Argument-Dbol/Winny No PCT

**BlazingPhoenix** · 03-27-2006, 10:08 AM

OK, so after reading and asking questions, I've decided to start my first cycle with Test E only. I've talked to a friend of mine and he said he wanted to do only one cycle and was going to do Dbol for 4 weeks and winny for 6 weeks.

I told him from what I had read I didn't think this was a good idea. When I asked him what his PCT was going to be, he said he wasn't going to do one because he said PCT was basically to get all your levels back up to normal quicker so that you could start on your second cycle, but since he was only going to do one, it would take longer get back to normal, but it would.

I told him to come here and read up but I don't think he will.
I want to get some answers from you guys and send it to him.

Is he right or am I? Is this not a good idea?
Are his thoughts on PCT correct? Will it come back on its own?
I've read on this board a few people who liked that combo, but most don't.

Please do not answer with canned answers or flames. I really need some educated answers to send him. What can he expect from this combo?

As far as stats, he's 35, about 6ft tall, about 190lbs, and in good shape.
He has been working out for a few years, so is already in pretty good shape. No idea what is bf is.

**MASTER** · 03-27-2006, 10:15 AM

He may well get away with it, but really is it worth the risk? When cycling, some form of pct should always be completed on completion of the cycle, why risk permanent problems for the sake of a few pounds and popping a few pills.

**01dragonslayer** · 03-27-2006, 10:16 AM

PCT is a must after every cycle. It helps your body recover by bringing testosterone levels back to normal which in turn helps you maintain your gains.

A dbol /winny cycle IMO is a waste of time and money. Gains from dbol are mainly from water and neary all your gaains will be lost after cycling off. To compound the issue...those are two 17aa s which makes it a very heptoxic cycle and thats too much stress on the liver.

Tell your buddy that he needs to do more research before starting any cycle.

**MASTER** · 03-27-2006, 10:17 AM

Also that cycle is horrible, running two orals as a first cycle is not a good idea, very strenuous on the liver and for that short amount of time will not yield good gains. Try and get him to do the same cycle as you, say lets compare results or something.

**Lil man 10** · 03-27-2006, 10:19 AM

Yes his levels wil eventually probably come back to level but it is ridiculous for him to think that he wont lose all of his gains during the down time, pct is not used to "get levels back up so you can do 2nd cycle" it is used to get natural test back to normal faster because the longer the levels are depressed the more you will lose, please let him know this is an ignorant cycle to start with and the thought of no pct is plain stupid!

**farrebarre** · 03-27-2006, 10:24 AM

IMO the pct is the most important part of the cycle, without the pct its like breaking ur legs and not going to a hospital coz "it will heal on its own eventyally"

**BlazingPhoenix** · 03-27-2006, 10:31 AM

Yes, I told him Clomid and Nolvadex (same thing I will be doing)
For his cycle is that correct?
I figured he would loose it all after he's done if he doesn't do it right (that will be probably the argument that gets him to reconsider :-)
When people talk about 'shutting down', what exactly does that mean?

**01dragonslayer** · 03-27-2006, 10:58 AM

Originally Posted by BlazingPhoenix

Yes, I told him Clomid and Nolvadex (same thing I will be doing)
When people talk about 'shutting down', what exactly does that mean?

That term is used to describe what happens to your normal testosterone production. When you start to supplement an external source of testosterone(ASS) its only natural that your own body's production of testosterone slows or stops as a result.

**BlazingPhoenix** · 03-27-2006, 11:48 AM

OK, got him convinced from this posts to do PCT (thanks everyone).
Is it still a good idea to do Dbol and Winny?
He said he would do milk thistle to help with the liver issue during the cycle.
If it is a good combo, how should he do it? (how much of what for how long).
If it isn't, let me know why it isn't and would not work.

I'm afraid he's being mislead by someone on that combo.

**Swifto** · 03-27-2006, 12:12 PM

Originally Posted by BlazingPhoenix

OK, got him convinced from this posts to do PCT (thanks everyone).
Is it still a good idea to do Dbol and Winny?
He said he would do milk thistle to help with the liver issue during the cycle.
If it is a good combo, how should he do it? (how much of what for how long).
If it isn't, let me know why it isn't and would not work.

I'm afraid he's being mislead by someone on that combo.

Loss of labido and stress on the liver will be side effects. Not to mention, bloating and possible hairloss. The most important to avoid out of these IMO is the liver toxicity. Winstrol is very hypatoxic and when combined with another 17aa I dont think its a wise choice, even if liver protectants are taken.

Do a search of Dianabol and Winstrol and their uses, dosages, durations of use, sides, positive effects and what they work in synergy with.

**01dragonslayer** · 03-27-2006, 04:38 PM

Originally Posted by BlazingPhoenix

OK, got him convinced from this posts to do PCT (thanks everyone).
Is it still a good idea to do Dbol and Winny?

I'm afraid he's being mislead by someone on that combo.

Dbol and winny is not a good option IMO. I'll say it again and echo Swifto....two 17aa s, harsh ones at that, will be too stressful on the liver.

No flame...but I'm afraid he's a little timid of needles.