PLEASE HELP....My PCT is making me Depressed BIG tIme

[BEER WHORE]

Man I am on clomid 100 mgs a day and some letro 1.25 a for mild gyno... but man I am so depressed i feel like shit I cant get out of bed...please any help

[hosam4ever]

its the clomid for sure try 2 take 50 instead of 100

[BajanBastard]

Forget the clomid and use nolva and that letro dose is to high for PCT, try 1mg E3D.

[BEER WHORE]

cool thanks guys

[BEER WHORE]

the way I feel now man I might go natty in the future.

[NoFaith068]

The PCT blues...I just went through it with Clomid. I was nearly in tears for no reason sometimes. Have lowered it down to 50mg after a week and a half and feel fantastic - test levels kicking back in. You won't be depressed for long

[joshr]

yes yes felt the same way on clomid switch to nolva

[BEER WHORE]

cool thank you guys I have felt like this since my dog die or my 1st..(but not last) love left me....lol....but 4 real cheers guys for the kind words and help

[vestax]

yea bro drop the clomid jump on nolva + exemestane

[BEER WHORE]

yea bro drop the clomid jump on nolva + exemestane

I never herd of the last one I will do a search thank you

[C_Bino]

I never herd of the last one I will do a search thank you

Its aromasin .

[SwoleCat]

Mind over matter!

~SC~

[C_Bino]

Mind over matter!

~SC~

Very true. I was gonna say something similar but had already picked on two of this guys threads today alone so felt bad. But honestly the only reason you will get depressed is that you let yourself or you are already an emotionally unstable person imo. A lot of people get depressed when they come off cuz they lose strength or just dont feel as good anymore, this is what makes people either get addicted and stay on roids year round or go into depression and stop working out. Just stop thinking about being depressed and you wont be.

[BEER WHORE]

thanks guys

[SwoleCat]

It's hard but keep your head up, you'll be fine.

~SC~

[BEER WHORE]

yeah man i feel alot better today losing some size but thats life. cheers thanks for kinda words.

[SwoleCat]

Try not to stress because stress is very catabolic.

(seriously)

~SC~

[C_Bino]

Exactly, you gotta realize especially when bulking and then cutting etc that sometimes this is a two steps forward one step back type routine. But you are always further ahead in the end than when you started, so its all good and worth it.

[BEER WHORE]

thanks guys..yeah stress gets cortisol up

[jcstanto]

What do you guys think would be better at the end of each cycle? Clomid/ or Nolva? Im getting ready to start my first cycle, but dam* that clomid sounds unforgiving. What does clomid do exactly that would cause these emotional problems?

[RA]

Clomid and nolva (IMO) is the better than nolva alone.

[Xprime]

I just want to help let me know if i am wrong, Cytadren , thyroid hormones and clenbuterol can help a lot during the pct...

Do you use one of this compound?

I give you what i have read on steroids .com homepage

Section: HOW TO COME OFF STEROIDS
http://steroid.com/offster.php

6.All this, however, helps only if the athlete is able to mostly block out the catabolic effect of the increased cortisone level. A compound which, because of its distinct anticatabolic effect, fulfills this requirement is the beta-2 sympathomimetic, Clenbuterol. Clenbuterol successfully blocks the cortisone receptors so that the athlete is usually able to maintain a large portion of the strength and muscle mass built up by the steroids. The intake of Clenbuterol begins directly at the end of the steroid therapy and continues over 8-10 weeks (see also Clenbuterol). Another compound of the group of sympaticomimetics which also has an anticatabolic effect (but less pronounced than Clenbuterol) is Ephedrine. Probably the most suitable drug in this situation is a preparation which in school medicine is used in the treatment of the Cushing's syndrome, a hyperfunction of the adrenal glands which causes the body to produce too much cortisone. Those who have read this book carefully will know which drug is meant: Cytadren. Since it reduces the cortisone level extremely well athletes usually take it directly after completion of a steroid treatment (see also Cytadren). Several athletes take thyroid hormones in this phase since they have an anabolic effect when taken in small dosages and for not excessively long intake intervals. Their effect can be clearly increased by the anticatabolic effect of Clenbuterol which explains why this combination is used during the phase of discontinuance. The use of growth hormone also makes sense since it has a strong anticatabolic/anabolic effect. You can forget Ornithin and Arginin which supposedly increase the realising of GH, because they are ineffective. Distance yourself from the thought that pharmaceutically improved muscle mass can be maintained with "natural methods."


