Need some 1st cycle help

Here's where I am:

-32 years old.
-201 lbs
-Working out for about 1.5 years, 4 times a week Mon,Tue,Thurs,Fri.
-Made a decision to get serious about 2 months ago to take it serious.
-Got into Muscletech supps: Gakic,Leukic,Cell-Tech,Nitro-Tech,Creakic
-Got a personal trainer 1 month ago.
-Mon chest/delts
Tue back/bicep
Wed off
Thur legs/legs
Fri tricepts/biceps/delts
-Spend about 30-40 mins in gym, Mon,Tue,Thurs,Fri.

On the muscelech, gained about 5 lbs of water, and actually can see a size difference a little bit but wasn't enough. This is where I was after muscletech, before anabolics

WEIGHT - 206
CHEST REST - 43"
ARMS (FLEXED) - 15"
CALVES - 16"
SHOULDERS - 43"
FOREARMS - 11.5"
WAIST - 39"

Then got hooked up with the following:
-16 amps Deca durabolin (200mg)
-12 amps Sustanon (250mg)
-100 tabs Dianobol (10mg)

I am 3 weeks into the cycle (pyramid), and this is the injected history up to today:

week 1 - 200mg deca, 250mg sust, 20mg Dbol
week 2 - 200mg deca, 250mg sust, 20mg Dbol
week 3 - 400mg deca, 250mg sust, 30mg Dbol
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The remainder below is the rest of the cycle
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week 4 - 400mg deca, 250mg sust, 40mg Dbol
week 5 - 400mg deca, 500mg sust, 45mg Dbol
week 6 - 600mg deca, 500mg sust, 50mg Dbol
week 7 - 400mg deca, 500mg sust, 40mg Dbol
week 8 - 400mg deca, 250mg sust, 30mg Dbol

Workout schedule:
Mon - chest/delts/abs
Tue - back/bi's/abs
Wed - off
Thu - legs/legs/abs (light)
Fri - tri's/bi's/delts/abs
Also, I was riding my bike 10 miles a day 4 days out of the week, sometimes same day as weights (afterwards)

My specs after the 3rd week are as follows: Please take into consideration that I am measuring myself, and some locations may not be the same. All measurements are "at rest" unless they are stated "flexed".

WEIGHT - 223
CHEST REST - 45.75"
ARMS (FLEXED) - 16"
CALVES - 17"
SHOULDERS - 49.5"
FOREARMS - 13."
WAIST - 39"

The above numbers are as accurate as I could get them. I definitely see a difference now. I am wider, arms are fuller, forearms are pumped. Looking better.

*** NOTES ***
-I work my ass off everyday in the gym with my trainer 110% every rep
-Trainer knows what gear I have
-He has me on a 3500 calorie with 180 gms of protein daily.
-I told him I want my ass kicked everyday I see him!
-I have a spare tire!!! I wanted to bulk then cut. (See goals below)

*** HERE ARE MY QUESTIONS ***
-Is 4 days a week too much right now? (mon,tue,thur,fri) or will I grow more on 3 day work?
-Is an 8 wk cycle not long enough? I see some going up to 14 wks?
-Is 10 miles riding too much after working out w/weights? I heard 30 min cardio a day is good? Too many opinions out there.....What is real? I have a belly I need to get rid of (midsection)
- What is the fastest way to train the midsection (abs)? I need to lose the fat around the abs, help!
-How do I slow down my hair loss, I have noticed a little more than usual since I have started the cycle
-How do I come off the cycle? What can I use to keep my hard fought-for gains?
-What is the best gear (or supps) to cut after the bulking cycle?
-What is the correct time to allow the body to recup before next cycle?

*** Diet ***
-boneless/skinless chicken breast
-steak
-filets
-potatoes
-egg whites
-oatmeal
-spaghetti
-protien bars
-cytogainer
-lots of water, than more water, then some more!
-supps (pro rx lab nitro2 & muscle pump)

*** Goals ***
-Don't want to be a vien popping meathead
-Want to look good with my shirt off, nice arms, back, forearms
-Want to have a real tight midsection (abs), never had em, but want em!

**********************
I looked over a few posts and gathered the information most people asked for, hopefully there is enough information here to get some good help. I am being honest about what I am looking for, so I am looking for some honest help.

