Suggestion for a novice cycle

**J-Dogg** · 10-22-2001, 02:22 PM

6'
190 lbs
16-17% BF
21 years old

Lots of lifting experience, little gear experience.

Looking to gain solid lbs, with out retaining 40 gallons of water.
Able to loose some solid BF % also.

Would preffer somthing i can stack with Fina. Dosage, and kind of gear? Then I'll start more research.

Thanks a ton guys.

**dumbells101** · 10-22-2001, 02:28 PM

Little gear experience? define...and explain " Lots of lifting experience". How long consistently have you been training. What kind of gains have you made thus far? What kind of goals do you have...short and long term? See it's hard to make gains and lose bodyfat at the same time. That's usually not recommended either. I would say let's get your bodyfat down to around 12 and work from there. waiting for your info...

**Cynical** · 10-22-2001, 07:22 PM

^ bump i wanna help him out but im not knoledgeable enough to know the best cycle for what he wants at all, ill leave that to mike or cycle or someone who knows more ab all the stuff out there

**J-Dogg** · 10-22-2001, 11:11 PM

oh sorry for the slow reply guys.

I'v been lifting seince I was 15, started out with wieght training in high school. I learned alot from my friend, who compeated in body building while in high school. He actually won Mr.Teen Michigan when he was 16 (all natural), wish I had his genetics...

I learned most of my lifting from him, Trainers at my gym and classes.

Its really hard to tell my gains, as i'm only 21, and took the last year off

When i started lifting seriously (16 years old) i was 140lbs. I lifted 5 days a week w/ my friends (one was the guy above). Worked out good, he came and woke me up and MADE me go. His motivation was amazing. When i was 19 i was up to 196 lbs and lean. Hard to tell what was from lifting, and what i put on natrualy just cause of growing. I took a small break (few months) and started lifting again before spring break (same year) while on a cycle of fina, I got up to 212 lbs, and was a pretty lean 204 after i burned down after that cycle.

**J-Dogg** · 10-22-2001, 11:13 PM

Also, guys ignore my awfull gramar. WHen i type on a forum, its a cobbled mess cause i almost never proof read or think, and i'm way to lazy to run a damm spell check :P

I pretty much toss down what ever is going though my head, even if it does not make sense...

**dumbells101** · 10-23-2001, 06:20 AM

IMO take a while, train hard and eat well. Like I said before you can make great gains for a while at your age. Naturally with creatine and maybe some andro you'll be surprised at the gains in strength and fat loss you can make. Be sure to get at least 1.5 grams of protein per pound of lean body mass and add glutamine to your diet for recovery (I like to use it before bed). Take a multi, and add some EFA's to your diet. I like to buy EFA's oil and add it to my shakes a couple times a day. See what kind of progress you can make over the next 6 months or so and then re-evaluate.

**Morg** · 10-23-2001, 06:50 AM

while i tend to agree wit Dumbbells,im gonna give you a cycle i wish i did instead of the generic sust deca cycle(not that it didnt work well for me but...)i would try this 150mg,prop every other day(eod)100mg,EQ eod for 12 weeks,with 30 mgs d-bol for the 1st 6 weeks(with 1000 mgs of milkthistle ed for the liver),3 days after last inject start clomid 50 mgs a day for 1 week then 100mgs eod for 1 week then 50 mgs ed for 1 week,and either run arimidex the entire cycle(.25 ed) or have nolvadex on hand in case of gyno symtems.....the reason i didnt run this cycle was cause i was worried about my tolerance for needles,plain and simple i was scared of the dart,well let me tell you there is nothing to fear about injects,i actually look forward to them now,lol,...take in about 5000 cals with about 300g's of protien,and dont be afraid to eat any thing you want,pizza, burgers,taco bell,get them calories the best you can,cause its hard to get 5k cals from totally clean food,and oh yeah try and get at least 8 hours sleep every night and stay away from achohal

**pureanger** · 10-23-2001, 08:09 AM

Run your cycle like this
test of your choice cyp,prop,sust vet test any thing you can get 500mg per day remember if you run cyp or prop split you 500mg up twice a week because of the half life.
equip 600 mg a week just one hot per week due to the fact it has a long half life
Dbal 40-50mg per day run it the first four weks of you cycle
Clomid therapy start two weeks after you last shot becasue the test and equip will take that long to taper itself out of your body
run it 50mg ed for the first week 100mg ed for the second week and then the third week run 50ed
Do not run the cycle longer than 10 weeks since your new to AS run it 8 weeks maybe ten

**dumbells101** · 10-23-2001, 08:14 AM

Let's not forget what the boy is asking about. Goal is to "lose some solid bodyfat". What you guys are recommending is great to put on 25 lbs but won't drop his fat. Can't do both and especially at 5000 calories a day.

