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06-01-2006, 11:21 PM #1
Conventional Estrogen managment on cycle and PCT
Hello just wanted to share a skeleton of what should be considered a standard Estrogen and PCT regimen for the Novice
this frame work should work for a cycle under 750 mgs of Test a week ( generally)
On Cycle you may need both a systemic Aromatase inhibitor and a Site specific
run daily on cycle:
Arimadex at 1mg a day
Nolvadex at 10 mgs a day
7 days after last shot of long acting ester
use HCG at 2000 ius every 3-4 days for 4 shots total
3 days after last shot of HCG
run Clomid at 50 mgs a day
Arimadex at 1 mg a day
Nolvadex at 10-20 mgs a day
continue for 21-30 days
thats itLast edited by O.M.E.G.A; 06-01-2006 at 11:36 PM.
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06-01-2006, 11:25 PM #2
Arimadex = Ldex or Liquidex
Nolvadex = Nolva orTamoxLast edited by O.M.E.G.A; 06-01-2006 at 11:27 PM.
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06-01-2006, 11:28 PM #3
what is HCG ?
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06-01-2006, 11:30 PM #4Originally Posted by dimentia
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06-02-2006, 02:45 AM #5
Re
Hi all
regarding the Arimidex +Nolva combo...if u read carefully on the paper that comes with the adex pack, they strongly advice against not combining both...now keeping in mind that adex is for tratment of breast cancer, this advice could be directed to female users only not bbders...maybe someone could shed a light on this??
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06-02-2006, 09:27 PM #6Originally Posted by Othello
could you proof read that and tell us what you are trying to say please
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06-02-2006, 11:32 PM #7Originally Posted by dimentia
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06-02-2006, 11:43 PM #8Originally Posted by dimentia
dont worry both are fine
adex at 1 mg
nolva at 10 mgs
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06-03-2006, 12:01 AM #9~ Vet~ I like Thai Girls
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What is the thinking behind 1mg of Adex ? almost every peice of advice I have seen here recommends 0.25 or 0.5mg, I dont think I have ever seen anybody recommend 1mg before
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06-03-2006, 12:16 AM #102/3 Deca 1/3 Test
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Does anyone else agree/not agree with this?
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06-03-2006, 12:42 AM #11Originally Posted by Kale
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06-03-2006, 07:00 AM #12Originally Posted by Kale
becuase 1 mg of adex only stops about 65-75% of systemic estro
where things like Aromasin stop all of it
on cycle where aromatization occurs 1 mg shoudld be considered a minimum
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06-03-2006, 07:40 PM #13
..
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06-03-2006, 07:41 PM #142/3 Deca 1/3 Test
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So yer saying you should eliminate all estrogen???
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06-03-2006, 07:59 PM #15
no but will take care of excess aromatization which is responsible for estrogenic side effects such as fat gain, moodyness and other long term health issues
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06-03-2006, 08:21 PM #16Originally Posted by Anabolios
no I'm just asking him to check his grammar because that statement could be easily misunderstood. I wasn't asking him to PROVE anything nor am I trying to discredit anyoneLast edited by dimentia; 06-03-2006 at 08:31 PM.
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06-03-2006, 08:22 PM #17Originally Posted by Kale
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06-03-2006, 08:52 PM #18~ Vet~ I like Thai Girls
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Originally Posted by *****
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06-03-2006, 08:59 PM #19Originally Posted by Anabolios
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06-03-2006, 09:51 PM #20
I take 1 mg of arimidex by AstraZenica every day. It has lowered my Estro
level from 257 down to 117. Below 130 is normanl.
I get my blood work done every 2 months. This would be a large dose for
somebody that just wanted to take it for the hell of it. Get blood work
done and do things scientific.
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06-03-2006, 10:24 PM #21Originally Posted by Kale
yes but form this computer I cant cut and past link for some reason
have some faith will ya
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06-04-2006, 02:15 AM #22
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06-04-2006, 08:42 AM #23Originally Posted by Narkissos
hey Narkissos, what do you recommend for preventing gyno and if you aren't prone to gyno what would you do durring a cycle?
Why are you saying Arimidex & Nolva aren't good for taking together?Last edited by dimentia; 06-04-2006 at 09:04 AM.
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06-04-2006, 12:36 PM #24
I keep Adex levels at 0.5 EOD until I feel my nipples hurting or itching. If that occurs (and has), then I bump it to 1mg for a day or 2 until symptoms subside.
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06-04-2006, 02:26 PM #25
.5-1 mg adex with 10 mgs Nolva right here
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06-05-2006, 11:37 AM #26
So, is a Proviron and Nolvadex combination antiquated?
I am prone to gyno and want to have an effective combination BEFORE starting my cycle. I took this combination before while running Sus/Deca and still felt soreness. Now I am going to start a week before my cycle (Test E/Deca) and have a slightly higher dosage, but if there is a better combination, I am all for it.
Arimidex
-or-
Proviron 25mg twice daily
Nolvadex 20mg twice daily
Thanks in advance,
Sam
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06-05-2006, 12:37 PM #27Originally Posted by seesamplay
In your latter suggested protocol... your nolvadex dosage is too high. While dht-derivatives can have anti-progestinic actions, i wouldn't use proviron as my sole line of defense on a cycle including a 19-nor.
