The Prime explained before cycling..

[Iron Mind]

Awesome read. This priming stuff got my attention. I'm thinking about what the benefit of this priming is.

Is it that someone has a lower bodyfat from the start that helps or is it just to make your body more sensitive to the upcoming kcal surplus.

I'm thinking about what to do, since I'm already pretty lean. Bodyfat should be around 8-10%. Not sure if I should implement a little cut/prime before going on cycle on my bodyfat.

Anyone with an opinion about this?

[mrtypr]

Bodyfat should be around 8-10%. Not sure if I should implement a little cut/prime before going on cycle on my bodyfat.

Anyone with an opinion about this?

ID like to know this as well

Marcus has said its not intended to cut fat but to manipulate glycogen stores for better gains during cycle

The problem at the moment is I want to be lean as well before I start to cycle to. At the moment from bulking I am not that lean. Maybe about 15% bodyfat

My typical cutting diet/program I normally do that works great for me and gets me ripped within 6 weeks is i gradually decrease carbs over 6 weeks and on the last 3 weeks I am only have about .5 grams of carbs per pound of body weight, then I have a high carb day once a week (within those last 3 weeks) - training consists of 6 day split weights and HITT

sheds fat like crazy - just want to know if this is also a good way to prime, I am trying to achieve 2 goals here before cycle

[marcus300]

Awesome read. This priming stuff got my attention. I'm thinking about what the benefit of this priming is.

Is it that someone has a lower bodyfat from the start that helps or is it just to make your body more sensitive to the upcoming kcal surplus.

I'm thinking about what to do, since I'm already pretty lean. Bodyfat should be around 8-10%. Not sure if I should implement a little cut/prime before going on cycle on my bodyfat.

Anyone with an opinion about this?

Its to open a growth window so when you start your cycle your respond straight away and can gains can be outstanding due to you manipulating your glycogen stores to help create this anabolic window.

It hasn't got anything to do what bf you are because the goal isn't to cut bf, but for many you will lose some during this pre cycle prime.

ID like to know this as well

Marcus has said its not intended to cut fat but to manipulate glycogen stores for better gains during cycle

The problem at the moment is I want to be lean as well before I start to cycle to. At the moment from bulking I am not that lean. Maybe about 15% bodyfat

My typical cutting diet/program I normally do that works great for me and gets me ripped within 6 weeks is i gradually decrease carbs over 6 weeks and on the last 3 weeks I am only have about .5 grams of carbs per pound of body weight, then I have a high carb day once a week (within those last 3 weeks) - training consists of 6 day split weights and HITT

sheds fat like crazy - just want to know if this is also a good way to prime, I am trying to achieve 2 goals here before cycle

If you have never primed before just try it and see how you respond. You will no doubt lose some bf but the prime is done slowly so your metabolism doesn't change while your depleting your glycogen stores. You may need to go with a 10 weeks prime and extend the low carb days but that's something what your going to have to find out as you start priming.

You can spring board out of a cutting diet into a cycle and see similar results the only problem is you would of altered your metabolism and you will probably increase in bf quickly due to your metabolism running slower.

[mrtypr]

Its to open a growth window so when you start your cycle your respond straight away and can gains can be outstanding due to you manipulating your glycogen stores to help create this anabolic window.

It hasn't got anything to do what bf you are because the goal isn't to cut bf, but for many you will lose some during this pre cycle prime.



If you have never primed before just try it and see how you respond. You will no doubt lose some bf but the prime is done slowly so your metabolism doesn't change while your depleting your glycogen stores. You may need to go with a 10 weeks prime and extend the low carb days but that's something what your going to have to find out as you start priming.

mmmmm

ok

Well, I am not going to cycle untill about May, Still got time

What if I do a quick cut now for those 6 weeks, then carb cycle slower after that?

That way I will loose the bodyfat I want to loose before my cycle and then I can slowly carb cycle untill untill I start my AAS cycle ( Mid may/10 weeks) without all that added cardio (HITT)

You can spring board out of a cutting diet into a cycle and see similar results the only problem is you would of altered your metabolism and you will probably increase in bf quickly due to your metabolism running slower.

Wouldnt my metabolism be running faster if I am doing cutting diet and training due to the HITT + Weights

[marcus300]

mmmmm

ok

Well, I am not going to cycle untill about May, Still got time

What if I do a quick cut now for those 6 weeks, then carb cycle slower after that?