1. u havent worked out long enough to have a solid base for aas...
2. u shouldnt pyramid ur cycle....
3. u shouldnt run so many compounds for first cycle...
4. u shouldnt run deca higher then test...
5. 8 weeks is relatively short for a cycle....
6. do u have pct....thats all i have for now, because im to tired to even read ur diet and workout...post it in those sections, u'll get better responses on those there...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lucabratzi

1. u havent worked out long enough to have a solid base for aas...
2. u shouldnt pyramid ur cycle....
3. u shouldnt run so many compounds for first cycle...
4. u shouldnt run deca higher then test...
5. 8 weeks is relatively short for a cycle....
6. do u have pct....thats all i have for now, because im to tired to even read ur diet and workout...post it in those sections, u'll get better responses on those there...

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1. I have already started and am in my 3rd week. At this point I am just going to finish it out.
2. Is pyramiding bad? I have been told this is a tried and true method?
3. I was actually thinking of pulling the dbol completely after 4 weeks, and just use it as a kickstart
4. This is actually a bulking cycle I have seen posted on many boards, I thought I was doing right by doing my research. Please explain as to why the deca should not exceed the sus dosage.
5. What is a good cycle length for these compounds?
6. The PCT is what I was questioning, looking for real world results on what you all have found.

Thanks for the response. And sorry for the long email, just wanted to be thorough and not see all response about "CAN'T HELP YOU, NOT ENOUGH INFORMATION"!!! all over the thread.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jarheadx

*******************
1. I have already started and am in my 3rd week. At this point I am just going to finish it out.
Bro, do you have any anti-e's?
2. Is pyramiding bad? I have been told this is a tried and true method?
Have you checked out the threads talking about cycles?
3. I was actually thinking of pulling the dbol completely after 4 weeks, and just use it as a kickstart
You can do this.
4. This is actually a bulking cycle I have seen posted on many boards, I thought I was doing right by doing my research. Please explain as to why the deca should not exceed the sus dosage.
Most recommend a test only first cycle.
5. What is a good cycle length for these compounds?
Most cycles are 10-12 weeks.
6. The PCT is what I was questioning, looking for real world results on what you all have found.
What do you have on hand?
Thanks for the response. And sorry for the long email, just wanted to be thorough and not see all response about "CAN'T HELP YOU, NOT ENOUGH INFORMATION"!!! all over the thread.

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Is your training buddy knowledgeable?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jarheadx

Here's where I am:

-32 years old.
-201 lbs
-Working out for about 1.5 years, 4 times a week Mon,Tue,Thurs,Fri.
-Made a decision to get serious about 2 months ago to take it serious.
-**********************
I looked over a few posts and gathered the information most people asked for, hopefully there is enough information here to get some good help. I am being honest about what I am looking for, so I am looking for some honest help.

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You shouldnt be even cycling with only 1.5 yrs of training and only 2 months of serious training under your belt,

Research and get the knowledge before doing anything, concentrate on diet/food and a good solid training program

I think you shouldnt be taking steroids since youve only been training seriously for a couple months. Any way, most people recommend test only for a first cycle. You need to see how your body reacts to test first so in your case if you start getting sides how will you know which compound caused it? You wont!! Example, say you start developing gyno (aka man boobs) all three compounds you are taking can cause it. Sust and dbol could cause it from the aromatization of test to estrogen, however deca could cause via progesterone activity..they are two completely different things and you have to take two different compounds to counter it!! This is what we call doing research..which you didnt do!! Pyramiding is old school, nobody that knows anything about steroids does not pyramid. It causes fluctuations in blood levels and increases the chances of side effect. Sustanon is a blend of four test esters some fast acting and some long acting..you should really shoot it every other day to keep blood levels more stable. Running your cycle for 8 weeks is too short since deca and the longer esters of test will take 4-6 weeks to kick in. You best research your off ass on PCT too. Ok Im done rambling for now, but i could keep going. Do your research before you start injecting foreign substances into your body bro!

