I just got bad new from doctor and ned advice

[chinups]

So I was taking tbol/anavar and I wen to the doctor and got my liver values taking. I mean I am off now for about 2-3 weeks but my values are shot and i am freaking out. I been drinking a bit not much pretty much casually (its summer). I only drink beers which obviously I stopped. I am going to start taking alot of milk thistle and liv 52 as well hopefully today but like I said my values are shot and shot in a big way. I am actaully nevervous, talked asked me if I use the special stuff too, wink wink. I am going to come clean tuesday when I got for my x rays on my liver as he suggest. Below I am list my values can you guys help me?? Thanks


FYI all other blodd work was fine just liv values were high

liver values sgot (normal is 40)162, spgt (normal is 55) 377

WTF

[Ufa]

What was your cycle like. Were you taking any vitamins Liv.52, milk thistle,
drinking.

How long after cycle did you get blood work?

[Bigmax]

Dude are you on any other meds???..how much is casual driniking????

[chinups]

Wkend beer drinking, no hard liquor

I did like 4-5 wk anavar 50mg tbol 50 mg

I was taking milk thistle but in the big mix that doesn't do too too much to be honest. Most believe milk thistle is a farse, although i do take it. I was taking like 500 mg a day maybe bit more

[chinups]

Is there any vets or mods that can speficially tell me about these values????? The numbers and is there anyone else that had this experience?

[Ufa]

The good news is that the liver is the most forgiving organ in the body. You know what caused it. Anvar is the worst oral for liver. Beer does not help either. You might get back to normal by living a clean life. No beer, no
aas. No tyleno, no recreational stuff. Increase milk thistle to at least 1,000
add Liv.52. Take multivitamins. Get retested in every month. Good chance
you will pull throught.

Your values are horrific.

Mistake ---about Anvar. I was thinking Anadrol (oxymetholone) Anvar is
cool I personally take 50mg daily.

[guest589745]

Damn, has me worried about my next cycle.


I dont think anavar is the worste oral for the liver though. But it wont help it.

[chinups]

Well I plan on not drinking or taking anything.

Stopping at store and getting some liv 52, I have milk thistle
I don't think I need a gram a day of milk thistle?

you say might?????? WTF-you serious? And good chagne I will pull through??? do you have crudentials to tell me that? Not being a dick but your kinda scaring me man............no flame...Thanks for response

My doc said I was in no danger but he would like to do more test to see if there is any cause of concern

[guest589745]

Anvar is the worst oral for liver.

Hookers anavar profile:
"Although Anavar is an oral steroid, and has been alpha-alkylated to survive oral ingestion and the first pass through the liver, it’s still relatively mild in that respect too..., the unique chemical configuration of oxandrolone both confers a resistance to liver metabolism as well as noticable anabolic activity. It would also appear that Anavar appears not to exhibit the serious hepatotoxic effects (jaundice, cholestatic hepatitis, peliosis hepatis, hyperplasias and neoplasms) typically attributed to the C17alpha-alkylated AASs. (17) Anavar has even been used successfully in some studies to heal cutaneous wounds (7), or to improve respiratory function (18)."

[guest589745]

Well I plan on not drinking or taking anything.

Shouldnt have drank in the first place bro.

Stopping at store and getting some liv 52, I have milk thistle
I don't think I need a gram a day of milk thistle?

I hope you dont think you need this, for the right reasons.

My doc said I was in no danger but he would like to do more test to see if there is any cause of concern

Well there ya go, you arent gonna die but, you obviously need to be more careful and keep an eye on this. Hope you learned a lesson.

[chinups]

Honestly the only lesson for me is that taking anavar and tbol together are a no no. There is no way that drinking alone 1 or 2 times elevated my levels this bad. I was not drinking for like the entire cycle. Lets not get it twisted I wasn't out boozing non stop while I was on, I was clean living as I always do. Bottom line is can anyone tell me specific things about this or at least tell me something positive? Maybe someone had tests done with similiar results. no?

[Random]

Geez man, thats sucks...personally i never drink, and certainly wouldnt drink while using an oral product...i think var can affect some people more than others...mine were slightly elevated after my var cycle, but still not bad at all, i used milk thistle the whole time and along with a liver detox....how long was your cycle?

[chinups]

4-5 wks then I came off because I wanted to end early

I jsut really want someone with experience to say something like
"you will never recoop"
"clean living and some time you will be fine"

I know how we can all pretend we are experts and all but I suppose I really am looking for someone with epxerience. one of our vets or something

I do appreciate the responses guys but this got me bugged.

