Please critque quickly....

[dazbo]

2nd/3rd proper cycle, last one a year ago....age 24yrs, 5'10", 185lbs, training 7yrs, see myself as highly knowledgable and experienced in the area - as do others (Not meaning to sound big headed there!)

Wanna gain some size but also burn fat, (Yeah I know its going to be hard!) while keeping cycle simple

Here it is-

Nolva as and when needed during cycle, and 10mg EOD.
Wks 1 - Test Enth 1500mg
wks 2-10 - Test Enth 750mg EW
Wks 13-16 - Usual Clomid/Nolva/Trib/Redkat Protocol

I am also including a fat burner of T3/Clen at the beginning of the cycle. It is at the start because I want to nurn the fat as soon as possible due to summer being around the corner. As follows -

12 44444444444444444 3333333222222211111(.5)(.5)(5)(.5)


Above is cycle dose for T3 for 42day cycle (6weeks) using 5%/40%/55% ramp up/max dose/ramp down. It is worked with 20mcg tabs so day 1, 1tab, day 2 2tabs, day 3-17, 4tabs etc etc.

Clen dosages - 1234 days5-42=5tabs daily. Week 4 use Benadryl (Citrizine once daily tabs) daily.

BTW I currently weigh less and have less muscle now, than before I did any AAS last yr - due to problems and such! Still just as strong though.

Thanks

[1buffsob]

2nd/3rd proper cycle, last one a year ago....age 24yrs, 5'10", 185lbs, training 7yrs, see myself as highly knowledgable and experienced in the area - as do others (Not meaning to sound big headed there!)

Wanna gain some size but also burn fat, (Yeah I know its going to be hard!) while keeping cycle simple

Here it is-

Nolva as and when needed during cycle, and 10mg EOD.
Wks 1 - Test Enth 1500mg
wks 2-10 - Test Enth 750mg EW
Wks 13-16 - Usual Clomid/Nolva/Trib/Redkat Protocol

I am also including a fat burner of T3/Clen at the beginning of the cycle. It is at the start because I want to nurn the fat as soon as possible due to summer being around the corner. As follows -

12 44444444444444444 3333333222222211111(.5)(.5)(5)(.5)


Above is cycle dose for T3 for 42day cycle (6weeks) using 5%/40%/55% ramp up/max dose/ramp down. It is worked with 20mcg tabs so day 1, 1tab, day 2 2tabs, day 3-17, 4tabs etc etc.

Clen dosages - 1234 days5-42=5tabs daily. Week 4 use Benadryl (Citrizine once daily tabs) daily.

BTW I currently weigh less and have less muscle now, than before I did any AAS last yr - due to problems and such! Still just as strong though.

Thanks

That part scares me. As far as your cycle, not much too it. Very simple. I think your goals will depend entirely on your diet. Good luck.

1buffsob

[IBdmfkr]

Agreed.

Not sure what you want us to say about the cycle? I'd leave out the T3/clen as I don't think they are needed. If you added Tren, then I'd consider using a small amount of T3.

[dazbo]

scares u how ?

I folowed a mick hart book and did a poor 250mg sus/200mg deca/Dbol cycle. Gained on it, but most prob was water, then came off it, and due to poor PCT cycle he gave, I slowly lost it all and had real difficulty in getting my test and libido back up. Prob due to the deca being so close to the test amount. It was also single sus inj per week which wont have helped!

The second cycle I did at the start of summer was test prop/deca/var which worked well but was just a cutting cycle with 500mg prop, 50mg max VAR I think, not even sure if I actually used deca or not in it?!! I gained about half a stone, while losing a LITTLE fat. Did good PCT and recovered quick. But, had to have moths off the gym due to prolonged shoulder probs that Id been having for 2yrs gone this xmas. It was causing pain in my left shoulder, bicep and neck and the only thing to fix it was to cut out training altogether (I tried all other options!) and ended up having around 2months off. then in the meantime, had to start slow getting back into it, since then, ive not been keeping to my higher calorie diet and not being as strict due to many things and just gradually started to lose more weight!

BTW ive still gopt the shoulder prob but onyl half as bad as before - turns out it my scapular alignment thats the problem, causing slight seperation of the AC joint if you really wanna know! lol

thanks

[dazbo]

why would I want to leave out clen and T3?!! Its a cycle to strip away fat, I want to get to around 8% from 11-12%. Why would the T3 and Clen NOT help me reach that goal in this cycle?? I would actually just do T3/Clen but I dont want to lose muscle so I decided to add the Test. Then I thought, if Im gonna do that, I might as well make it worth while and add more test to make a proper cycle!

