M302_Imola** · 01-29-2009, 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by Doub1e_J

Going to be starting my cycle in 4 wks or so. I will give this a try. One thing I did not see you comment on Marcus was the use of clen and cardio while priming. I have seen others reply but I wanted to know your personal opinion on the subject.

Thanks for the great post!

I'm curious as well!