*** HERE ARE MY QUESTIONS ***
-Is 4 days a week too much right now? (mon,tue,thur,fri) or will I grow more on 3 day work? 4 days is fine as long as you are not overtraining each muscle. They need time to recover-Is an 8 wk cycle not long enough? I see some going up to 14 wks?
-Is 10 miles riding too much after working out w/weights? I heard 30 min cardio a day is good? Too many opinions out there.....What is real? I have a belly I need to get rid of (midsection) You are better off if you can do cardio seoperate from the weights. You need PostWorkOut (PWO) meal immediately after intense weight training. Cardio BEST to do on empty stomach 30-45 minutes daily, EOD - What is the fastest way to train the midsection (abs)? I need to lose the fat around the abs, help! SORRY, you can NOT spot reduce fat. In men, the midsection, lower back and love handles are the last to go. It is ALL DIET-How do I slow down my hair loss, I have noticed a little more than usual since I have started the cycle You should have done a hell of a lot more research before ever beign talked into do a cycle. You dont' know 1/100th of what you should know before putting drugs in your body. There are drugs thta will help slow down hair loss
-How do I come off the cycle? What can I use to keep my hard fought-for gains? AGAIN, you shoudl have ALREADY had the proper PCT in your hands before EVER injecting anything. You shoudl have an AI, clomid, nolva at minimum. Your "hook up" for this cycle doesn't give a crap about you and has NOT given you the prpper first cycle information and you are using compounds that you shouldn't be using
-What is the best gear (or supps) to cut after the bulking cycle? TAKE NOTHING until you research here for many, many more months or years-What is the correct time to allow the body to recup before next cycle? Time on =proper PCT time =MINIMUM time off. But for you I would definetly research for a long time before considering doing AAS again

Wow, I was thinking I was actually going to get help, not a hand slap. The reason why I came to this site was to learn! Obviously I made a mistake, but am trying to make the best of it. So lets not continue to beat a dead horse, try to give some constructive criticism on how I can make this a positive.

Also, the reason why I chose this site was because it looked like there was some guys who actually gave a shit. You have said your piece! Now lets move on to hte learning stage.

If I knew everything already, I wouldn't have to look for HELP!

I am sure I am not the only one who ever jumped into a cycle prematurely.

I have the ability to get any gear I need at any time. Clomid and Nolva included. Which is the best for what I am trying to acomplish.

MARCUS
LONGHORN
SMAN

I appreciate the honesty and the harsh words! But I need some reciprocating education. Sman you shed some light on some things and I appreciate it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jarheadx

*******************
1. I have already started and am in my 3rd week. At this point I am just going to finish it out.
2. Is pyramiding bad? I have been told this is a tried and true method?
3. I was actually thinking of pulling the dbol completely after 4 weeks, and just use it as a kickstart
4. This is actually a bulking cycle I have seen posted on many boards, I thought I was doing right by doing my research. Please explain as to why the deca should not exceed the sus dosage.
5. What is a good cycle length for these compounds?
6. The PCT is what I was questioning, looking for real world results on what you all have found.

Thanks for the response. And sorry for the long email, just wanted to be thorough and not see all response about "CAN'T HELP YOU, NOT ENOUGH INFORMATION"!!! all over the thread.

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1. it isnt to late to stop now. but if u really want to keep goin with it go for it, its ur choice.
2. yes pyramiding is bad, it creates unstable blood levels and increases sides...and from my experiance u want to get stable blood levels quickly and stay there...
3. yes only use dbol as a kickstart, it is toxic and running longer than that is makes it that much worse on ur organs...
4. yes its a good bulking cycle...but as a first cycle u dont need all those compounds to get good gains...u should learn how u react to test only, then add one more next cycle...so if u have bad sides u know where there comin from.
5.i would run the test. for about 12 weeks. and deca 11 weeks.
6.for me clomid 100mg/ed, novla 20mg/ed, and l-dex .25mg/ed was good to get me back to normal...
hope this helps...

Lucabratzi, thanks for the education 1st of all!

2nd, instead of the pyramid, what would you prescribe? 3 shots a week? Is it too late to change the cycle method?

My dbol usage will stop at the 4th week

Understood, running one compound at a time so you know if you react well to that compound.

and you liked clomid for your after cycle regime? if you were on a 12 week, when would you start the clomid?10th week or after the 12th?

i would split the shots up so that ur at about 500mg/wk test. and 400mg/wk deca...when u split it up do it for eod shots for the sust...this will make better blood levels...for deca it is shot 2 times a week, so in actuality u might be takin shots ed...happened to me when i jumpstarted my cycle with prop...eod shots prop and monday thurs test e. so everother week i was doin ed shots...as far as clomid i liked it, but take it right before u go to sleep...it gave me visual problems and ****ed with my head...so i would take it right before bed so i didnt experiace any of these sides...start pct 18 days after last inj.