[dazbo]

and the main part I want you to comment on is the T3/Clen part. Are the dosages high enough ?? 100mcg clen and 100mcg T3 at most ??

[1buffsob]

I'm sure you can understand why it would scare me not knowing everything about your injury. All I heard was 'I cycled, came off, and am now smaller than when I started'. I personally would hold off on the cycle until your closer to recovery, just to maximize gains while on. But that's me. As far as your cycle, I too don't think the clen/t3 is needed. A good cardio and diet with the combination of a high dose of test will provide all the fat loss you want.

1buffsob

Oh, and you stated you wanted to build muscle while losing fat. I felt you were leaning more towards the building muscle, while cutting a couple pounds beginning of your cycle. If this is just a cutting cycle, than you could probably do it just as effective with less test.

[IBdmfkr]

I've seen very few ppl actually be successful at building a significant amount of muscle on a calorie restricted diet. If you plan on losing fat, that's what you will have to do. I'd pick one of the other and go with it. If you want to lean down then change your diet appropriately, I'm personally not a big fan of Clen especially because of the sides vs benefits. Best of luck.

[dazbo]

thanks so far.

So would you say it would be a better option for me to say, start my cycle and make it a bulker to get as much extra muscle as poss. Then in wks 7-12 (Last 6wks up to PCT) so my T3/Clen while really cutting calories and upping cardio ??

[novicenovicen]

what about tren?

[dazbo]

was just to keep the cycle simple, and cheap. Plus, the major thing is, there are so many people that dont like tren - and I dont like the sounds of the sides from it. Dont get me wrong, it might be good, but I KNOW TEST is good, and I used my money to increase the amount of that rather than getting very little for my money by buying tren.

[dazbo]

Right guys after further researchin my doses on the T3 and clen, I came across the original post I got my ramping up and down cycle from. Then I noticed it was from 2001!!!!!

http://67.18.108.244//showthread.php?t=766

No doubt all those theories have gone down the drain so now I need to know the BEST CURRENT way please????

you see, people always complain about not using the search feature, but look what happens when you do - you end up going through outdated stuff for hours!!

[Swifto]

Right guys after further researchin my doses on the T3 and clen, I came across the original post I got my ramping up and down cycle from. Then I noticed it was from 2001!!!!!

http://67.18.108.244//showthread.php?t=766

No doubt all those theories have gone down the drain so now I need to know the BEST CURRENT way please????

you see, people always complain about not using the search feature, but look what happens when you do - you end up going through outdated stuff for hours!!

Is 750mg/wk of Testosterone needed? I think I remember you saying you dont respond well off of 350-500mg/wk of Testosterone before....? Am I right?

[dazbo]

yup that very true. In my past couple I didnt notice much really if you take away the bit of water weight. Strength didnt change etc either. so yeah I think it is needed, bearing in mind I previously had 550mg test prop PLUS 200mg deca AND VAR in my last cycle.

Im really lost with the best T3/clen way to do if you could help please??

thanks

[dazbo]

Oh yeah, I am assuming I am OK to add Dbol to the start as a kickstart at 40mg for 4wks as I just remembered I had plenty left!???

Thanks again

P.S. Still waiting to here the best T3/clen regimen ??

[IBdmfkr]

Are you trying to cut for a competition or just for a better look? If so like I said before, do it naturally with cardio/diet.. No need to put your body through the sides of Clen/T3 combined considering if you diet isn't on point you will gain the weight back after discontinuing them.

[marcus300]

Are you trying to cut for a competition or just for a better look? If so like I said before, do it naturally with cardio/diet.. No need to put your body through the sides of Clen/T3 combined considering if you diet isn't on point you will gain the weight back after discontinuing them.

agree,

I think you need to decide what exactly your wanting to achieve, i would leave out the t3 and clen and feed the gear your going to take to build muscle tissue then after pct cut up, also id take clen in pct helps a great deal

[dazbo]

Look I appreciate your comments but, Ive been training - naturally for 6yrs, my life is based around the knowledge and experience of training - wot works, wot doesnt etc. I have tried many many supps, techniques, diets. Look at my pic, I have others in past forums, I got to that WITHOUT ANY AAS. The problem is, I KNOW my body is at its genetic limits regarding muscle size and fat %. People already thought Id been using steroids - everyone always asked/stated, before I did my first cycle last year. I have an excellent knowledge on diet and training - diet mainly from this site over the years but also through books. If you want an example of my cutting or bulking diets then ask and you will see. They are all my own design. My body is happy at the level it is. If I do AAS, or even just eat to bulk and train/supp properly, afterwards my body eventually goes back to what it was at. I have done many bulking folllowed by cutting periods. I bulk up, then when I do the fat burning even when doing gentle but regular cardio on a calorie deficit, with low carbs, high protein and various other options, my body goes back to where it is happy - 5'10", 185ish lbs and 11-12%BF!

