Tren Gyno Question - Anti E...

[Dave321]

..........

[taiboxa]

bromo cambergoline dostinex
one of those 3

[Dave321]

bromo cambergoline dostinex
one of those 3

hmmm... all greek to me... what's the best one Mr. Tai?!?!

[Dave321]

bromo cambergoline dostinex
one of those 3

p.s. can our chicks still make out?!?!?!

[taiboxa]

p.s. can our chicks still make out?!?!?!

OMFG get on aim u homo ><
and yes when rhonda gets to feeling better!

[heavyrotation92]

wouldnt the b6 be fine?

[BajanBastard]

Question...

Running tren/test e/letro/b6

Nervous about prog. gyno because letro is not a prog. blocker... what should I switch to in order to prevent this... arimadex?

Please advise.

Thanks Gents!

Incorrect, yes it is. Letro can reduce the number of progesterone receptor the tren has to bind too. T3 can also help with prolactin sides.

[Dave321]

OMFG get on aim u homo ><
and yes when rhonda gets to feeling better!

i will soon.... stay tuned!

[Dave321]

Incorrect, yes it is. Letro can reduce the number of progesterone receptor the tren has to bind too. T3 can also help with prolactin sides.

reeeeeally... interesting... I read in hookers profile.. I could be wrong, that is doesn't reduce prog. Thanks for the imput... would letro be enough?

[taiboxa]

reeeeeally... interesting... I read in hookers profile.. I could be wrong, that is doesn't reduce prog. Thanks for the imput... would letro be enough?

no K is right i remember talking bout this long time ago.
hell if u have 0 estrogen in you (which kinda sucks) u have 0 worries

[BajanBastard]

reeeeeally... interesting... I read in hookers profile.. I could be wrong, that is doesn't reduce prog. Thanks for the imput... would letro be enough?

You're looking at it the wrong way. Tren and deca does not aromatize into prog but act on the prog receptor. Deca binds at the rate of 20% and tren is 60% so using letro will give the deca/tren less prog receptors to bind too.

[Tren Bull]

Question...

Running tren/test e/letro/b6

Nervous about prog. gyno because letro is not a prog. blocker... what should I switch to in order to prevent this... arimadex?

Please advise.

Thanks Gents!

letro is stronger than arimidex, so imo it would be better to go with the letro. but, whatever you do, do NOT run nolva with tren, cause nolva will actually stimulate progesterone receptors. btw, ive heard rumors that letro actually does have anti progesterone abilities, but no one seems to know for sure if this is true or not

[Tren Bull]

also, there are two other things you should know about letro, first, it takes awhile for the levels of it in your blood to stabalize, so its a good idea to start the letro at least 2 weeks before you start your cycle. and secondly, letro has a very severe rebound effect, so when you stop taking it, you must slowly taper the dose down.

[rodosman]

how about aromasin for tren or deca related gyno? Does anyone have experience from this?

[Tren Bull]

how about aromasin for tren or deca related gyno? Does anyone have experience from this?

i dont know much about aromasin other than its an AI that has no rebound effect. imo, taking aromasin towards the end of a cycle where you used letro while on would be a good idea

[Dave321]

You're looking at it the wrong way. Tren and deca does not aromatize into prog but act on the prog receptor. Deca binds at the rate of 20% and tren is 60% so using letro will give the deca/tren less prog receptors to bind too.

you're a smart man.. .and tren bull, thanks for the imput too brotha.... mucho appreciated!

[Tren Bull]

you're a smart man.. .and tren bull, thanks for the imput too brotha.... mucho appreciated!

for sure bro, im glad i could help

[ivrig]

letro is stronger than arimidex, so imo it would be better to go with the letro. but, whatever you do, do NOT run nolva with tren, cause nolva will actually stimulate progesterone receptors. btw, ive heard rumors that letro actually does have anti progesterone abilities, but no one seems to know for sure if this is true or not

where do you get this from? I have red articles on that progestron is between testosteron and estrogen and you can use nolva, it`s a myth that it won`t help. But if you have some proof of this i would be glad to read it!

winny also works as a anti-prog

[ProteinFart]

I'm bumping this one because I'd like to hear this debate.
I'm on a deca / cyp cycle and I want to know that arimidex has my gyno covered. I was thinking (Researching) about adding some nolva or at least keeping it handy but if it's completely useless than I won't bother.

Cheers!

