Anyone had problem w/ Progesterone?

[grasshoppa]

I just read recently that Bromo should be kept on hand for a Deca cycle. I am ready to do my second cycle and want to increase the deca to about 300mg. and test @ 400mg. I have all other ancillaries needed but not bromo, one person recomended letro but that is an anti-e. Can letro prevent progesterone related sides? Anyone?

Has anyone here experienced any progesterone related sides?
I probably don't need to ask because I will probably buy the bromo first anyway..if I can find it. Just curious how prevelant progesterone related gyno or sides are. Are the symptoms different from estrogen sides? I feel I need the answers to these questions before I move.

Thanks Grasshoppa

[Kappa Capo]

I never use bromo or letro.
I use plain vitamin B6 at 500mg/ed, works fined and is HELL lot cheaper then adding bromo or letro.
And 300mg/w is low so you never gonna get it if your not very sensitive.
If your sensitive use B6 at 400-600mg/ED.

[grasshoppa]

My first cycle was 150mg deca /250 test. Just to be careful. Did 200mg of b6-ed. With no prob except for a slight itchness in left nipple which tomox took care of.

Thanks for the insight I will do some more research on b6....that sure would be a lot easier and cheaper.

Thanks Again.

grasshoppa

[restless1]

it was also reccomended i use b-6. i never had any problems. i only use 200mg a day

[grasshoppa]

Anyone else?

[ivrig]

at dose low doses you don`t need to worry, if the deca was over 600mg/w , then you can be suspicious. progestron and estro gives the same unwanted effect when it comes to gyno =)

[Swifto]

I never use bromo or letro.
I use plain vitamin B6 at 500mg/ed, works fined and is HELL lot cheaper then adding bromo or letro.
And 300mg/w is low so you never gonna get it if your not very sensitive.
If your sensitive use B6 at 400-600mg/ED.

At this dose your damaging your CNS. Dont exceed 200mg/ED

An AI will aid with reducing/preventing progesterone related sides. If the Progestin is kept to a low/moderate dose, I dont think an AI/Vit-B6 is needed. You can get away with Vit-B6 alone IMO. It depends greatly on the individual. For higher doses, an AI and Vit B-6 100-200mg/ED is suggested.

Progesterone related sides are only evident when estrogen is also present. So, reduce estrogen levels dramtically and reduce/prvent progesterone related side effects also.

[stupidhippo]

gotta agree with Swifto here.. .500 mg's is a dose that can seriously harm you... the safe upper limit is 200 mg's a day.. Many of us can handle a lot bigger doses but why risk it..

[IBdmfkr]

I've also read not to exceed 200mg/day for excessive amount of time.
If taking Deca +Tren you may consider bromo. Otherwise you should be fine. Eliminate most estrogen and you'll eliminate progesterone in most cases.

[RAF3070]

So it wouldnt be a good idea to take Anabol for the 1st 5 weeks of a deca and test cycle?, obviously estrogen is going to be highly present in that cycle when using the Anabol, if im taking 400mgs of deca as well, then theres going to be high progesterone and estrogen levels.

[IBdmfkr]

Some can get away with it no problem, others need an AI/SERM. Try it and see, that's all I can suggest.

[ant_8u]

As Swifto and IBdmfkr said

Eliminating the Estrogen will mean the Progesterone is pretty harmless

Take some B6 to be sure however

[RAF3070]

So it wouldnt be a good idea to take Anabol for the 1st 5 weeks of a deca and test cycle?, obviously estrogen is going to be highly present in that cycle when using the Anabol, if im taking 400mgs of deca as well, then theres going to be high progesterone and estrogen levels.

So you think I should be good go and include the Anabol in that cycle? I do plan on taking 200mgs a day of Vitamin B6 whilst on and have Nolva/Tamoxifen on hand in case of any probs, but will not use it through the cycle, just plan on keeping the Nolva for PCT.

[Kale]

Have a read of this guys, this is the thread from Pheedno http://67.18.108.244//showthread.php?t=125751 and this is what it says

Progesterone induced gynecomastia? Don't think so

I would like to cear up a few misconceptions about progesterone and gynecomastia .

Their is absolutely no steroid that aromatizes into progesterone. The reason for this is that progesteron does not have an aromatic A ring. So toss that myth out the window. Tren ? Deca ? Sorry but it just doesn't happen.

Now Tren and Deca bind pretty well to the PR. They are progestins in their own right without undergoing any structural changes, but their affinity is MUCH weaker than progesterone itself. Even more so when nandrolone is reduced by 5-alpha reductase into DHN. Their is a small chance of progestogenic activity that could aid in manifesting a mass in the mammry IF estrogen is present in supraphysiological amounts, without proper ratio to testosterone but I have never see a documented case of progestogenic gynecomastia. The reason for this is that the PR has two isoforms. The PR-A and PR-B. PR-B mediates stimulatory effects of progestins; PR-A which is bound with progestins or anti-progestins inhibits PR-B, and PR-A is dominant,. The response to progesterone is determined by the relative expression of the two isoforms.

There is a direct relationship between the PR isoforms and steroid concentrations an this direct relationship suggests high progesterone concentrations, but this will induce the expression of PR-A, which represses transcription of PR-B, which in turn supresses PR function and progestin effect
With initial administration of nandrolone or it's dirivitives, I could see an expression of PR-B but a rapid rise in PR-A will ultimately supress the function of the PR. IMO, you would need a high ratio of the two before concerns, and this is a bit more of a possiblity with the begining of administration. In this time of vulnerability, rest assured in aromatase inhibitors as progesterone is an E2 agonist so the utilization of an AI will help. I personally don't think the concern is warranted though

Their are 4 combinations of hormones that cause gyno- Estrogen, Progesterone, Prolactin, and IGF. Nandrolone is a weak progestin, which agonizes the PRL, it also raises IGF. Progesterone induced gyno is not really of a concern given binding affinity to the PR and the mechanism of the two isoforms. The production of prolactin is a deffinate risk. Not only can it be an inductor for gyno along side estrogen, IGF, and pogesterone; this chance is increased as prolactn lowers testosterone. So you need to make sure to take proper precautions to not only keep estrogen in check, but prolactin as well.

[vitor]

Good post Kale.

Been trying to find out the deal with Progesterone for quite some time. This answered most of my questions.

[IBdmfkr]

hmm, so all that talk about Tren /Deca is trash eh?

[ivrig]

can someone sum that up for me easily?

[IBdmfkr]

lol, that is summed up. I've seen articles 10pages long on this, those are confusing.

[ivrig]

yeah but in even more plain english, i`m a scandinavian you see. Just try to give me the sum =)

But i take it that prog-related problems are overrated?

[IBdmfkr]

According to "this" particular article, I've seen articles on both though, very controversial.