That way I will loose the bodyfat I want to loose before my cycle and then I can slowly carb cycle untill untill I start my AAS cycle ( Mid may/10 weeks) without all that added cardio (HITT)

I don't think you have read the thread properly, if you cut you will alter your metabolism which is something you don't want to happen when you do a pre cycle prime. You also need to run a prime of a maintenance diet what's been established for at least 6-8 weeks.

If you do a long prime you will lose the bf you require but remember its not a race to lose the bf and its not the primary goal your trying to achieve when implementing a prime

[mrtypr]

I don't think you have read the thread properly, if you cut you will alter your metabolism which is something you don't want to happen when you do a pre cycle prime. You also need to run a prime of a maintenance diet what's been established for at least 6-8 weeks.

If you do a long prime you will lose the bf you require but remember its not a race to lose the bf and its not the primary goal your trying to achieve when implementing a prime

I not trying to rush this just want to execute this properly. I will start my AAS cycle as soon as I finish my prime

Correct me if I am wrong its been a while since I read info about metbolism etc, but wouldnt my metabolism speed up rapidly if I am doing lots of HITT ? Even though I am eating a caloric deficit?

[marcus300]

I not trying to rush this just want to execute this properly. I will start my AAS cycle as soon as I finish my prime

Correct me if I am wrong its been a while since I read info about metbolism etc, but wouldnt my metabolism speed up rapidly if I am doing lots of HITT ? Even though I am eating a caloric deficit?

You don't want to alter your metabolism at all when implementing a prime. The prime needs to be ran of a diet what is maintaining your current LBM which has been established for at least 6-8 weeks. The prime if a tool to use to open a growth window so when you start a cycle you will start seeing gains straight from the onset.

If you want to diet and do aload of cardio and run a calorie deficit to cut some bf than that's fine but you don't want to run a prime straight after that, you need to establish a maintenance diet for at least 6-8 weeks then run a prime.

Why don't you just run a long prime which will result in more bf loss but it will be done slowly which will be even better, the longer the prime the better it can be. You can also mess around with it and add in some cardio to help burn some more bf just make sure you refeed and don't go over 5-6 days low carb days.

[mrtypr]

You don't want to alter your metabolism at all when implementing a prime. The prime needs to be ran of a diet what is maintaining your current LBM which has been established for at least 6-8 weeks. The prime if a tool to use to open a growth window so when you start a cycle you will start seeing gains straight from the onset.

If you want to diet and do aload of cardio and run a calorie deficit to cut some bf than that's fine but you don't want to run a prime straight after that, you need to establish a maintenance diet for at least 6-8 weeks then run a prime.

Why don't you just run a long prime which will result in more bf loss but it will be done slowly which will be even better, the longer the prime the better it can be. You can also mess around with it and add in some cardio to help burn some more bf just make sure you refeed and don't go over 5-6 days low carb days.

OK mate might start a long prime and see how I go

Reason why I wanted to do this quick cut ( 6 weeks ) is because I trust it a lot I get really good results from it

But i was not going to run the cycle straight after the cut

I was going to run the 6 week cardio/weights/caloric deficit cut first, then after that I was going to run the carb cycling prime ( 6-8 weeks ) at maintenance calories. Then do the AAS cycle

Thats what I meant in my previous post sorry if I was not that clear

but lets see how this longer carb cycle prime goes

thanks a lot, you saved me from doing a mistake

[marcus300]

OK mate might start a long prime and see how I go

Reason why I wanted to do this quick cut ( 6 weeks ) is because I trust it a lot I get really good results from it

But i was not going to run the cycle straight after the cut

I was going to run the 6 week cardio/weights/caloric deficit cut first, then after that I was going to run the carb cycling prime ( 6-8 weeks ) at maintenance calories. Then do the AAS cycle

Thats what I meant in my previous post sorry if I was not that clear

but lets see how this longer carb cycle prime goes

thanks a lot, you saved me from doing a mistake

You need to run a prime off a maintenance diet what's been established for at least 6-8 weeks IMHO. If you want to run a cut then prime that's your choice I am just explaining what works best for a pre cycle prime going into a cycle.