I hope that helps.

[BEER WHORE]

thanks man

[ascendant]

Clomid and nolva (IMO) is the better than nolva alone.

nolva is a far more effective anti-e than clomid, and 20mg of nolva boosts natty levels up as much as 150mg of clomid, so nolva is obviously the better choice.

additionally, i have yet to see any evidence that nolva and clomid are synergistic together, so until i see something proving otherwise, taking clomid along with nolva will probably not do anything more than the nolva alone.

a great combo for at the end of a cycle in my opinion is nolva, hcg , clen , and possibly arimidex depending on the duration/amount done during the cycle. nolva does the anti-e and boosts natty, hcg boosts natty more effectively (and in more ways) than nolva so is great to add in because of it, clen keeps the metabolism up and minimizes muscle loss pct with it's anti-catabolic effects, and arimidex is a highly effective anti-e for if you were on a heavy or particularly long cycle.

[RA]

nolva is a far more effective anti-e than clomid, and 20mg of nolva boosts natty levels up as much as 150mg of clomid, so nolva is obviously the better choice.

additionally, i have yet to see any evidence that nolva and clomid are synergistic together, so until i see something proving otherwise, taking clomid along with nolva will probably not do anything more than the nolva alone.

a great combo for at the end of a cycle in my opinion is nolva, hcg, clen, and possibly arimidex depending on the duration/amount done during the cycle. nolva does the anti-e and boosts natty, hcg boosts natty more effectively (and in more ways) than nolva so is great to add in because of it, clen keeps the metabolism up and minimizes muscle loss pct with it's anti-catabolic effects, and arimidex is a highly effective anti-e for if you were on a heavy or particularly long cycle.

Well thanks for the sermon. Just try both ways, you will see what I mean.

[RA]

btw, newb, cut and paste knowledge isnt real knowledge.

[Lift05]

if you still have problems, definately try antidepressants. depression is usually caused by low serotonin levels in the brain, definately not mind over matter if it started out of nowhere. Temporarily going on anti depressents can help correct that and definately wouldn't hurt

[BEER WHORE]

thank you guys for all the help I am feeling better now...yeah LION said before so old timers never run AAS with out prozac or zoloft.

[BEER WHORE]

Exactly, you gotta realize especially when bulking and then cutting etc that sometimes this is a two steps forward one step back type routine. But you are always further ahead in the end than when you started, so its all good and worth it.

COOL way to look at it

[anaBROLIC]

i was thinking the same thing as sc was saying. you need to enter pct with the mentality that its going to be very good and successful. you gotta try to not let yourself get down. push yourself to keep the gains...!! i hope it works out for ya brother..

[ascendant]

btw, newb, cut and paste knowledge isnt real knowledge.

i hope this wasn't directed at me and there was simply something i missed here. i have NEVER "cut and paste" any info from anywhere. if you believe otherwise, please show me where i "cut" any of my info from?

as far as trying both, i have, and i noticed no difference over taking nolva alone and nolva/clomid together personally for pct. oftentimes, the difference lies purely within our psyche thinking we'll get more effective results. look at results gained from placebo's (aka sugar cubes) in tests and you'll see the evidence of that. not saying it unquestionably will not make a difference, but if it does, it doesn't seem a big enough one to spend the extra $ on clomid.

why get clomid when there are so many far more effective alternatives for both anti-e and natty boost???

