I just don't get it.

**wheycasein** · 07-01-2006, 02:05 PM

I am on Pheraplex and Winstrol and have not made serious gains but I do feel quite lethargic with generally not great well being. Maybe its all in my head, but I have always found I feel best without taking steroids .

My diet is pretty good with around 250 grams of protein and about 300 grams of carbs with around 100 grams of fat. Spaced around 6 meals.

**themilkman_95901** · 07-01-2006, 02:12 PM

On a growing cycle I take 2 1/2 grams of protein and around 2 grams on a cutting cycle per lean muscle mass, unless your around 125 the protein doesn't seem high enough to me.

**jollygreenGIANT** · 07-01-2006, 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by wheycasein

I am on Pheraplex and Winstrol and have not made serious gains but I do feel quite lethargic with generally not great well being. Maybe its all in my head, but I have always found I feel best without taking steroids.

My diet is pretty good with around 250 grams of protein and about 300 grams of carbs with around 100 grams of fat. Spaced around 6 meals.

Then don't take steroids .

**shortie** · 07-01-2006, 02:24 PM

Get rid of the Pheraplex and use steroids -They are much safer than the horsecrap the supplement companies are pushing. Better yet-get off it all and figure out what a real first cycle should be.

**wheycasein** · 07-01-2006, 02:51 PM

But is there any reason in particular for the way I feel on what I`m on at the moment.
Also D-bol made me feel tired all the time.

Maybe I should just do test for 10 weeks.

**themilkman_95901** · 07-01-2006, 03:49 PM

Check your diet you might want to adjust and add to because you bodies drained because of lack of something.

**J*U*icEd** · 07-01-2006, 04:11 PM

your getting shut down when doin steroids .... u need to stop running these compounds such as d-bol and winstrol and run some test.... trust me ull feel great on that

**EcToMoRpHiAn** · 07-01-2006, 04:19 PM

Yeah, test should be the base compound for any cycle. You are feeling shitty because your natty test is getting shut down. What do you have planned for PCT?

**wheycasein** · 07-01-2006, 04:30 PM

I`m going to do Nolva and some Rebound XT.

Could do an AI, any suggestions?

Thing is I started on Superdrol and felt lethargic from the start, I think Test may be the answer.

Am I going to gain better being shut down on such mild gear, I`m only using 30mg of Phera and a touch of Winstrol (15mg to raise SHBG) or just training natural!?!? What about all these great gains on Phera?

I also have some Methyl Rage - Methyl DHT basically, would this help perk me up!!?

**shortie** · 07-01-2006, 09:37 PM

Originally Posted by wheycasein

I`m going to do Nolva and some Rebound XT.

Could do an AI, any suggestions?

Thing is I started on Superdrol and felt lethargic from the start, I think Test may be the answer. It ususally is-most of the shit the supp companies sell is dangerous and just anabolic enough to shut down your HTPA

Am I going to gain better being shut down on such mild gear, No, almost without exception you will gain better naturally than on snake oil I`m only using 30mg of Phera and a touch of Winstrol (15mg to raise SHBG)WTF??? or just training natural!?!? Go natural, when you are ready make the step up to the real deal. What about all these great gains on Phera?

I also have some Methyl Rage - Methyl DHT basically, would this help perk me up!!?

In case you hadn't noticed I really am no fan of OTC supps, but you might post this question in the supplement forum and get some less biased answers

Just my .02~

**Anabolios** · 07-01-2006, 09:46 PM

you say you feel better while off steroids ..then dont take em..simple that cycle is caca anyways

**fLgAtOr** · 07-01-2006, 09:58 PM

Originally Posted by wheycasein

I am on Pheraplex and Winstrol and have not made serious gains but I do feel quite lethargic with generally not great well being. Maybe its all in my head, but I have always found I feel best without taking steroids .

My diet is pretty good with around 250 grams of protein and about 300 grams of carbs with around 100 grams of fat. Spaced around 6 meals.

How long have you been using it?

Pheraplex didn't make me feel that great either. Didn't gain much and lacked the amazing sex drive that they proclaimed.

**timtim** · 07-02-2006, 06:10 AM

On a growing cycle I take 2 1/2 grams of protein and around 2 grams on a cutting cycle per lean muscle mass, unless your around 125 the protein doesn't seem high enough to me.

protein consumption is based on pounds of lean body mass not overall body weight. if the guy is carrying 160 to 170 pounds of lbm, his protein is fine especially since his other macros are in good alignment.

**themilkman_95901** · 07-04-2006, 01:35 AM

Tim thanks for catching that, I should have asked about body weight and body fat,I figured that growth was a factor because of the reference to serious gains and a repeat cycler because the reference to steriod use before, but if he is 170 with 15% body fat, and he was taking 1.75 gm per lean body mass he would be right at 252. I just know I go high with my protein and it works for me and on a growth cycle if I don't eat I'm dragging ass in the gym.