[mrtypr]

You need to run a prime off a maintenance diet what's been established for at least 6-8 weeks IMHO. If you want to run a cut then prime that's your choice I am just explaining what works best for a pre cycle prime going into a cycle.

Yep I understand

I will do this. I am also going away for 6 nights on a holiday which falls right into the prime. Hope this does not throw it off to much

might be hard to carb-cycle during holiday

[marcus300]

Yep I understand

I will do this. I am also going away for 6 nights on a holiday which falls right into the prime. Hope this does not throw it off to much

might be hard to carb-cycle during holiday

You will be fine you can just start it up again once you get back, seeing that its a long prime you'll be ok with a few days off.

[mrtypr]

You will be fine you can just start it up again once you get back, seeing that its a long prime you'll be ok with a few days off.

Thanks very much for all your answers marcus.. Very much appreciated

[marcus300]

Thanks very much for all your answers marcus.. Very much appreciated

Let me know how you get on and how you find it, make sure you monitor the results

No probs

[mrtypr]

Let me know how you get on and how you find it, make sure you monitor the results

No probs

yeh ill be taking before and after shots

ill post them here

[Iron Mind]

Its to open a growth window so when you start your cycle your respond straight away and can gains can be outstanding due to you manipulating your glycogen stores to help create this anabolic window.

It hasn't got anything to do what bf you are because the goal isn't to cut bf, but for many you will lose some during this pre cycle prime.



If you have never primed before just try it and see how you respond. You will no doubt lose some bf but the prime is done slowly so your metabolism doesn't change while your depleting your glycogen stores. You may need to go with a 10 weeks prime and extend the low carb days but that's something what your going to have to find out as you start priming.

You can spring board out of a cutting diet into a cycle and see similar results the only problem is you would of altered your metabolism and you will probably increase in bf quickly due to your metabolism running slower.

Alright, so basically it's a maintenance diet with several low-carb days and several (1-3) high carb days. I must have missed the point of that it's not intented to cut. Should make sense, because I don't want to lower my metabolism (too much) also the weeks before I start my cycle..

And especially before you jump into your cycle you will deplete your muscles through training and 3-4 days low-carb and then jump into a carb-load and start injecting your AAS while you load carbs, right?

Sounds like a nice plan, but would it help when you're starting with a long ester, for example test-e. Wouldn't it work to slow to help me store extra glycogen due increased testosterone in my system.

Or should a prime only be used for test-prop or shorter esters?

[marcus300]

Alright, so basically it's a maintenance diet with several low-carb days and several (1-3) high carb days. I must have missed the point of that it's not intented to cut. Should make sense, because I don't want to lower my metabolism (too much) also the weeks before I start my cycle..

And especially before you jump into your cycle you will deplete your muscles through training and 3-4 days low-carb and then jump into a carb-load and start injecting your AAS while you load carbs, right?

Sounds like a nice plan, but would it help when you're starting with a long ester, for example test-e. Wouldn't it work to slow to help me store extra glycogen due increased testosterone in my system.

Or should a prime only be used for test-prop or shorter esters?

This process creates a very anabolic environment so muscle tissue can grow at a fast rate when you start a cycle, there are plenty of ways this process can be done. In simple terms you simply carb cycle very slowly and manipulate your glycogen stores without altering your metabolism. Many experience this kind of process just when they are dieting for a comp but a prime is done a lot slower. The main objective isn’t to lose bf but to create this special environment, alot of BB's who have done comps will understand this process and know how much can be obtained during this special environment . Dorain was a big believer in this priming and would be straight back into the gym after big shows taking advantage of this valuable tool.

I have tried many different ways with my own body to find out which one suits me better and i prefer to cycle my carbs 3 low 1 high, this will create a very anabolic environment for muscle tissue to grow, the muscle receptors get highly excitable and upgrade and able to accept more glucose and because glucose levels are not full in the muscle the result is more deposited into the muscle when you start the cycle and increase the food, this environment builds muscle tissue very quickly, if this is done correctly and timed right when you start the cycle, growth is amazing, i feel priming is a must when considering any cycle but it does work and is ideal towards short cycling.

