Conventional Estrogen managment on cycle and PCT

[O.M.E.G.A]

Hello just wanted to share a skeleton of what should be considered a standard Estrogen and PCT regimen for the Novice

this frame work should work for a cycle under 750 mgs of Test a week ( generally)

On Cycle you may need both a systemic Aromatase inhibitor and a Site specific

run daily on cycle:
Arimadex at 1mg a day
Nolvadex at 10 mgs a day

7 days after last shot of long acting ester
use HCG at 2000 ius every 3-4 days for 4 shots total

3 days after last shot of HCG
run Clomid at 50 mgs a day
Arimadex at 1 mg a day
Nolvadex at 10-20 mgs a day
continue for 21-30 days

thats it

[O.M.E.G.A]

Arimadex = Ldex or Liquidex

Nolvadex = Nolva orTamox

[dimentia]

what is HCG?

[Anabolios]

what is HCG?

human chorionic gonadtropins? sorry if i butchered the spelling but its something to that effect...do ur own research my man... check out profiles forum or run a search

[Othello]

Hi all
regarding the Arimidex+Nolva combo...if u read carefully on the paper that comes with the adex pack, they strongly advice against not combining both...now keeping in mind that adex is for tratment of breast cancer, this advice could be directed to female users only not bbders...maybe someone could shed a light on this??

[dimentia]

Hi all
regarding the Arimidex+Nolva combo...if u read carefully on the paper that comes with the adex pack, they strongly advice against not combining both...now keeping in mind that adex is for tratment of breast cancer, this advice could be directed to female users only not bbders...maybe someone could shed a light on this??

they strongly advise against not combining both?????

could you proof read that and tell us what you are trying to say please

[Anabolios]

they strongly advise against not combining both?????

could you proof read that and tell us what you are trying to say please

this is on an arimidex box...the prescription for breast cancer...he said it was obviously for breast cancer patients on not body builders nobody needs to "proof" anything he was just reading the box sounds like youre only trying to discredit someone and get your post count up

[O.M.E.G.A]

they strongly advise against not combining both?????

could you proof read that and tell us what you are trying to say please

dont worry both are fine

adex at 1 mg
nolva at 10 mgs

[Kale]

What is the thinking behind 1mg of Adex ? almost every peice of advice I have seen here recommends 0.25 or 0.5mg, I dont think I have ever seen anybody recommend 1mg before

[guest589745]

Does anyone else agree/not agree with this?

[Liftnainez]

What is the thinking behind 1mg of Adex ? almost every peice of advice I have seen here recommends 0.25 or 0.5mg, I dont think I have ever seen anybody recommend 1mg before

Im thinking the same bro.. never heard of this..

[O.M.E.G.A]

What is the thinking behind 1mg of Adex ? almost every peice of advice I have seen here recommends 0.25 or 0.5mg, I dont think I have ever seen anybody recommend 1mg before

becuase 1 mg of adex only stops about 65-75% of systemic estro
where things like Aromasin stop all of it

on cycle where aromatization occurs 1 mg shoudld be considered a minimum

[O.M.E.G.A]

..

[guest589745]

So yer saying you should eliminate all estrogen???

[O.M.E.G.A]

no but will take care of excess aromatization which is responsible for estrogenic side effects such as fat gain, moodyness and other long term health issues

[dimentia]

this is on an arimidex box...the prescription for breast cancer...he said it was obviously for breast cancer patients on not body builders nobody needs to "proof" anything he was just reading the box sounds like youre only trying to discredit someone and get your post count up

no I'm just asking him to check his grammar because that statement could be easily misunderstood. I wasn't asking him to PROVE anything nor am I trying to discredit anyone

[dimentia]

What is the thinking behind 1mg of Adex ? almost every peice of advice I have seen here recommends 0.25 or 0.5mg, I dont think I have ever seen anybody recommend 1mg before

that's exactly what I've seen as well.

[Kale]

becuase 1 mg of adex only stops about 65-75% of systemic estro
where things like Aromasin stop all of it

on cycle where aromatization occurs 1 mg shoudld be considered a minimum

Are you basing this on a study that has been done ?

[dimentia]

this is on an arimidex box...the prescription for breast cancer...he said it was obviously for breast cancer patients on not body builders nobody needs to "proof" anything he was just reading the box sounds like youre only trying to discredit someone and get your post count up

And besides anabolios if you compare our join dates vs. the number of posts we have it doesn't look like you have much room to talk about trying to get post counts up.......jackass

[Ufa]

I take 1 mg of arimidex by AstraZenica every day. It has lowered my Estro
level from 257 down to 117. Below 130 is normanl.