Its called genetics. Now i kow my genetics, an I knowthat i cantget any furher un-aided. I also know, the main point, that if I bulk up using just AAS, then afterwards I cut naturally - I will end up back at the above stats. Like I have done many times.

Now, I dont mean to sound ungrateful to your advice, but please understand I am not one of those who likes the easy way out. I give advice to others who wanna start using supps and/or AAS and tell them to try for many more yrs to get there naturally. I just want you to know I am not one of them.

Plus, from my research AAS DO help to burn fat - esp the likes of VAR. They also help you KEEP muscle, while doing a lot of heavy cardio. And, it is possible to gain muscle on a calofic deficit. So that is why I am wanting to try it this way.

AAS bulk for 7wks, followed by AAS/T3/Clen cutter for 6wks (2wks in the AAS cool-off period B4 PCT), then 4wks PCT continuing gentle cardio.

Thanks

darren

[marcus300]

people have only given their opinion on your cycle which you posted, if you have all the answers dont post you cycle, best of luck.

[scerpico22]

for my 2 cents, to bulk and cut at the same time is not feasable - decide which is your goal.

build the house brick by brick

with that - below is an up to date sticky on the site...

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=137526

[dazbo]

people have only given their opinion on your cycle which you posted, if you have all the answers dont post you cycle, best of luck.

Firstly, your post comes over very offensive. There was no need.

The thing is, like I said above, I appreciate (So as not to be offensive) their advice but......well Ive already stated the bt part.

now I put my cycle up to get advice on the cycle itself and the BEST way to use Clen/T3. In no way did I ask anyones' oppinion on whether they thought I should do it in a bulk then a cutter or if should choose one or other. So, I explained exactly why I didnt need that help, instead f just turning around and saying "Hey what do you know, Im doing it my way and thats that!".

Read the questions in my posts - they are about how to use th clen/T3 and whether my cycle looked OK, and whether I should use T3/clen at he beginning or end. Up until after your post marcus, NOONE has actually answered those questions. So, obviouly I dont know "..all the answers.." and I do have a need to post.

[dazbo]

Thanks for that link BTW scerp - only thing is, will that one not be outdated as it is over a yr and a half old ??

thanks

[dazbo]

Also Scerp, I am not technically bulking and cutting at the same time am I. I would be doing a 7 week bulk using the test and then a 6 week cut, its just that they cross over slightly and they dont go on after PCT

[Swifto]

Also Scerp, I am not technically bulking and cutting at the same time am I. I would be doing a 7 week bulk using the test and then a 6 week cut, its just that they cross over slightly and they dont go on after PCT

Your trying to bulk/cut in the same cycle. From what I've seen documented and from my research this isnt an effective combination and efficient way of achieving ones goals. Conduct a bulking cycle, stop. Time on + PCT = time off. Then cut. Not both in the time frame you've stated.

[dazbo]

Well lets say youre right with that, the problem there would be I wouldnt be cutting for another 16wks that way - and thats just starting to cut. Another 6-10wks of cutting would take me ahlf a yr from now - meaning theres summertime gone! Just cant work out that way.

But really, what exactly is the difference? We know AAS is anabolic. All the stuff we do to cut is pretty catabolic (Diet and training style) so it just seems to make sense to let one counter the other. If I was doing it for competition (Which Im not), then the half ayr it takes would be out of the question, so dont they combine by using AAS whilst cutting also ?

Please also bear in mind that, when it is all over, PCT included, I will continue to cut using natural methods and possibly ECA/Y stack. Thats the idea anyway.

[dazbo]

So heres the questions anyway -

1) Should I taper the T3 on ? If so, is 50/50/75/75/75/100/100/100...... OK?
2) Will 100mcg of T3 be enough for me ?
3) Should I taper the T3 off? Iver read varying issues on this.
4) If I decided to make this whole cycle a cutter, then I beleive that taking 750mg as oppose to 250mg EW can only help to gain a little extra muscle (Bonus). If this is wrong - then how is that so ?

thanks

[Swifto]

Well lets say youre right with that, the problem there would be I wouldnt be cutting for another 16wks that way - and thats just starting to cut. Another 6-10wks of cutting would take me ahlf a yr from now - meaning theres summertime gone! Just cant work out that way.