*bump*

[BajanBastard]

Nolva is not completely useless if you're on a nice dose of deca or tren (600+wk) anfd would like to increase your chances of getting some cute tits use the nolva. Nolva increases the PgR in breast tissue thus tren and its nasty metabolites and deca will have more to bind too.

[ant_8u]

Nolva is not completely useless if you're on a nice dose of deca or tren (600+wk) anfd would like to increase your chances of getting some cute tits use the nolva.....

Hey little lady

Look at my titties!

[ivrig]

i disagree that nolva will make prog-gyno EASIER to occur (it might be possibly if you take an insane dose of nolva..)i can`t see a foolproof protection against the prog-problem,but have heard the russian developed abort-pill RU-486 supposebly has some good effect (but the danger of inner bleeding is big enough to NOT advise anyone on cycle to use it). If prog are suppose to develope gyno, it needs estrogen in the body

Peter van Mol:

"If indeed the overall yield of estrogen is so much smaller, and so is the rate of androgen receptor stimulation, how then is nandrolone so anabolic? The common belief is through a third receptor : the progesterone receptor. It has been concluded that both nandrolone2 and several of its metabolites3,4 do indeed activate the progesterone receptor and are altered by it. On the one hand progestagenic activity decreases the estrogen receptor concentration in some tissues, it also mediates estrogenic action in other tissues5. So while estrogenic side-effects are fairly uncommon with nandrolone use alone, they can indeed occur and the implications of nandrolone's activity as a progesterone indicate these potential side-effects aren't to be solved with an aromatase inhibitor alone (like Cytadren). As long as there is estrogen in the system (indicating a possible increase of the problem when stacked with another aromatizing compound) progesterone can agonize its effects. And since progesterone receptors are found in breast tissue and have been linked to the formation of milk ducts, progestagenic activity may aggravate possibly gynocomastia. So while such problems are rare, when they occur they aren't easily treated.

It makes sense then that those particularly prone to the effects and side-effects of estrogen would take extra precaution. Blocking aromatase, considering the previous paragraph, would be a poor choice, but competitively inhibiting the estrogen receptor itself with clomiphene citrate (Clomid) or tamoxifen citrate (Nolvadex) might bring some relief since a large portion of progestagenic action is nullified...if it is kept from being activated by the estrogen receptor. It is generally assumed that 1 mg of either every day for every 20 mg of nandrolone injected weekly is sufficient. Slightly higher doses, or the use of an aromatase inhibitor like cytadren can be stacked if nandrolone is used in conjunction with another aromatizing steroid. It has also been noted that the steroid stanozolol (Winstrol) may provide relief as it too binds to the progesterone receptor but remains unaltered by it".

Kilder-
3 Hochberg RB, Hoyte RM, Rosner W., E-17 alpha-(2-[125I]iodovinyl)-19-nortestosterone: the synthesis of a gamma-emitting ligand for the progesterone receptor., Endocrinology 1985 Dec;117(6):2550-2

4 Traish AM, Williams DF, Wotiz HH., Binding of (3H)7 alpha,17 alpha-dimethyl-19-nortestosterone (mibolerone) to progesterone receptors: comparison with binding of (3H)R5020 and (3H)ORG2058., Steroids 1986 Feb-Mar;47(2-3):157-73

5 Reel JR, Humphrey RR, Shih YH, Windsor BL, Sakowski R, Creger PL, Edgren RA., Competitive progesterone antagonists: receptor binding and biologic activity of testosterone and 19-nortestosterone derivatives., Fertil Steril 1979 May;31(5):552-61
_________________

[BajanBastard]

First of the issue is NOT progesterone but AAS with progestinic properties while would be the nandrolone family, trenbolone, trestolone, metribolone, nandrolone, meribolone and others. Nolva has been shown to increase PgR so commonsense would tell you the more PgRs the higher the chance of getting gyno. Progestins and estrogens are interdependent, yes, but even when using an A.I there is still estrogen present.

Next time please read and understand the question at hand.


P.S The use of Letro will cover all bases regarding the PgR by reducing concentrations of the PgR and estrogen receptors and lowering estrogen levels.

[ivrig]

excuse me massa!

[BajanBastard]

excuse me massa!

[vitor]

One thing is for sure; Trenbolone will have to be stacked with compounds that aromatise, for progesterone-gyno to be possible. If Trenbolone is used as a stand-alone, or stacked with non-aromatise compounds, no estrogen will be present, to interact with Trens metabolitis, and aggrivate prog-gyno.

If there isnt any estrogen present, one could simply inject pure progesterone, without having gyno-problems.