I get my blood work done every 2 months. This would be a large dose for
somebody that just wanted to take it for the hell of it. Get blood work
done and do things scientific.

[O.M.E.G.A]

Are you basing this on a study that has been done ?

yes but form this computer I cant cut and past link for some reason

have some faith will ya

[*Narkissos*]

Does anyone else agree/not agree with this?

me

.J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 2001 Dec;79(1-5):85-91



Arimidex + nolva?

Hell no.

[dimentia]

me

.J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 2001 Dec;79(1-5):85-91



Arimidex + nolva?

Hell no.

hey Narkissos, what do you recommend for preventing gyno and if you aren't prone to gyno what would you do durring a cycle?

Why are you saying Arimidex & Nolva aren't good for taking together?

[TheSentinal]

I keep Adex levels at 0.5 EOD until I feel my nipples hurting or itching. If that occurs (and has), then I bump it to 1mg for a day or 2 until symptoms subside.

[O.M.E.G.A]

.5-1 mg adex with 10 mgs Nolva right here

[seesamplay]

So, is a Proviron and Nolvadex combination antiquated?

I am prone to gyno and want to have an effective combination BEFORE starting my cycle. I took this combination before while running Sus/Deca and still felt soreness. Now I am going to start a week before my cycle (Test E/Deca) and have a slightly higher dosage, but if there is a better combination, I am all for it.

Arimidex

-or-

Proviron 25mg twice daily
Nolvadex 20mg twice daily

Thanks in advance,

Sam

[*Narkissos*]

So, is a Proviron and Nolvadex combination antiquated?

I am prone to gyno and want to have an effective combination BEFORE starting my cycle. I took this combination before while running Sus/Deca and still felt soreness. Now I am going to start a week before my cycle (Test E/Deca) and have a slightly higher dosage, but if there is a better combination, I am all for it.

Arimidex

-or-

Proviron 25mg twice daily
Nolvadex 20mg twice daily

Thanks in advance,

Sam

If you're on Test-E + Deca (compound no.1 has a high rate of aromatising... substance no.2 has a lower rate of aromatising and is also a progestin) i think your best bet is Letrozole. Not proviron + nolva.

In your latter suggested protocol... your nolvadex dosage is too high. While dht-derivatives can have anti-progestinic actions, i wouldn't use proviron as my sole line of defense on a cycle including a 19-nor.

Narkissos

[*Narkissos*]

hey Narkissos, what do you recommend for preventing gyno and if you aren't prone to gyno what would you do durring a cycle?

Why are you saying Arimidex & Nolva aren't good for taking together?

this study: .J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 2001 Dec;79(1-5):85-91

States that with the concurrent use of Nolvadex and Arimidex (or Nolvadex and Letrozole), Nolvadex will greatly reduce the serum amount of the AI... I believe the percentage of reduction is 47%... nearly half.

Obviously the supplementation of the two makes no sense.

What do i recommend for the the prevention of gyno?

It depends on the choice of compounds for the cycle... It depends on the individual.. and cycle history if any.

A safe place to start would be Nolva (20 mg)+ proviron (100mg)...or Nolva (20 mg) + aromasin (20mg) (the latter with preference) Slightly more expensive than 'standard' therapies.. but effective. Also of preference, would be that one start your gyno-preventative therapies 2-3 weeks prior to the start of one's cycle.

For an indidivual not prone to gyno.. a dht-derived steroid included in each cycle at a dose equal to (or just under that of) the aromatisable steroid would do nicely imo.

Narkissos

[kungen1234]

Estrogen isnt all bad you know.

[*Narkissos*]

Estrogen isnt all bad you know.

We know that.

The thread isn't entitled "Total Estrogen Annihilation".. rather it focuses around the management of estrogen on cycle.

Namely, the prevention of gyno

Narkissos

[seesamplay]

If you're on Test-E + Deca (compound no.1 has a high rate of aromatising... substance no.2 has a lower rate of aromatising and is also a progestin) i think your best bet is Letrozole. Not proviron + nolva.

In your latter suggested protocol... your nolvadex dosage is too high. While dht-derivatives can have anti-progestinic actions, i wouldn't use proviron as my sole line of defense on a cycle including a 19-nor.

Narkissos

Thanks for the insight. I certainly appreciate you taking the time to respond. I have a few questions if you don't mind.

You give the nod to Letrozole over Proviron and Nolvadex. Is it a substantial difference? I don't know if I have access to Letrozole, but if it's decidely better I will start looking. Nolvadex and Proviron would be the easiest for me to procure, but I don't want to cut any corners since I incurred gyno symptoms in my last cycle. What would I combine with Letrozole? What dosage would be adequate?