[ascendant]

if you still have problems, definately try antidepressants. depression is usually caused by low serotonin levels in the brain, definately not mind over matter if it started out of nowhere. Temporarily going on anti depressents can help correct that and definately wouldn't hurt

first of all, depression is not, i repeat NOT, caused by low serotonin levels in the brain. they do not know exactly what causes depression and there is only theories as to what does. you'll also notice most the original theories as to the origins of depression were primarily derived from the effects of introducing todays anti-depressants into individuals and seeing the results. only more recent theories point towards the issues residing within our hypothalmus.

what you're thinking of in regards to serotonin issues is meds which work as SSRI's, which only help cover symptoms of depression. it does not "correct" anything, only masks it, which is extremely ill-advised in my opinion saying as it does not fix a problem, but just covers it up. if your "check engine" light comes on in your car, is your answer to simply unplug the "check engine" light? that's exactly what you're doing when taking anti-depressants for depression. they are for symptom relief only, NOT for a "cure".

they don't even know if SSRI's directly treat the resulting serotonin problem which is not the cause of depression but merely an effect. the serotonin issue is theoretically either not enough serotonin being produced, not enough receptor sites for serotonin, serotonin being taken back up too quickly, among a few other theories.

regardless, SSRI's do help depression symptoms in some individuals by helping the serotonin problem one way or another, but it does not help all, and the evidence that the true cause of depression is not known is the number of meds out there to treat it. if the exact origin of the cause was known, there would be one med out there to treat depression and that's all that would be needed. but instead, there is just a ton of meds to treat the effects of depression, hence why each person needs to see what works best for them.

taking meds cause you're feeling "blue" during pct is a horrible idea, and one i'm strongly against. many people have "withdrawl" symptoms from anti-depressants, some of the worst being auditory and visual hallucinations. it is not something to just pop for a while for some depression. it should only be used as a last-resort for severe cases of chronic depression or anxiety/panic disorders, and even then only with proper psychotherapy.

if the depression is caused by your pct or simply from coming off gear, regardless your body will correct itself in time. taking anti-depressants will only throw off your bodies stability and make that recovery time take that much longer. even worse, you could end up stuck on anti-depressant meds for life. as far as the depression "coming out of nowhere" like in your above quote, you just came off gear during pct, you're most likely losing some of your weight from the cycle, your test levels are dropping, and that's coming out of nowhere???

please try to give more informed advise in the future, as not only is your information incorrect, but potentially dangerous.

[RA]

i hope this wasn't directed at me and there was simply something i missed here. i have NEVER "cut and paste" any info from anywhere. if you believe otherwise, please show me where i "cut" any of my info from?

as far as trying both, i have, and i noticed no difference over taking nolva alone and nolva/clomid together personally for pct. oftentimes, the difference lies purely within our psyche thinking we'll get more effective results. look at results gained from placebo's (aka sugar cubes) in tests and you'll see the evidence of that. not saying it unquestionably will not make a difference, but if it does, it doesn't seem a big enough one to spend the extra $ on clomid.

why get clomid when there are so many far more effective alternatives for both anti-e and natty boost???

Possibly thats because you have only done "mild cycles" Many people will attest, despite hookers profile, that nolva/clomid is superior to nolva alone.

[ascendant]

Possibly thats because you have only done "mild cycles" Many people will attest, despite hookers profile, that nolva/clomid is superior to nolva alone.

well, i have done some fairly heavy cycles, but nothing over 1g of test/week. i'm also not succeptible to gyno (as of yet), and my nads don't shrink while on a cycle. that's not to say during my pct i'm not recovering like everyone else, but maybe considering the circumstances mine is less harsh, i simply don't notice the difference here. just trying to say i'm not saying you're wrong, but i know without question adding clomid to my nolva does not make a noticeable difference for me recovery wise or other.

however, the answer to nolva/clomid being superior (at least significantly) to nolva alone is very torn amongst members here as you'll find from other threads on the matter. if it works better for you, more power to ya. stick with what works.

as far as the nolva/clomid or nolva alone matter though, might be good for another thread to see what people have to say.