[Ufa]

Sorry about the Anvar comment.----- I take 50 mg Anvar daily. It's a small
amount. I some how was thinking Anadrol (oxymetholone).

I was doing some research. It's hard to find similiar situations. Main thing is
you were smart enough to get blood tested. When the cause is found and
stopped things reverse. I think it is important to get blood work done every month to know where you stand. When Sgot & Spgt start to fall quickly you will have less stress and feel like a new man.

This is a hard lesson for any one. Let me be the first to wish you a speedy recovery.

[chinups]

Thanks dude. I am going to just diet hard get healthy

I have some friends who use and when they get blood work its normal for them to be elevated like this. Just hope when he does scans everything is ok. I will wait 1 month and get blood done again

This stinks

[chinups]

I also just remembered something. I started ECA stack that day too. Anything with that?

[PRAMANIS]

I had the same liver value problems you have after a Methyl-1 Test cycle. I went and had a blood test less than a week after the cycle and my liver values were through the roof. My doctor had me come back a week later for another blood test and they were even higher. (I did not drink beer or coffee, no tylenol, no caffiene, and no other orals through the entire cycle). My doctor even sent me for an MRI of my liver and it came back normal. Trust me your liver values will be back to normal in around 1 month. Take 1G of milk thisle and drink 1 gallon of water a day to flush out your system. Do not drink any alcohol or any form of caffiene even iced tea and don't stick any pills in your mouth other than the milk thisle for at least a month. Relax you will be fine!!!

[Ufa]

ECA could not have helped. Next time you go you might be pleasantly surprised. If your friends have had the same elevated levels you should
talk to them. Find out how fast they went down.

Like I said the liver is the most forgiving organ. It even regrows.

Stress will mess you up big time also. Sleep is a healer. I'd forget the
ECA stacks. Get well before you party. Take care and PM me any time.

[chinups]

Alright boys!!

Thanks

Off to get healthy. I can see it now at the jersey shore all my boys order liquor and I order a shirley temple. NICE

[Smart@$$]

I remember about a year ago you were taking winny only and saying you could take it for an extended time without recourse. Looks like maybe you could have been doing damage all along. This is not your first or even second all oral cycle, from what you have said.

[chinups]

Well I never combined these two. I have taking all oral dbol/winny and had blood work done with no ill sides affects. I am resposible and not afraid of my doctor so this is the only time with a cycle that I have had this issue. And I never said you should take winny for extended period of time, maybe anavar never winny. No more then 6 wks or so which I wouldn't consider extended

Looks like you may not know what you are talking about. no?

[Smart@$$]

Well I never combined these two. I have taking all oral dbol/winny and had blood work done with no ill sides affects. I am resposible and not afraid of my doctor so this is the only time with a cycle that I have had this issue. And I never said you should take winny for extended period of time, maybe anavar never winny. No more then 6 wks or so which I wouldn't consider extended

Looks like you may not know what you are talking about. no?

I know you have said you take winny only cycle. I guess your cycles are no more than 6 wks.

[chinups]

I never took winny only, sorry but you are misinformed. If you believe that or seen that then bring it up. I have taking dbol with winny like 4 yrs ago and did them both very lightly. I have said you can see results with winny only. But in fact I have never taken winny only. But thanks for your inaccurate information in my thread about my liver and bad liver values. Do you have anything useful for me? If not then go break someone else's balls

[magic32]

I had the same liver value problems you have after a Methyl-1 Test cycle. I went and had a blood test less than a week after the cycle and my liver values were through the roof. My doctor had me come back a week later for another blood test and they were even higher. (I did not drink beer or coffee, no tylenol, no caffiene, and no other orals through the entire cycle). My doctor even sent me for an MRI of my liver and it came back normal. Trust me your liver values will be back to normal in around 1 month. Take 1G of milk thisle and drink 1 gallon of water a day to flush out your system. Do not drink any alcohol or any form of caffiene even iced tea and don't stick any pills in your mouth other than the milk thisle for at least a month. Relax you will be fine!!!

Exactly!

I'm not a mod but I'll weigh in...

Damn, has me worried about my next cycle.
I dont think anavar is the worste oral for the liver though. But it wont help it.

Don't be.