With the carb prime rotation process i follow 3 days low carbs(40% less than normal) 1 day high (15% higher than normal) You must have a basic stable maintenance diet which you have ran for a few wks before doing such a process. Ii feel this isn't to harsh on your muscle tissue and the 1 high carb day offsets any potential metabolic slowdown, which is extremely usefull in laying down metabolic boosting muscle or at least saving it. if this process is not done right you will lose muscle tissue so careful planning is needed to hold on to all the muscle gains you have, when any kind of priming is done an increase in protein/aminos acids will help to maintain the current muscle tissue, also GH would benefit in helping this process, the high carb/low carb rotational prime diet also upgrades the receptors sites on muscle tissue for insulin , this changes the body's ability to store carbs as glycogen in muscle tissue rather than fat. The priming works far better if its done over a longer period of time, You will burn unwanted body fat while maintaining muscle tissue and a slow reduction in carbs towards the cycle start will create an ideal environment for huge muscle gains. Also the last 5 days to the run up to the start of the cycle should be low carbs (40%).

Another way of priming is the slow reduction of carbs within your diet over 6-8 weeks or longer, make sure protein is increased in any of the priming methods so muscle loss is stopped or at least kept to a minimum, when ever the prime is done it creates an environment for muscle tissue to grow very quickly so when you do start your cycle all this coupled with a AAS and all the other compounds you use and the increase in food intake makes this an ideal environment for muscle tissue to grow and huge tissue gains are experienced.

The idea is to create an environment so you spring board into a cycle, there are certain things what must be in place so you dont receive muscle tissue loss before the cycle but when its done correctly the gains are amazing, its a excellent tool to have on any cycle.I feel alot of newbies think that AAS is the whole key to building the perfect body but its not, its just one tool for the job there are many other things what come into play to help the process of building muscle and priming is one of them.

[shooter2014]

Thanks Marcus

Yours posts have been invaluable to me. Not only this one but I am very interested by the 30 day cycles. Being 41 I feel for me this is a safe practical way for me to still enjoy my bodybuilding and enhance myself. My only cycle history is a 12 week or test e (500 mg week) and primo depot (600 mg per week)

I made great gains and recovered well but have lost a substantial amount as my cycle ended August 2014 but being a first cycle I wanted to ensure full recovery.

I have been on a stable diet since new year and am now priming to start a SBC 1st March.

I have never upped and downed the carbs as you suggest so am very interested how I will respond. My only concern is energy levels during workout. Since Jan I have been hitting the cardio 4 times per week as even though I had the same cal intake I was putting on fat so wanted to strip some fat for 20 mins prior to workout (the exception being back as I'm to wiped out)

I will keep you informed how I get on... really excited for my cycle to start

[Iron Mind]

Thanks Marcus

Yours posts have been invaluable to me. Not only this one but I am very interested by the 30 day cycles. Being 41 I feel for me this is a safe practical way for me to still enjoy my bodybuilding and enhance myself. My only cycle history is a 12 week or test e (500 mg week) and primo depot (600 mg per week)

I made great gains and recovered well but have lost a substantial amount as my cycle ended August 2014 but being a first cycle I wanted to ensure full recovery.

I have been on a stable diet since new year and am now priming to start a SBC 1st March.

I have never upped and downed the carbs as you suggest so am very interested how I will respond. My only concern is energy levels during workout. Since Jan I have been hitting the cardio 4 times per week as even though I had the same cal intake I was putting on fat so wanted to strip some fat for 20 mins prior to workout (the exception being back as I'm to wiped out)

I will keep you informed how I get on... really excited for my cycle to start

Maybe a bit off-topic for this topic, but you say you did recover fully. Did you check it with bloodtesting to see if reached the pre-cycle T and LH, FSH baseline values again 6-8 weeks after your PCT? Just curious about this tbh


Btw to help your energy levels on lower-carb diets. I'd try to switch the cardio to after your workout to safe more energy for your actual workout.

[Iron Mind]

Alright thanks Marcus for your info.

I'll try to go 2-3 days low-carb and the other days medium-high to try it out.

[shooter2014]

Maybe a be a bit off-topic for this topic, but you say you did recover fully. Did you check it with bloodtesting to see if reached the pre-cycle T and LH, FSH baseline values again 6-8 weeks after your PCT? Just curious about this tbh


Btw to help your energy levels on lower-carb diets. I'd try to switch the cardio to after your workout to safe more energy for your actual workout.

Had a good workout today and done my run after. Went ok.