[BajanBastard]

One thing is for sure; Trenbolone will have to be stacked with compounds that aromatise, for progesterone-gyno to be possible. If Trenbolone is used as a stand-alone, or stacked with non-aromatise compounds, no estrogen will be present, to interact with Trens metabolitis, and aggrivate prog-gyno.

If there isnt any estrogen present, one could simply inject pure progesterone, without having gyno-problems.

Did someone forget the endogenous estrogen present in the male body? Yeah, by making this comment i think they did.

[Dave321]

this thread is fun.

[Rocky IV]

this thread is fun.

your name is making me hungry lol

[ivrig]

yeah you got me

[vitor]

Did someone forget the endogenous estrogen present in the male body? Yeah, by making this comment i think they did.

When natty-testosterone production is shut down, so will the endogenous estrogen production be. Or atleast, there wont be enough estrogen to cause any problems.

[BajanBastard]

When natty-testosterone production is shut down, so will the endogenous estrogen production be. Or atleast, there wont be enough estrogen to cause any problems.

You have a point, but aromatization(sp) of testosterone is not the only source of estrogen in the male body.

[twitchfast]

You're looking at it the wrong way. Tren and deca does not aromatize into prog but act on the prog receptor. Deca binds at the rate of 20% and tren is 60% so using letro will give the deca/tren less prog receptors to bind too.

I'v done alot of reasearch about this and as far as I know, the only way to stop prolactin/progestrone induced gyno is by taking an anti-prolatin such as Cabaser or bromo, but bromo has some serious side effects. Cabaser is the best choice from what i'v read. Novldex, clomid, Letro or any anti estrogen WILL NOT HELP. this is prolactin gyno, not estrogen gyno. deca and tren are said to induce this prolactin gyno. i'v used both on their own and i'm still not sure if the deca gave me some gyno or not....i think its just puffiness from water.......i never had any itching or lumps...and i dont think its tissue.....anyways i tell people that i think i have some gyno, but they tell me i'm crazy and imagining things......

[Swifto]

Nice info Big kig...As always.

I'm still smarter than you though...

[BajanBastard]

I'v done alot of reasearch about this and as far as I know, the only way to stop prolactin/progestrone induced gyno is by taking an anti-prolatin such as Cabaser or bromo, but bromo has some serious side effects. Cabaser is the best choice from what i'v read. Novldex, clomid, Letro or any anti estrogen WILL NOT HELP. this is prolactin gyno, not estrogen gyno. deca and tren are said to induce this prolactin gyno. i'v used both on their own and i'm still not sure if the deca gave me some gyno or not....i think its just puffiness from water.......i never had any itching or lumps...and i dont think its tissue.....anyways i tell people that i think i have some gyno, but they tell me i'm crazy and imagining things......

Ok you have a valid point but it's flawed in one way. Progesterone and Prolactin are totally different hormones.
Prolactin stimulates the mammary glands to produce milk (duh!) and it elevated during nandrolone family use because nandrolone lowers TSH production thus lowering T3 resulting in raised prolactin levels.

As i said 1000 times before: Letrozole has anti-progestinic (not prolactin) properties. (Just re-read my post above.)

Prolactin can be controlled with carbogoline but it's very expensive so supplementing with a small dose of T3 on tren is the best option.

Personally i wouldn't add B6 to my cycles.

[aaronswt84]

letro and b-6 worked for me, but id listen to Big K

[Duriel2526]

I need help guys I been using letro for 2 weeks now. The soreness went away but I still have a little lump. Should I give it more time or try using something else?

[monstermasss]

caber is expensive? your not looking in the right place brotha!!! ps go w/ 250mcg e3-4dys and no tits!!!!

[twitchfast]

First of the issue is NOT progesterone but AAS with progestinic properties while would be the nandrolone family, trenbolone, trestolone, metribolone, nandrolone, meribolone and others. Nolva has been shown to increase PgR so commonsense would tell you the more PgRs the higher the chance of getting gyno. Progestins and estrogens are interdependent, yes, but even when using an A.I there is still estrogen present.

Next time please read and understand the question at hand.


P.S The use of Letro will cover all bases regarding the PgR by reducing concentrations of the PgR and estrogen receptors and lowering estrogen levels.

what are the dosages and stacking of Letro when on Tren byitself and what is the dosage for PCT?

[BajanBastard]

The standard .5mg ED, if you keep estrogen levels low no need to worry about fina gyno.