Long winded noob question.

[jaded996]

First off this site is great, there is a lot of information here. I do have a specific question to ask though.

A little background first:
I am 6 foot and about 255lbs. About 9 months ago I was 285 and I started a weight training program. I did not do any cardio for that time and was not really good about my diet. I still lost 30lbs but I think I still need to loose another 50.

I am now doing 45 minutes of cardio 5 days a week and weight training 2 days. The off days are the days right after my workouts. I am doing a circuit training workout thing. Its like 5-7 different exercises right after each other. It is also supervised by a personal trainer (I traded graphics work and photography)

My diet consists of about 1500 calories in small meals.

Ok here is my question. I have a friend who has access to some gear and thinks it would work for me. I would like to loose the remaining weight with as little muscle loss as possible. I also would like to get bigger muscle wise but know from reading you really cant do both at the same time.

Am I still too fat to be thinking about gear? If not what do you think would work?

Thanks!

[peump]

lose the weight first

[Streaker]

1st of all great work with the 30 lbs. Keep going natural for now. Gear is not the answer to your goals. Keep up with the diet. At your size 1500 sounds a little extreme. I would recommend going to the diet forum and posting there if you have not already so the pros can check it out for you.
Keep up the hard work.

[MAXIMA5]

I agree. Keep shedding the weight until you are at least below 20% body fat, preferable below 15%. Then train until you cannot get any stronger naturally, then think about incorporating gear. You should not consider it for at least a year, maybe longer. If you try to use it while you're on a cardio/circuit-based training program, you'll be very dissapointed, especially on a 1500 cal diet.

[mwolffey]

keep researching...good job on the weight loss...but get diet and training down fist then AAS, not the other way around....steroids are not an easy way out

[Liftnainez]

great job with the weight loss bro.. like stated above loose more weight before you start AAS

[jaded996]

Thanks a lot for all the help. I was thinking the same things that you were telling me. I will post in the diet forum to try and see what the appropriate caloric intake would be.

[SMAN12b]

GREAT WORK BRO, on losing that much so far!!! I agree with MAXIMA on this one. AAS will NOT lose the fat for you!!! It is great the you are doing cardio, BUT you state you only lift weights 2 days a week. That is no where near enough to even consider using AAS
Muscle will burn more fat than anything, so you should concentrate on building MORE muscle naturally and keep the diet going BUT I think for your size, the calories are a little too low.

How old are you?

[MAXIMA5]

smart man - actually taking advice and focusing on diet first

[jaded996]

Im 29, and try to be as smart and informed as possible.

I have a pretty "stocky" build. Nobody believes me when I tell them my weight.

I am doing this thing called "super slow". They only do the work out twice a week. The workout consists of:

The whole thing hinges on prety heavy weights and doing everything as close to 10 seconds on the up and down as possible. You do this until complete failure (usually 1:45 - 2:30). It really is tough. You don't rest between exercises.

This is how it usually goes:

-Seated leg curls
-Seated leg press
-Lat pull downs, with wrists facing in.
-Chest press
-Seated Row
-Shoulder Press

Once evey two weeks we skip the shoulder press and do a curl machine and a lower back machine.

It seems to be working, I have consistenly gone up in weights and times. You leave winded and feeling like jelly.

I hate to switch it up since it's free (since i trade graphic work and photography).

[SMAN12b]

You do WHAT until complete failure? each set? or the whole routine?
Answer this and then I will tell you the flaws in this theory

[cfiler]

I agree, best to focus on diet and training ruitine first, then work aas into it.

[jaded996]

You do each exercise continous, no stopping until failure. Once you are done with that exercise you go to the next.

[jaded996]

Here is the info on the program:

http://www.superslowzone.com/Page.as...BL_ExpandID=26

[SMAN12b]

You do each exercise continous, no stopping until failure. Once you are done with that exercise you go to the next.

WOW, Exactly what I thought...OK sit down, this is gonna take a little while to explain.


First off, there is nothing wrong with that type of routine IF and ONLY if you dont' want to get bigger muscles. It is great for cardio endurance, BUT you stated that you want BIGGER muscles SO here is why that routine will nont do what you are looking for.

First: Muscles have "fibers" and in weight training you use what is called the "Fast Twitch Fibers" Got that? There are two kinds of Fast Twitch fibers they are the "2A" and the "2B" muscle fibers. Still with me?

NOW, the "2A" fibers only have the potential of growing 25% more than what they are.
The "2B" fibers can actuallygrow 100% of what they are

SO THE GOAL IS TO TRAIN TO HIT THE 2B MUSCLE FIBERS

All weight training uses the 2A fibers first, but they have limited growth potential. 2B's on the otherhand, are more stubborn, they only come into play in response to tension. When tension on the muscle is GREATEST, THEN and ONLY then do the 2B's kick in!!

Still with me?

Working 2A's over and over like in the routine you are currently doing, will never recruit the 2B's
BUT if you hit the 2B's you will always use the 2A's first. Got that?

SO, the question you are thinking right now shoudl be.....SMAN, just how do I recruit the 2B's so I can get the maximum size to my muscles? right?