In regards to tests I use pulsescreening. I had my test levels done before my cycle and again only last week. I did have my test tested just before xmas and was pretty sound. I used erase pro for a month after my norm pct and this seemed to really help

I have my liver count done at the normal docs as a few in my family have had liver related illnesses (mainly through drink it must me said) but I use this as a reason to convince my dc to run my tests. I don't tell him about the cycle but I do get myself checked

sorry to go off topic. Thanks for the advise iron, and again great post marcus

[Iron Mind]

Had a good workout today and done my run after. Went ok.

In regards to tests I use pulsescreening. I had my test levels done before my cycle and again only last week. I did have my test tested just before xmas and was pretty sound. I used erase pro for a month after my norm pct and this seemed to really help

I have my liver count done at the normal docs as a few in my family have had liver related illnesses (mainly through drink it must me said) but I use this as a reason to convince my dc to run my tests. I don't tell him about the cycle but I do get myself checked

sorry to go off topic. Thanks for the advise iron, and again great post marcus

Sounds like everything went well then. Awesome.

Good luck, see you around on the forum

[marcus300]

bump

[mrtypr]

Hi Marcus

About to start priming next week. Just want to clarify my calculations with you first before i start anything

My maintenance with exercise and daily activity is 3057calories

Lets say my normal macros are as follows:

Protein: 246g
Fat 90g
Carbs: 315g
Total calories:

On low carb (-40% carbs) day:

Protein: 372g
Fat 90g
Carbs 189g

( the INCREASED protein is to make up for the calorie loss to still equal 3057 calories maintenance level )

High carb day (+15% carbs):

Protein:200g
Fat 90g
Carbs 362g

( the DECREASE in protein is still make sure I do not exceed my mainteance calorie amount which is 3057)


Does this sound right? the low carb day is a pretty huge amount chicken lol

[blakegains]

Thanks for the explanation, just to be clear... If I use the slow reduction of carbs method, once I start my cycle I simply add back in my carbs to a normal level right? And continue through the whole cycle?

[mussina123]

Okay I've read this whole thread just making sure I got everything right..

Lets say I'm around 15-17% bf.. I want to get that lower before starting anything... doing the priming I'd..

1. Be on maintenance cals for 6-8 weeks as baseline
2. Drop carbs 40% on low days (around 3-5 days)
3. Increase carbs 15% above baseline for a day

Overtime bf% will decrease and you'll be primed for an anabolic environment!

When you start, you increase carbs on the low days? based on how you react to them, and keep cals as long as you're making weight/muscle gains?

Keep the high days in too or get rid of them?

[marcus300]

Okay I've read this whole thread just making sure I got everything right..

Lets say I'm around 15-17% bf.. I want to get that lower before starting anything... doing the priming I'd..

1. Be on maintenance cals for 6-8 weeks as baseline
2. Drop carbs 40% on low days (around 3-5 days)
3. Increase carbs 15% above baseline for a day

Overtime bf% will decrease and you'll be primed for an anabolic environment!

When you start, you increase carbs on the low days? based on how you react to them, and keep cals as long as you're making weight/muscle gains?

Keep the high days in too or get rid of them?

The prime is a pre cycle prime.

If your after cutting your bf I'd suggest attacking your diet and cardio.

When on cycle and your bulking I'd eat accordingly to suit your goals.

If your carb sensitive and your coming out of a prime you would need to slowly increase the carbs over a two week period. If your not go straight into your cycle diet.

A prime is done slowly over many weeks

[mussina123]

The prime is a pre cycle prime.

If your after cutting your bf I'd suggest attacking your diet and cardio.

When on cycle and your bulking I'd eat accordingly to suit your goals.

If your carb sensitive and your coming out of a prime you would need to slowly increase the carbs over a two week period. If your not go straight into your cycle diet.

A prime is done slowly over many weeks

thanks for the answers

when you say attacking diet and cardio is that while following this protocol or doing this after you got to the bf% you wanna be before?

[marcus300]

thanks for the answers

when you say attacking diet and cardio is that while following this protocol or doing this after you got to the bf% you wanna be before?

If you need to diet do it via diet and cardio.

If you want to try a pre cycle prime do it before a cycle.

[mussina123]

If you need to diet do it via diet and cardio.