[IBdmfkr]

I've done both clomid by itself and clomid/nolva together and deff prefer doing them together.
Currently taking Proviron /Aromasin /Nolva and will never do clomid again btw..
3wks in and still gaining strength/holding gains.

Main thing I've noticed is that a lot of ppl don't train with the same intensity when they come off and their diet seems to slip when they aren't seeing unreal gains like when they were on cycle. I'd pay close attention to those two things and see where you stand. Best of luck.

[Lift05]

quote: if your "check engine" light comes on in your car, is your answer to simply unplug the "check engine" light? that's exactly what you're doing when taking anti-depressants for depression.

anti-depressants are the equivalent of taking your car to the shop to get fixed.
there is no crash coming off antidepressants like steroids . antidepressants aren't the actual neurotransmitters, they make your brain naturally increase their supply and can still have the effect after you come off. Technically could be compared to natural test increasers (adex)
I have extensively studied this subject (not online, in real life) but I guess my information is "incorrect"
Ascendant, dont make another post on this subject retard

[stupidhippo]

my pharmacology book states that clomiphene differs in its ability inhibit the negative feedback of estogens. it doesnt cover it very extensively and I cannot say anything for sure BUT it does hint to me that clomid might be better in restoring HPTA function. I have read the studies on nolva compared to clomid so I really dotn know where to stand in this matter.

[[N1ZMO]]

I've done both clomid by itself and clomid/nolva together and deff prefer doing them together.
Currently taking Proviron /Aromasin /Nolva and will never do clomid again btw..
3wks in and still gaining strength/holding gains.

Main thing I've noticed is that a lot of ppl don't train with the same intensity when they come off and their diet seems to slip when they aren't seeing unreal gains like when they were on cycle. I'd pay close attention to those two things and see where you stand. Best of luck.

Bro isnt Proviron/ Mesterolone a 17-alpha-alkylated steroid ?
If you are taking this through pct wont your HPTA not return to its full pre cycle state.E.g you wont make full recovery ?

[RA]

Bro isnt Proviron / Mesterolone a 17-alpha-alkylated steroid ?
If you are taking this through pct wont your HPTA not return to its full pre cycle state.E.g you wont make full recovery ?

No it has only positive effects on hpta. No problem using it in pct.

[ascendant]

there is no crash coming off antidepressants like steroids . antidepressants aren't the actual neurotransmitters, they make your brain naturally increase their supply and can still have the effect after you come off. Technically could be compared to natural test increasers (adex)
I have extensively studied this subject (not online, in real life) but I guess my information is "incorrect"
Ascendant, dont make another post on this subject retard

k first, learn how to post and quote correctly. second, you make absolutely no sense in your above post. antidepressants make your brain naturally increase it's supply of what? neurotransmitters? you have no idea what's going on?!

SSRI's (the most common anti-depressants) are selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors. it does not increase the production of anything, it merely inhibits the reuptake of the serotonin as to give it longer to react. any website on depression and it's treatments will back up all my statements, however, I'd be very interested in you pointing out one website that backs up yours???

i give a long, in-depth explanation as to depression, it's treaments, etc, and you come back on here and call me a "retard" and you think you're the one making more well-based judgements here?

and i never said there was a "crash" when coming off anti-depressants, but there is certainly withdrawl symptoms for most. also, how could you possibly relate anti-depressants to natty boosters? again, where are you at with all this?

as for where you gained your info from in "real life", it seems to contradict all that written on paper by the scientists studying these chemicals for years. if you can back up any of your statements, show a credible medical website doing so, and save the "retard" comments for elementary school. if you can't handle your disagreements like a big boy, please don't waste any more of my time. i attempted to help people with my comments, and never once flamed you in any way. yours last one was counterproductive and completely uncalled for.