Anyone use toremifene with tren

**Merc..** · 06-19-2006, 11:16 PM

I was wondering if anyone used toremifene will using tren ( with test of course lol). Nolva will increase PgR in breast tissue so is a no no while using tren( it will increase receptors and give trens metabolites more to bind to) Anyways toremifene does not see to have the same effect on PgR as nolva. Here is a study that shows it has minimal effect on PgR.

Cancer. 1990 Dec 1;66(11):2264-9. Related Articles, Links

Predictive value of tumor estrogen and progesterone receptor levels in postmenopausal women with advanced breast cancer treated with toremifene.

Valavaara R, Tuominen J, Johansson R.

Department of Radiotherapy, University of Turku, Finland.

The predictive value of estrogen receptor (ER) concentrations was evaluated in a group of 113 postmenopausal patients with estrogen-receptor-positive (ER greater than 7 fmol/mg protein) advanced breast cancer. In 103 patients, tumors were also sampled for progesterone receptor (PgR) determination. All patients were treated with toremifene, a novel antiestrogen, 60 mg daily. The median ER in 51 responders was 78 fmol/mg protein, and in 62 nonresponders, 51 fmol/mg protein; the median PgR levels were 40 and 37 fmol/mg protein, respectively. The response rate in patients with ER less than 50 fmol/mg protein was 38%, and 51% in the group with ER greater than 50 fmol/mg protein (not significant [NS]). The response rate in patients with PgR less than 10 fmol/mg protein was 42%, and in patients with greater than 10 fmol/mg protein, 44%. The duration of response in patients with ER greater than 50 fmol/mg protein was significantly longer than with lower ER levels (P = 0.002). PgR was not associated with the duration of response. In Cox's multiple regression analysis, ER was an independent prognostic factor (P = 0.005) for response duration. Thus, the ER concentration of tumor tissue predicts the duration of response but not the response rate to toremifene in patients with advanced breast cancer. The PgR status does not predict the response rate or the duration of response.............

I always use letro and caber but was wondering if the tore would be something to also look into while using tren. Also maybe if still getting gyno symptoms while using letro and caber could toremifene be a way to combat it (using tren).. I have been researching this and wanted some feedback form you guys..

**Merc..** · 06-19-2006, 11:50 PM

bump??

**C_Bino** · 06-20-2006, 12:15 AM

I have been looking into this more lately as well. I noticed your study was based out of Finland. I found a really good one out of finland as well on progesterone and the use of tamoxifen and toremifene in the treatment of breast cancer etc. Toremifene was actually first synthesized in Finland in 1981 so they are quite proud LOL.

In my searching I have found that toremifene doesnt regulate progesterone receptors, so you may be on to something here but I have never used it and cant be sure as to how effective it will be. Also it is much weaker than tamoxifen (which it was derived from) so you will have to take a larger dose.

You could always give it a try and keep letro on hand in case.

**Merc..** · 06-20-2006, 12:17 AM

Originally Posted by C_Bino

I have been looking into this more lately as well. I noticed your study was based out of Finland. I found a really good one out of finland as well on progesterone and the use of tamoxifen and toremifene in the treatment of breast cancer etc. Toremifene was actually first synthesized in Finland in 1981 so they are quite proud LOL.

In my searching I have found that toremifene doesnt regulate progesterone receptors, so you may be on to something here but I have never used it and cant be sure as to how effective it will be. Also it is much weaker than tamoxifen (which it was derived from) so you will have to take a larger dose.

You could always give it a try and keep letro on hand in case.

Thanks buddy !!

***BajanBastard*** · 06-20-2006, 12:19 AM

Tore+letro= ultimate gyno destroyer.

**Merc..** · 06-20-2006, 12:24 AM

Thanks Big K.. Big K has been helping me on my research on this also so BIG props to Big K LOL!!!!!

**Merc..** · 06-20-2006, 12:22 PM

Bump for anyone who has used tore with tren before !!

***BajanBastard*** · 06-20-2006, 01:29 PM

Tore is so 'new' that i highly doubt you'll find anyone.

**Merc..** · 06-20-2006, 06:58 PM

Originally Posted by big k.l.g

Tore is so 'new' that i highly doubt you'll find anyone.

Good point !!!!!

**Merc..** · 08-05-2007, 09:04 PM

This is an very old thread of mine but wanted to get any feedback on toremifene with tren . Would it cause the same PgR increase like nolva and give more for the metoblites to bind to thus increasing chances of gyno or would it be a good alternitive to nolva while using tren ?? Anyfeed back guys ?? Thanks

Merc !!!!