Funny you should ask. The answer is:

HEAVY WEIGHTS IN THE 6-12 REP RANGE (WITH GOOD FORM)

Understanding rep ranges:
Less than 6 reps = Increase in strength but not muscle size
6-12 reps = increase in strength AND size
More than 12 = improves muscle endurance BUT not size!!

Too many reps produces too much Lactic Acid which breaks down Glycogen (muscle fuel) and the ACID build-up prevents total muscle contraction!!!

Did I lose you yet?? Good, lets move on to why no rest is a bad idea too.

Shorter rest periods KILL the intensity of the workout!!!
Rest should be long enough between sets to reduce the heart rate to almost normal. You DO NOT want the heart and lungs to get tired and fail before you muscle fibers do!!!

NOW, the disclaimer here is that this all depends on your goals!! If you want to be an endurance athlete than parts of the routine you are doing would be fine. But then you are working more Aerobically, than Anerobically which will mostly work the 2A muscle fibers along with the Slow twitch muscle fibers.

From what you are stating that is just the OPPOSITE of what you want to do!


I hope this helps!!!!

[Liftnainez]

WOW, Exactly what I thought...OK sit down, this is gonna take a little while to explain.


First off, there is nothing wrong with that type of routine IF and ONLY if you dont' want to get bigger muscles. It is great for cardio endurance, BUT you stated that you want BIGGER muscles SO here is why that routine will nont do what you are looking for.

First: Muscles have "fibers" and in weight training you use what is called the "Fast Twitch Fibers" Got that? There are two kinds of Fast Twitch fibers they are the "2A" and the "2B" muscle fibers. Still with me?

NOW, the "2A" fibers only have the potential of growing 25% more than what they are.
The "2B" fibers can actuallygrow 100% of what they are

SO THE GOAL IS TO TRAIN TO HIT THE 2B MUSCLE FIBERS

All weight training uses the 2A fibers first, but they have limited growth potential. 2B's on the otherhand, are more stubborn, they only come into play in response to tension. When tension on the muscle is GREATEST, THEN and ONLY then do the 2B's kick in!!

Still with me?

Working 2A's over and over like in the routine you are currently doing, will never recruit the 2B's
BUT if you hit the 2B's you will always use the 2A's first. Got that?

SO, the question you are thinking right now shoudl be.....SMAN, just how do I recruit the 2B's so I can get the maximum size to my muscles? right?

Funny you should ask. The answer is:

HEAVY WEIGHTS IN THE 6-12 REP RANGE (WITH GOOD FORM)

Understanding rep ranges:
Less than 6 reps = Increase in strength but not muscle size
6-12 reps = increase in strength AND size
More than 12 = improves muscle endurance BUT not size!!

Too many reps produces too much Lactic Acid which breaks down Glycogen (muscle fuel) and the ACID build-up prevents total muscle contraction!!!

Did I lose you yet?? Good, lets move on to why no rest is a bad idea too.

Shorter rest periods KILL the intensity of the workout!!!
Rest should be long enough between sets to reduce the heart rate to almost normal. You DO NOT want the heart and lungs to get tired and fail before you muscle fibers do!!!

NOW, the disclaimer here is that this all depends on your goals!! If you want to be an endurance athlete than parts of the routine you are doing would be fine. But then you are working more Aerobically, than Anerobically which will mostly work the 2A muscle fibers along with the Slow twitch muscle fibers.

From what you are stating that is just the OPPOSITE of what you want to do!


I hope this helps!!!!

give it up for sman!! could not of said it better myself.. PERFECT explanation

[jaded996]

Wow, very nice explination and I followed it all the way through. What do you think about me staying with the current program until I loose the weight I want to, then switching to a more size based program like the one you suggested?

Since right now my main goal is overall fitness and weight loss. I know its damn near impossible to achieve major fat loss and add muscle, since the principles for each are basically opposites. You need to eat to grow, but to cut down you need to limit calories.

[SMAN12b]

Wow, very nice explination and I followed it all the way through. What do you think about me staying with the current program until I loose the weight I want to, then switching to a more size based program like the one you suggested?

Since right now my main goal is overall fitness and weight loss. I know its damn near impossible to achieve major fat loss and add muscle, since the principles for each are basically opposites. You need to eat to grow, but to cut down you need to limit calories.

That is perfectly fine, but again, I dont' think you would need to use AAS on that program until your BF% is at least 20% or below. You may be able to try Clenbuteral, but I think the diet and lifting are gonna do more good for you than anything. This way your body will have a stong base, less fat to tax your heart and you will be able to make the most out of using AAS then!

GOOD LUCK, Please keep us posted on your progress and us the time on this board to learn as much as possible so that when you do get under that 20% mark, you will have a great idea of how you want to cycle if you still do by then!!

[jaded996]

Thanks for all the help. I will be looking around here a lot trying to get my diet dialed in and stay on track. I will get my body fat done so I know where I stand. I don't feel like throwing money out the door on product that wont help me until I am ready.

Thanks a lot and I will keep you guys updated!

[SMAN12b]

sounds like a good plan Jaded996 !!!

[SMAN12b]

I did check out your program, and it seems like it is definetly NOT geared towards building so much as aerobic endurance.....

[SMAN12b]

Bump to get VETS opinions here...

[MAXIMA5]

Wow, this turned out to be an impressive thread. Hats off.

[SMAN12b]

hope it helps!!!