Narkissos
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06-05-2006, 12:49 PM #28Originally Posted by dimentia
States that with the concurrent use of Nolvadex and Arimidex (or Nolvadex and Letrozole ), Nolvadex will greatly reduce the serum amount of the AI... I believe the percentage of reduction is 47%... nearly half.
Obviously the supplementation of the two makes no sense.
What do i recommend for the the prevention of gyno?
It depends on the choice of compounds for the cycle... It depends on the individual.. and cycle history if any.
A safe place to start would be Nolva (20 mg)+ proviron (100mg)...or Nolva (20 mg) + aromasin (20mg) (the latter with preference) Slightly more expensive than 'standard' therapies.. but effective. Also of preference, would be that one start your gyno-preventative therapies 2-3 weeks prior to the start of one's cycle.
For an indidivual not prone to gyno.. a dht-derived steroid included in each cycle at a dose equal to (or just under that of) the aromatisable steroid would do nicely imo.
Narkissos
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06-05-2006, 01:16 PM #29Junior Member
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Estrogen isnt all bad you know.
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06-05-2006, 01:38 PM #30Originally Posted by kungen1234
The thread isn't entitled "Total Estrogen Annihilation".. rather it focuses around the management of estrogen on cycle.
Namely, the prevention of gyno
Narkissos
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06-05-2006, 02:09 PM #31Originally Posted by Narkissos
You give the nod to Letrozole over Proviron and Nolvadex. Is it a substantial difference? I don't know if I have access to Letrozole, but if it's decidely better I will start looking. Nolvadex and Proviron would be the easiest for me to procure, but I don't want to cut any corners since I incurred gyno symptoms in my last cycle. What would I combine with Letrozole? What dosage would be adequate?
You also mention aromasin in another post. Is this not pertinent to my cycle?
What is the downside to having Nolvadex dosages too high (20mg twice daily)?
The Proviron you recommended at 100mg seemed like a lot. Would that be 25mg four times daily, 50mg twice or all at once?
Thanks in advance,
Sam
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06-05-2006, 02:18 PM #32Originally Posted by *****
As usual the vets (Nark in this case, illuminates the darkness or Narkness). However, the above is untrue Aromasin prevents esto at 85%.
M.
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06-05-2006, 02:48 PM #33Originally Posted by Narkissos
solid advice right ther bro.
as a note if there is aromatization via test and deca is included one it much more likely to get gyno via progestin.
In other words no E managment on a cycle of test makes progestine levels more of an issue, slap deca on that and your screwed for a period of time
which is why estrogen management is so important ON cycle........
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06-05-2006, 02:56 PM #34Originally Posted by *****
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06-05-2006, 03:11 PM #35Originally Posted by seesamplay
Originally Posted by seesamplay
Proviron mildly reduces the rate of aromatisation. Nolvadex competes with estrogen at the receptor site... binding reversibly.As you can see, this is not a 100% gauranteed process.. as some estrogen will still be circulating... due to the aromatisation process only being somewhat suppressed. Circulation estrogen can still go about it and wreck havoc in a prone individual.
Letrozole however... is more effective at suppressing the aromatase enzyme... In addition it down-regulates the progesterone receptor site.
This latter function is especially important when you're usign 19-nor steroids : known progestins.
Originally Posted by seesamplay
Human Grade would be best in my honest opinion.
Originally Posted by seesamplay
Dosage? .25-.5 mg daily
Originally Posted by seesamplay
For your cycle of choice however.. i believe Letrozole is the best choice... Next in line would be Aromasin + nolva.. followed by proviron + nolva
My humble opinion however.
Originally Posted by seesamplay
2. possible estrogenic activity in tissues.
Remember that Both nolva and clomid can act as estrogens in specific tissues. Not saying this is exactly a 'downside'... but.... you see where i'm comign from. I can see no practical benefit to the higher dose.
The Proviron you recommended at 100mg seemed like a lot. Would that be 25mg four times daily, 50mg twice or all at once?
Originally Posted by seesamplay
Nark
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06-05-2006, 04:07 PM #36Originally Posted by Narkissos
thankyou for contributing to this post Narkissos
I disaagree with some of the Nolva comments but cant link up to other studies to back up my case ......
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06-05-2006, 04:10 PM #37
So this cycle:
(-1) - 20 Nolvadex 20mg twice daily
(-1) - 17 Proviron 25mg twice daily
1 - 4 Dianabol 10mg four times daily
1 - 14 Deca 200mg twice weekly
1 - 15 Test Enanthate 250mg twice weekly
18 - 20 Clomid for PCT 300/100/50
Becomes this cycle:
(-1) - 20 Letrozole 2.5mg twice daily
1 - 4 Dianabol 10mg four times daily
1 - 14 Deca 200mg twice weekly
1 - 15 Test Enanthate 250mg twice weekly
18 - 20 Clomid for PCT 300/100/50
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06-05-2006, 04:23 PM #38
you can get away with Test E and Deca once weekly
the Test e blood levels will dip only marginally versus shots twice a week
still favor.5-1.mg adex daily with 10 mgs of Nolva
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