Well Sorry for the HAND Slap, but it needs SLAPPED and it is BECAUSE we give a shit that we slap it.
You have made a great deal of mistakes with this cycle and where you got the information.
Your best thign to do would be to STOP NOW and start PCT then research.
Using AAS is NOT a game that you can just pick up in the middle and hope for a good outcome. IT IS A SPECIFIC SCIENCE with significant penilties for not doing it correctly

We are just trying to PROTECT you and most importantly your future health. Too many people jump into this because their BUDDY told them it is cool.

OK preaching is OVER:

IF and ONLY IF there is nothing else you can get your hands on like JUST TEST E or Cyp, then this is what I would do to make the best of this situation

#1 DROP the Dbol NOW stop it completely
#2 DROP the Deca NOW stop it completely
#3 If Sust is all the Tet you can get , then run it at a LEVEL dosage, no pyramid!! BLOOD LEVELS NEED TO BE STABLE very importamt. That being said. SUST should be shot a minimum of EOD (every other day)

Run the Sust at 125mgs EOD if you can handle splitting it and shooting it that way.
GET HCG, CLOMID, and Nolva....an AI to run through out wouldn't hurt like Arimidex or letro


First cycles should always be SINGLE ESTER TEST ONLY....so that you can educate yourself on the effects of each seperate compound on YOUR body...everbody is different and can react different.
Therefore, right now you have 6 different compounds going through your body and you will have NO CLUE as to what is working , not working , giving you tolerable sides , givnign you intolerable sides, gyno, acne, or whatever.....
You need to learn the science of yoru body so that you can do this the safest way and the healthiest way. Each new cycle you can add one compound along with the test so that YOU have CONTROL over your body and not the compounds having control adn possibly reaking havok on your body for now adn for your future!!

Hope this helps

As far as PCT goes, do some reading in here

http://forums.steroid.com/pct-post-cycle-therapy/

Since youve already started, this would be a good way to run that cycle

1-4 dbol 30mg/day
1-11 deca 400 mg/wk
1-12 sust 500 mg/wk

Split the deca and sust into two shots/week. Take 200mg deca and 250mg of sust on monday and then again on thursday. Start PCT 18 days after last shot of sust. Make sure you have nolva or some type of aromatase inhibitor on hand in case of gyno and to reduce bloat if u want

hey jar head ...these guys are not being but holes trust me...they get fustrated bro.They are being honest and I agree ...you dont have enough time in training to do cycles.But whats done is done....do some more research on what you have.....and dont forget your pct bro.yes clomid and nolvadex will be fine.

You have two months worth of serious training under your belt, you should of done better research before starting any kind of cycle,but that doesn't matter now you have already started,

IMHO id come off and go into pct and get some serious training going and get your body use to some intense sessions,concentrate on the training and study diets because you wont know anything in the space of 2 months,

best of luck

I'm not being a dick but why would you start to inject shit into your body that you dont know ant thing about?

What is one of the side effects were death. Would you have stuck your self then?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gsxxr

I'm not being a dick but why would you start to inject shit into your body that you dont know ant thing about?

What is one of the side effects were death. Would you have stuck your self then?

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Thankyou finally:wg: , i was getting frustrated reading this thread...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by marcus300

Thankyou finally:wg: , i was getting frustrated reading this thread...

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I share in your frustration bro.

JARHEADX
You should/need to listen to all the bros here. They're not ripping you, we're just being real. 1.5yrs. of training is NOT ENOUGH time to consider anabolics. RESEARCH RESEARCH AND MORE RESEARCH.

Hows your diet? Post it up in the proper forum, and not just what your eat, but how much? Meaning how many ounces of chicken/steak do you eat per sitting? How many egg whites?

I agree with the other guys, stop your cycle. Wait a while, do your own research, don't get it from somebody else and most importantly do a proper cycle that looks something like this, Week 1-4 dbol 30mg/day, Week 1-10Test E or C 500mg/week with PCT. Best of luck, buddy.

The last thing in the world one of are members would like to see is you getting heart. We play hard and safe and alwas like more people to join us. But at the same time be able to do it for the long run.

Gsxxr - I have been around this all my life, brothers in the gym, plus their friends, my friends....I have done alot of reading, research but just not on the forums, mostly on higher advertised sites (more the norm). So I knew that I may not have been ready, but I was close to where I needed to be.

I know how to inject, where to inject, this isn't like I was rolling into this blind. You make it seem like I was going into this wrecklessly, which is not the case. Now I may have made some wrong decisions, but I am new at this!