This problem is on a chemical level. These factors are driven largely by cholesterol’s interaction with vitamins and hormones. Orals TEMPORARILY retard these interactions causing changes in both cholesterol levels and the ratios that affect normalcy. These levels escalate suddenly, and sporadically (hence PRAMANIS' increase at the second measuring) when orals are introduced. Remember the liver already has a full-time job, now you’re adding a part-time one to that. But who among us can’t handle a part-time gig in limited duration. There’s no reason to be alarmed. In short…

A high SGPT means that there is an excess of toxins, sugar and proteins in his bloodstream. The first is supposed to be captured by the lymph ducts, and the other two stored in the liver, but this requires sufficient amounts of vitamins A & D (the primary binders) to paralyze them for transport. The lack of ‘A’ conversion is again reflected in the improper ratios mentioned above. I'd increase ‘A’ consumption by about 2000 IU's ED and get some sun (D), in hopes of creating a surplus that might aid absorption.

A high SGOT means his cholesterol isn’t converting properly to sex hormones (test, estro, and progestero). One or all are too low. This is often thrown off due to low natty and the body’s inability to register synthetic Test in its equation. But in a non-Test cycle, cholesterol is the culprit and though a 50/50 Var and Tbol stack for 5wks will cause spikes none of them are hazardous, and all are reversible.

As the legendary Shortie would say…just my $.02

M.

[chinups]

Exactly!

I'm not a mod but I'll weigh in...

Don't be.

This problem is on a chemical level. These factors are driven largely by cholesterol’s interaction with vitamins and hormones. Orals TEMPORARILY retard these interactions causing changes in both cholesterol levels and the ratios that affect normalcy. These levels escalate suddenly, and sporadically (hence PRAMANIS' increase at the second measuring) when orals are introduced. Remember the liver already has a full-time job, now you’re adding a part-time one to that. But who among us can’t handle a part-time gig in limited duration. There’s no reason to be alarmed. In short…

A high SGPT means that there is an excess of toxins, sugar and proteins in his bloodstream. The first is supposed to be captured by the lymph ducts, and the other two stored in the liver, but this requires sufficient amounts of vitamins A & D (the primary binders) to paralyze them for transport. The lack of ‘A’ conversion is again reflected in the improper ratios mentioned above. I'd increase ‘A’ consumption by about 2000 IU's ED and get some sun (D), in hopes of creating a surplus that might aid absorption.

A high SGOT means his cholesterol isn’t converting properly to sex hormones (test, estro, and progestero). One or all are too low. This is often thrown off due to low natty and the body’s inability to register synthetic Test in its equation. But in a non-Test cycle, cholesterol is the culprit and though a 50/50 Var and Tbol stack for 5wks will cause spikes none of them are hazardous, and all are reversible.

As the legendary Shortie would say…just my $.02

M.

EXACTLY what I was looking for

Question for you. Does that mean my test levels are low??

Thanks for the input. I will be back to norm in 6 weeks. I will make that happen

[Smart@$$]

I never took winny only, sorry but you are misinformed. If you believe that or seen that then bring it up. I have taking dbol with winny like 4 yrs ago and did them both very lightly. I have said you can see results with winny only. But in fact I have never taken winny only. But thanks for your inaccurate information in my thread about my liver and bad liver values. Do you have anything useful for me? If not then go break someone else's balls

Not breaking your balls, I just thought if someone advocates winny only and says it works then maybe just maybe they say that through experience. Obviously you were taking a position on a thread you really shouldnt have.

I apologize that I believed you were talking through experience.

Bygones be bygones... Along with the liv52 and milkthistle, B-6 and dandelion(drink alot of water) is said to have a good synergistic effect. I dont have the link but if you google liver protection or liver regeneration with the word vitamins or holistic these things do come up.

[magic32]

EXACTLY what I was looking for

Question for you. Does that mean my test levels are low??

Thanks for the input. I will be back to norm in 6 weeks. I will make that happen

Permit me to clarify something. Are you on Test or just Var/Tbol?

M.

[Smart@$$]

Permit me to clarify something. Are you on Test or just Var/Tbol?

M.

Orals only bro

[chinups]

My cycle was

dbol 25 mg ed for 1-4
winstrol 3-7 50 mg eod

Thus making me a little of both. I could not say that I did a all winny cycle nor could I say I did all dbol. I can say for the 3 wks I took winny alone I saw huge pumps and went has high as 150 pound dumbells which was a huge strength increase for me. So I think I can go out on a limb and say winny alone will show results just nothing major like say a test cycle. PPL tend to think modest gains are no gains, modest if fine by me.

My avatar is me after that cycle. Now if my liver is shot because of it I don't think so because my values were fine after that. I had a reaction this time and maybe I went to the 17aa one too many times but now it will be corrected, I guess my pill popping 17aa ass will have to stop.

[magic32]

Orals only bro

That's the way I read it. Now I see you're referring to the conversion to sex hormones. Possibly, but that would merely be a byproduct not the catalyst.