But really, what exactly is the difference? We know AAS is anabolic. All the stuff we do to cut is pretty catabolic (Diet and training style) so it just seems to make sense to let one counter the other. If I was doing it for competition (Which Im not), then the half ayr it takes would be out of the question, so dont they combine by using AAS whilst cutting also ?

Please also bear in mind that, when it is all over, PCT included, I will continue to cut using natural methods and possibly ECA/Y stack. Thats the idea anyway.

The bolds show your impatience. Rome WASNT built over night.

Italics. I think, is the best route for you. Bulk, wait. Cut naturally, wait. Cut using AS.

[Swifto]

So heres the questions anyway -

1) Should I taper the T3 on ? If so, is 50/50/75/75/75/100/100/100...... OK?
2) Will 100mcg of T3 be enough for me ?
3) Should I taper the T3 off? Iver read varying issues on this.
4) If I decided to make this whole cycle a cutter, then I beleive that taking 750mg as oppose to 250mg EW can only help to gain a little extra muscle (Bonus). If this is wrong - then how is that so ?

thanks

More Test = more muscle gains (to a point). This is demonstarted in human studies.

[dazbo]

Its not that Im impatient. Its just, that summer is here soon, and I want to looked ripped as possible.

I have seen the studies showing that more test = more muscle. Which is my point. Assuming this is true, if I choose to make this a cutter, then even on a calorie deficit, more test = more muscle and hence, it would be a good idea for me to choose that way. I would then be cutting, while gaining some muscle. Which, if you look to my first posts, that is what I wanted.

Basically, if I do a cutter, can I expect to gain even just 3-5lbs of muscle from this cycle (Kept) while also getting my BF down to 8% ?

[1buffsob]

That would depend more on the diet than the amount of test. Your research is correct. The more test typically leads to more muscle. However, I don't believe I've ever seen that proven using a diet with a pretty considerable calorie deficit. All the studies I've seen that prove: more test = more muscle, have all been with at least maintainence kcals. However, 3-5lbs muscle gain durring a cutter have not been unheard of. In the 5 weeks of my cutter I dropped over 1/2 inch off the waist, gained 1/4 on the arms, and added roughly 8lbs. Diet is everything.

Best of luck to you

1buffsob

[dazbo]

Thanks 1buff. I think I am more heading towards the cutter now then.

You see at the start, all I wanted was a few muscle lbs gained, while dropping to 8% BF. But people were saying I cant cut while building muscle. So, then when people were sayin choose cut or bulk, I thought hey, Ill bulk - then Ill cut at the end of the bulk.

So guys, I am now going to use it as a cutter with around 500cals below maintenance - so around 3500cals, 300g prot, 300g carbs, 120g fat.

So, back to the questions -

1) Should I taper the T3 on ? If so, is 50/50/75/75/75/100/100/100...... OK?
2) Will 100mcg of T3 be enough for me ?
3) Should I taper the T3 off? Iver read varying issues on this.

thanks

[1buffsob]

Whoa, Bro, how'd you come up with your maintainence at 4000kcals? I'm 30lbs bigger and my maintainence is like 3100kcals.

1buffsob

[dazbo]

Whered u get 3100 from like ?? I use the harris benedict formula. I also take into account my level of activity. Bearing in mind I train 4/5times a week heavy training, I play football up to twice per week, have a fairly active job as I work on an industrial plant and it involves walking and plenty of stairs. Also, bear in mind I will be doing a fair bit of cardio on this - poss twice a day for 45mins moderate intensity.

[1buffsob]

Because to maintain my current weight (215-220) all I need is 3000-3200kcals. I lift 4-5 times a week, cardio 3-4 times a week (7-9 when cutting), and have a pretty active lifestyle. I don't trust the Harris Benedict formula, it always is high IMO.

1buffsob

[dazbo]

I realise wot maintenance cals are - to maintain current weight - but wot formula did u use ?

I have to eat a lot to gain as well so I never really thought it was too high. Like I need to have 4500kcals to gain.

I suppose I could drop my carbs a bit so that I get down to 3000kcals??

That way seeming as though its a cutter, it cant do any harm other than help can it.

[dazbo]

Just realised, the last time I cut, I went down to 2500 and even a lil less!!

Totally forgot about that so I guess Ill do the same this time!

Right it will be - 2500kcals, 300g prot, 150g carbs, 120g fats.

[dazbo]

I must have been getting all muddled up in my unmbers cos also just realised 3500cals was for my lean bulking! Been on here too long I think!

[dazbo]

heres the last diet example I made. Done that way so that it is not boring and is something I can stick to.

[dazbo]

would have used that diet if I was doing a bulker on this cycle

[dazbo]

I have my food plan on disk somewhere but not on the comp at this moment in time