If you want to try a pre cycle prime do it before a cycle.

thanks man

[BeeStung]

so when you say low carbs you note its 40%. is that 40% of the total carbs or 40% less then what you typically take. for instance, if i take in 3200 calories and my carbs are at 1280 which is 40% would i take in 512 carbs less (40% less then 1280) or would i take in 960 carbs which is 30% from 3200 calories? sorry if i confused you but as im sre you can tell im confused to.

[TheTaxMan]

Why the hell is this not a sticky
this info is gold

[NACH3]

so when you say low carbs you note its 40%. is that 40% of the total carbs or 40% less then what you typically take. for instance, if i take in 3200 calories and my carbs are at 1280 which is 40% would i take in 512 carbs less (40% less then 1280) or would i take in 960 carbs which is 30% from 3200 calories? sorry if i confused you but as im sre you can tell im confused to.

You just drop your normal intake of carbs by 40% for 3 low days followed by 1 high day(of 15% more than you'd normally consume) - then you can start extending the low days but never past 7 days without carbs(it'll mess up your metabolism and could also, go into starvation mode), no Bueno!

That sound about right, Marcus?

And regarding your cycle in your other threads(and that you've already cycled a couple times at 22yrs of age) I'd strongly suggest you get bs to see where your T levels are(and how much they've diminished - hopefully not too much) but shutting yourself down(HPTA) at your age isn't to smart... But to each his own...

[BeeStung]

You just drop your normal intake of carbs by 40% for 3 low days followed by 1 high day(of 15% more than you'd normally consume) - then you can start extending the low days but never past 7 days without carbs(it'll mess up your metabolism and could also, go into starvation mode), no Bueno!

That sound about right, Marcus?

And regarding your cycle in your other threads(and that you've already cycled a couple times at 22yrs of age) I'd strongly suggest you get bs to see where your T levels are(and how much they've diminished - hopefully not too much) but shutting yourself down(HPTA) at your age isn't to smart... But to each his own...

thank you Nach for the helpful advice and i know everyone here is all about healthy and smart ways of doing things. so i appreciate how you make sure you remind me each and every time i comment that cycling at 22 is a bad idea. but as you said. to each its own.

my first cycle wasnt really a cycle it was some petty prohormons that didnt effect me much at all. as i said in one of my post; i always felt like my test was low since i had so much soy as a child. i always held a lot of fat in my lower chest. after my cycle of test i fell great. my libido has been through the roof. my strenght gains are going up. my appetite is high. im energenic. everything has been perfect and i feel like i have the t levels of someone my age and its been 6 months now after my PCT. Tren might not be a good idea and weather i take it or not still might not happen but regardless i want to learn as much as i can.

diet is my weakness point and i never herd of priming so this post could very well help me in the areas that im still weak in so we will see how this goes. again Nach no disrespect but i understand the risk and until i start experiencing negative side effects then im going to cycle. no i havent got BW done either. not that i dont want to or cant afford it but theres no where that will do it without a script and my PCP wont write it for no reason.

[s4nchez]

Great post bro.

[TheTaxMan]

Going to try this on my next cycle, thank you for the info

[TheTaxMan]

Im noticing on my days with 40% less carbs that i am more hungry than normal, not starving but just like the meals arent as filling, all though im increasing the protein in them.

Is this normal? Do i need to eat a lil more so there is 0 hunger?

I feel less bloated and look leaner already just off a few days

[gtecthefuture]

Hi Marcus

About to start priming next week. Just want to clarify my calculations with you first before i start anything

My maintenance with exercise and daily activity is 3057calories

Lets say my normal macros are as follows:

Protein: 246g
Fat 90g
Carbs: 315g
Total calories:

On low carb (-40% carbs) day:

Protein: 372g
Fat 90g
Carbs 189g

( the INCREASED protein is to make up for the calorie loss to still equal 3057 calories maintenance level )

High carb day (+15% carbs):

Protein:200g
Fat 90g
Carbs 362g

( the DECREASE in protein is still make sure I do not exceed my mainteance calorie amount which is 3057)


Does this sound right? the low carb day is a pretty huge amount chicken lol

Seems very similar to my interpretation of the concept. Whats your feedback on this set up Marcus300?

[marcus300]

no1 pre cycle prime

[marcus300]

The most over looked tool on steroid use .

[Couchlock]

What exactly is a short cycle?

Can short cycles be done with test only?