M.

[magic32]

How much time elapsed between the Dbol/Winny cycle and the Var/Tbol one?

M.

[chinups]

4 years maybe longer

[magic32]

Hope you ran PCT. Don't treat orals like second class citizens, respect them as with all gear. You'll be fine.

M.

[Homeguard]

It is quite important to remember that no test is completely accurate and one test is a snapshot of your health at the time it was taken. It is good practice to do a number or series of tests over time to allow the doctor, nurse or specialist to examine a trend in your results, especially if the tests detect anything abnormal.


The liver function test is actually a number of parts, each looking at different properties of your blood, which indirectly can tell you something about how the liver is working. The most common parts to the test you may have are:


Alanine Aminotransferase (ALT)


Aspartarte Aminotransferase (AST)


Alkaline Phosphatase (ALP)


Gamma-Glutamyl Transferase (GGT or "Gamma GT")


Bilirubin


Albumin


Clotting Studies (Prothrombin Time)
Each of these parts have results assigned to them in numbers and values. Each laboratory in the UK provides a "normal value" or "reference value" to the test, which can give the doctor, nurse or specialist a guide as to whether or not your test is in the average for normal function or is outside of the normal range and may be abnormal. How abnormal can be assumed from how low or more often high the result is below or above the normal range.

Due to the differences in normal range for different laboratories it can be difficult to compare or comment on individual test results specifically. This is due to the different brand of tests that they use from different manufacturers and how these are interpreted. There are international normal ranges that all doctors, nurses and specialists will be familiar with as an approximate guide.

Interestingly the normal values for liver function tests will vary between men and women, at different times of the day and will change as you get older.This needs to be recognised when a series of tests are performed over time and they should preferably be performed in a predictable routine to reduce the variation over time (for example always in the morning or the afternoon, but consistently).

Different diseases of the liver will cause differing types of damage and affect liver function tests accordingly. It can be possible to give an idea of which disease may be suspected from a liver function test, but these tests are not the absolute way of diagnosing liver disease. They are helpful, but only part of the picture. They are also useful for monitoring someone with liver disease, but are not always accurate.

It is well known in some liver diseases that the liver function test does not accurately portray the extent of inflammation or fibrosis, which can be misinterpreted as suggesting that the liver may be in better condition than it is. This does not apply to the majority of people living with liver disease, but it should be remembered.

Usually the liver function test gives an indication of the degree if inflammation and possibly either damage or change in the ability of the liver to work properly.

The ALT and AST provide an indication of the degree of inflammation as well as the possible causes.

Both ALP and Gamma GT increases can be suggestive of obstructive liver disease (e.g. in "cholestatic liver disease" when bile is not transported from the liver adequately due to obstruction of the bile duct. Gamma GT is also an indicator of alcohol usage.

Bilirubin increases are suggestive of liver disease, especially in disease of the bile ducts.

Albumin may decrease in chronic liver disease, particularly if it is worsening, though it may be decreased for other reasons, such as in protein deficiency (e.g. malnutrition).

Clotting studies may be suggestive of liver disease, especially worsening chronic liver disease if the Prothrombin Time is prolonged, as the liver is significantly involved in the normal clotting of blood.

All of the above can be affected by disorders and diseases that do not affect the liver directly and therefore further investigation is extremely important if any results are found to be outside of the normal range in a liver function test.

Hope this helps bro'

[magic32]

Homeguard - It is quite important to remember that no test is completely accurate and one test is a snapshot of your health at the time it was taken. It is good practice to do a number or series of tests over time to allow the doctor, nurse or specialist to examine a trend in your results, especially if the tests detect anything abnormal.

No they're very accurate, with regard to that moment in time, your aforementioned "snapshot".

The liver function test is actually a number of parts, each looking at different properties of your blood, which indirectly can tell you something about how the liver is working. The most common parts to the test you may have are:

No, they very directly tell you about how the specific chemicals are interacting, allowing you to isolate definitive problems.

M.

[Evolution-06]

I was drinking like a fish, 3-4 nights a week *6-8 bottles of beer. For around 1 year before I got my physical done earlier this year. My liver values came back normal to low end. Doctor was surprised especially with my intake. However, I have been diagnosed with High Blood pressure. Initially it was 150/120 and doctor prayed I had white coat syndrome. I blame this on the ECA stack.

Livers are tough, it will recover!

Chins is probably fine, he is going to be in top natural shape here soon! I can attest as we are playing in 2-3 more summer\fall basketball leagues.

Ain't nothing better than a few meatheads throwing the rock around.