The fact is you guys here are just on another level, the information you fellas have given me is in some ways different than what I have been reading. I am guilty of not getting to the "correct source of information". That is why even though that some of your replies are just f*in brutal, I don't mind. I understand all of it and am taking notes so if I decided to do this again I can go in with the mindset that I need that I am doing "everything I can" to make sure I am being smart and safe!

ok bro...now that you're starting to understand....hang around and learn.Plus we all have fun here...the same guys that you think are ripping are fukin hilarious at times and will make you laugh your a$$ off.

well after glancing over this thread.. i thikn u really should take some SEROIUS time off after u finish this misscariage of a cycle...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by taiboxa

well after glancing over this thread.. i thikn u really should take some SEROIUS time off after u finish this misscariage of a cycle...

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LMAO......TAI you're too much:haha:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by taiboxa

well after glancing over this thread.. i thikn u really should take some SEROIUS time off after u finish this misscariage of a cycle...

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On a lighter side guy, I may not know "ALL" there is to know about this. But I know a thing or two about spelling, and maybe you and I could use each others help here!

It's all in love bro!

Not to be cruel, just used to lighten the mood!

You know AAS is science and along with science comes research. I have been lifting alot longer then you(not bragging) and I came here with the same idea learn some then get on the gear and I was wrong all these guys here care about almost every member on this board and dont want to see any of them get hurt. Sman12b, Marcus3000, Taiboxa, swolecat,pinnacle,USfighterFC, booz, nark, Carlos all these experianced guys and more care and dont want to see anyone get hurt. Like I said I came here with more experiance then you and took there advice and I am better for it. You should do the same they ripped on me a little becouse I was being stupid and nothing gets you to pay attention like being made fun off. Like they all have said quit the cycle go on pct and stick around train more learn more then when you are ready go and do a great first cycle. Seriously all these guys know what they are talking about LISTEN TO THEM

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jarheadx

On a lighter side guy, I may not know "ALL" there is to know about this. But I know a thing or two about spelling, and maybe you and I could use each others help here!

It's all in love bro!

Not to be cruel, just used to lighten the mood!

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Yeah Bro, we know Tai can't spell, but we luv him anyway....lolol
AND as you can tell by the amount of responses your thread got, you should know that after all is said and doe everyone on here truly CARES about any brother that injects!!

Stick around and you will learn volumes!!!

WELCOME TO AR !!


_______
SMAN

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SMAN12B

Yeah Bro, we know Tai can't spell, but we luv him anyway....lolol
AND as you can tell by the amount of responses your thread got, you should know that after all is said and doe everyone on here truly CARES about any brother that injects!!

Stick around and you will learn volumes!!!

WELCOME TO AR !!


_______
SMAN

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atleast im still lightyears ahead of gsxxr's spelling !!!! :D :D :D

I recognize tuff love, I also recognize a blasting when I receive it.

It's all good, I will stick and learn, continue to train my balls off. I have goals and want to reach them, they are completely attainable with the correct education and expertise.

Like I said, being here I have seen a whole NEW LEVEL of education. And you guys deserve credit, there is no doubt about it!!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jarheadx

I recognize tuff love, I also recognize a blasting when I receive it.

It's all good, I will stick and learn, continue to train my balls off. I have goals and want to reach them, they are completely attainable with the correct education and expertise.

Like I said, being here I have seen a whole NEW LEVEL of education. And you guys deserve credit, there is no doubt about it!!!

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man i hope u dont think im blasting u... :?:

Nah. The one guy who made it sound like I was a wreckless POS was blasting a bit, possibly frustration from an under-educated pupil.

It wasn't like that. Just didn't know about the forum till a couple days ago, already got the gear and was excited to get the ball rolling. You guys are much more methodical/preparing and scientific than the others that I have spoke with. You approach this as a true learning experience, not just a meathead throwdown which is now the impression that I get from my last educators.

It's cool what you guys have accomplished. I will continue to read and learn the proper way to use the product and be a better and safer individual because of it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jarheadx

Nah. The one guy who made it sound like I was a wreckless POS was blasting a bit, possibly frustration from an under-educated pupil.

It wasn't like that. Just didn't know about the forum till a couple days ago, already got the gear and was excited to get the ball rolling. You guys are much more methodical/preparing and scientific than the others that I have spoke with. You approach this as a true learning experience, not just a meathead throwdown which is now the impression that I get from my last educators.

It's cool what you guys have accomplished. I will continue to read and learn the proper way to use the product and be a better and safer individual because of it.

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aye just remember keep it simple and slow
and patience is the MOST IMPORTANT ATTRIBUTE one can posses