**Merc..** · 08-05-2007, 09:30 PM

Has anyone used tore with tren ?????

**Schmidty** · 08-06-2007, 09:19 AM

I used the torm the day aster my last shot of tren and i felt ok. About 2 weeks later i feel fully recovered.
torm 60mg ed
aromison 25mg ed

**Merc..** · 08-06-2007, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by Schmidty

I used the torm the day aster my last shot of tren and i felt ok. About 2 weeks later i feel fully recovered.
torm 60mg ed
aromison 25mg ed

Thanks for the feedback Schmidty .... Thoughts on using tore instead of nolva( cant use nolva do to the increase in PgR) while on a tren cycle ... I have been researching this but cant find a conclusive answer on if tore has the same effects on PgR that nolva does... Anyone??????? Tore May be a nice alternative when using tren if you dont want to use an AI ?????

**Kratos** · 08-06-2007, 12:51 PM

Do you have a study that shows toremifene does not up-regulate the progesterone receptor in the same way as nolvadex ? I don't believe the study posted does that. The main advantage to torm for our uses is that in rat studies it isn't hepatocarcinogenic where nolvadex is. If you look at the molecular structures they are so similar, I have not seen it proposed the two would behave dissimilar in regard to receptor expression.

**Kratos** · 08-06-2007, 01:24 PM

The PgR gene is an estrogen-regulated gene , so drugs with estrogenic activity will increase its expression. Accordingly, tamoxifen has been shown to increase PgR levels. All SERMs discovered to date show some degree of partial agonist activity.

**Merc..** · 08-06-2007, 03:41 PM

Originally Posted by Kratos

The PgR gene is an estrogen-regulated gene , so drugs with estrogenic activity will increase its expression. Accordingly, tamoxifen has been shown to increase PgR levels. All SERMs discovered to date show some degree of partial agonist activity.

Some degree yes !! But It does seem that tore would have only a very minimal effects on PgR !!!!

**Swifto** · 08-06-2007, 03:52 PM

Try it and see. Studies are a good base, but often dont lead to real world results. What effects one, may not effect another.

I'd choose personal experience over a study.

I think some of use get to caught up on studies sometimes.

**Swifto** · 08-06-2007, 03:57 PM

I believe Tamox is the strongest of the SERM's for fighting gyno (most active in breat tissue).

**x_moe** · 08-06-2007, 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by Swifto

I believe Tamox is the strongest of the SERM's for fighting gyno (most active in breat tissue).

ya but if it was used with tren or deca wont it make a gyno even worst

**RobbieG** · 08-06-2007, 04:40 PM

My powder source did carry toremifene, but he´s Chinese.. so he ain't shipping the green's any more

**domeyeahaigh** · 08-06-2007, 05:22 PM

keep in mind toremifene is a derivative of tamox

**Merc..** · 08-06-2007, 05:27 PM

Originally Posted by christopherallen

keep in mind toremifene is a derivative of tamox

Yes !!!!!!!

**Swifto** · 08-07-2007, 03:16 AM

Originally Posted by x_moe

ya but if it was used with tren or deca wont it make a gyno even worst

There are no studies stating it will definitely, but due to it being so closely structurally to Tamox its possible.

But my point is some user's use Tamox and 19-Nor's and never run into problems, even at high doses.

There shouldnt really be a need for a SERM with a 19-Nor anyhow. If your cycles was planned enough and you ran Letro and/or Caber, I dont see you then running into problems.

Try it and see. Your results may vary greatly to someone elses.

**Merc..** · 08-07-2007, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by Swifto

There are no studies stating it will definitely, but due to it being so closely structurally to Tamox its possible.

But my point is some user's use Tamox and 19-Nor's and never run into problems, even at high doses.

There shouldnt really be a need for a SERM with a 19-Nor anyhow. If your cycles was planned enough and you ran Letro and/or Caber, I dont see you then running into problems.

Try it and see. Your results may vary greatly to someone elses.

When I originally posted this it was due to a high amount of people telling me they are having problems with progest/estro problems and for some reason or another was having bad sides using letro and or Caber and was looking into an alternative while using a 19 nor and me and Big Klg were do some research on this as well as some other things . I agree it does effect everyone different and its true some dont run into problems when using nolva with a 19 nor ... You are also right that in most cases there is no need for a SERM with a 19 nor .