J-Dogg-trust me...cut your bodyfat first!

**Morg** · 10-23-2001, 08:20 AM

ok,so instead of d-bol use winny tabs 50 mgs ed for 6 weeks,and take in 3500 cals,but try and keep the protien near 300g's,and shit ,throw some tren in there with the EQ and prop,eh, take it or leave it,Morg

**pureanger** · 10-23-2001, 09:00 AM

Fina Equip and winny tabs

**dumbells101** · 10-23-2001, 09:34 AM

Fina and Winny...First of all Fina as I understand can be pretty harmful to the kidneys, and though can be good for bodyfat loss should not be used for more than 4-6 weeks. Though it can be good for bodyfat loss if you're mixing it with DMSO & Dist. H2O why not just use Primo and Winny. That's much easier on the body and for a first time gear user.

Again I say...WAIT a while.

**pureanger** · 10-23-2001, 09:38 AM

If were going with a safe cycle how about deca and primo. either way you look at it there is only varying degrees of safeness.
You wanna lose weight stack clen . winnie and fina if you take anything out of the stack replace winny with primo a little safer... and instead of dmso it brew a kit for the fina

**J-Dogg** · 10-23-2001, 01:23 PM

The main reason i want to keep using fina is because of the low leagal risk.

Also, what measures should i take to keep my body healthy, kidneys most improtant.

On my last cycle I drank lots of water, 1 1/2 to 2 gallons a day. Just to keep flushing out my body.

For me, leagal rist out wieghs health risk.

What about stacking some Ephedrine with some Fin?

I'm already dieting with very good results, very good.
40-60 grams of carbs a day.
200-300 grams of protien.
10-20 grams of fat
Small meals ever 3-3.5 hours
Lots of water
wieght training/jogging.

**dumbells101** · 10-23-2001, 01:44 PM

How about keep up the good diet, and use the ephedrine/caffine/aspirin stack and leave the fina for now until you get all the info you need, all the gear you need and then start you cycle. Please be careful Bro.

**J-Dogg** · 10-23-2001, 04:21 PM

I'm thinking that is the route i will take now. And thanks for your concern bro, really appricate it.

I'm gonna diet down, natural right now, and take some ephedrine/caffine/aspirin to help that along. When I'm down below 10% I might start a cycle of fina to gain some bulk.

I'll take as many safty measures that i can think of. I know of the thrislemilk, and drinking lots of water. Any other advise for when i start the fina?

**J-Dogg** · 10-23-2001, 04:23 PM

btw dumbells,

in your opion how long should i wait?

Till my body is more mature? i know you don't reach muscle maturity till your in your 30's.

Or just till i have more gear experince?

**pureanger** · 10-23-2001, 05:16 PM

No need to wait that long its all how safe you wanna be

**Gonna Be HUGE** · 10-23-2001, 08:46 PM

Bro, I don't think you really have to wait maturity-wise. Hell I started my first cycle when I was 20. But you should wait until you know exactly what you are doing before starting. I think that's what everyone means.

I know I've screwed up cycles because I didn't have everything planned out. I think it is very possible to lose bf and build muscle. You won't gain 25lbs and drop 10% or anything but you can do both if you run a lot of good test.

I prefer Test Prop for this purpose because you don't hold much water. Just keep the cals around 3000 or so and eat around 300-400g protein. You will actually harden up a lot and lean out some. Especially if you stack some Winny with it. And some clen .

I guess all-together I would say.... do more research. But if you need a good stack to get stronger, bigger, and leaner then you could try something like this:

Fina wks 1-8
Test Prop wks 1-8 at 100mg ed or eod
Clen wks 1,2,5,6
Winny wks 4-8 at 25-50mg ed

That should get you where you wanna be. Both build some size and strength and drop a little bf while your at it.

Peace

**PaPaPumP** · 10-23-2001, 09:32 PM

I agree with Gonnabe. It's your choice to do AS, and when to start is also up to you. All we can do is guide you through, like the bros are doing above. I'm just saying in my opinion is 2 years hardcore training with at least 3-4 overall training years. And my opinion of the age to start at is when you legally become an adult. Once you become an adult, you have to learn to make your own decisions. But whatever you choose, be safe, and do it right...and you should have no problems!

**dumbells101** · 10-24-2001, 04:27 AM

J-Dogg- Everyone is different but I would say get your bodyfat down to a point where you're happy with it, then train for a while and see what kinds of gains you can make. If you're not happy with your progress then re-evaluate your training and nutrition. in the mean time you can do all the research you need on different types of gear and make inteligent choices for yourself. Plus you'll be totally prepared.