You also mention aromasin in another post. Is this not pertinent to my cycle?

What is the downside to having Nolvadex dosages too high (20mg twice daily)?

The Proviron you recommended at 100mg seemed like a lot. Would that be 25mg four times daily, 50mg twice or all at once?

Thanks in advance,

Sam

[magic32]

becuase 1 mg of adex only stops about 65-75% of systemic estro where things like Aromasin stop all of it on cycle where aromatization occurs 1 mg shoudld be considered a minimum

This thread is both informative and funny.

As usual the vets (Nark in this case, illuminates the darkness or Narkness). However, the above is untrue Aromasin prevents esto at 85%.

M.

[O.M.E.G.A]

If you're on Test-E + Deca (compound no.1 has a high rate of aromatising... substance no.2 has a lower rate of aromatising and is also a progestin) i think your best bet is Letrozole. Not proviron + nolva.



Narkissos

solid advice right ther bro.

as a note if there is aromatization via test and deca is included one it much more likely to get gyno via progestin.
In other words no E managment on a cycle of test makes progestine levels more of an issue, slap deca on that and your screwed for a period of time

which is why estrogen management is so important ON cycle........

[*Narkissos*]

solid advice right ther bro.

as a note if there is aromatization via test and deca is included one it much more likely to get gyno via progestin.
In other words no E managment on a cycle of test makes progestine levels more of an issue, slap deca on that and your screwed for a period of time

which is why estrogen management is so important ON cycle........

Can't argue with that there

[*Narkissos*]

Thanks for the insight. I certainly appreciate you taking the time to respond. I have a few questions if you don't mind.

Never a prob man

You give the nod to Letrozole over Proviron and Nolvadex. Is it a substantial difference?

Yes.. Letrozole alone is simply more effective.

Proviron mildly reduces the rate of aromatisation. Nolvadex competes with estrogen at the receptor site... binding reversibly.As you can see, this is not a 100% gauranteed process.. as some estrogen will still be circulating... due to the aromatisation process only being somewhat suppressed. Circulation estrogen can still go about it and wreck havoc in a prone individual.

Letrozole however... is more effective at suppressing the aromatase enzyme... In addition it down-regulates the progesterone receptor site.

This latter function is especially important when you're usign 19-nor steroids: known progestins.

I don't know if I have access to Letrozole, but if it's decidely better I will start looking.

Start looking.

Human Grade would be best in my honest opinion.

Nolvadex and Proviron would be the easiest for me to procure, but I don't want to cut any corners since I incurred gyno symptoms in my last cycle. What would I combine with Letrozole? What dosage would be adequate?

That's the beauty of the compound.. you don't need to combine Letro with anything.

Dosage? .25-.5 mg daily

You also mention aromasin in another post. Is this not pertinent to my cycle?

Not per se... i was outlining my AI + SERM combinations of preference.

For your cycle of choice however.. i believe Letrozole is the best choice... Next in line would be Aromasin + nolva.. followed by proviron + nolva

My humble opinion however.

What is the downside to having Nolvadex dosages too high (20mg twice daily)?

1. Waste money.
2. possible estrogenic activity in tissues.

Remember that Both nolva and clomid can act as estrogens in specific tissues. Not saying this is exactly a 'downside'... but.... you see where i'm comign from. I can see no practical benefit to the higher dose.
The Proviron you recommended at 100mg seemed like a lot. Would that be 25mg four times daily, 50mg twice or all at once?

Thanks in advance,

Sam

No prob

Nark

[O.M.E.G.A]

Can't argue with that there

thankyou for contributing to this post Narkissos

I disaagree with some of the Nolva comments but cant link up to other studies to back up my case ......

[seesamplay]

So this cycle:

(-1) - 20 Nolvadex 20mg twice daily
(-1) - 17 Proviron 25mg twice daily
1 - 4 Dianabol 10mg four times daily
1 - 14 Deca 200mg twice weekly
1 - 15 Test Enanthate 250mg twice weekly
18 - 20 Clomid for PCT 300/100/50

Becomes this cycle:

(-1) - 20 Letrozole 2.5mg twice daily
1 - 4 Dianabol 10mg four times daily
1 - 14 Deca 200mg twice weekly
1 - 15 Test Enanthate 250mg twice weekly
18 - 20 Clomid for PCT 300/100/50

[O.M.E.G.A]

you can get away with Test E and Deca once weekly
the Test e blood levels will dip only marginally versus shots twice a week

still favor.5-1.mg adex daily with 10 mgs of Nolva