Short cycle advice gurus..need opinions.

[Toenail Juice Z]

Ok, this is my next cycle. I'm open to any suggestions, just don't flame me coz i'm taking deca with tren. I know the horror stories...(I will be injecting a weekly test injection.), and no I'm not worried about prolactin...I beleive this notion is overexaggerated.

Days 1-10 - Sustanon 250 ED (the Prop should help the kickstart, i'm not willing to take 17-AA's this time around).
Days 10-20 - Tren Hexa (Parabolan) 100mg ed + 200mg deca ed (+1 250mg test injection a week)
Days 20-30 - Tren Hexa (Parabolan) 100mg ed (+1 250mg test injection a week)
Days 30+ Clenbuterol together with Cytomel T3

PCT is in check with Clomid, HCG and Nolva at my disposal.
First day of PCT will start after the longest lasting steroid ester has been eliminated.

Obviously, i'm looking for lean mass gains with little water retention. I wouldn't go so far as to say I'm cutting.
Can I improve this cycle in any way?
Any suggestions & opinions will be greatly appreciated, and I will take all advices given into consideration.

[Toenail Juice Z]

I forgot to mention my stats.. I'm quite light standing at 5ft 11" at around 183 pounds. I have no idea about bf but by guessing I would say 12-15%

[AleX-69]

well allright i won't flame you cause you run deca with tren, but seriously, why would you run a cycle like this?

why do u want to run a short cycle? - quick recovery.. then ditch this cycle asap. Tren Hexa and Deca are both very supressive compounds. Moreover they have long esters attached to the target hormone. So with cycle termination at day 30 you would still have plenty of steroids floating around surpessing you even further.. PCT should be started 2-3 weeks after cycle termination in this case.
Longer esters should only be used for the first 10-14 days of a short cycle IMO.

if you dont have already read these threads plz. Almost everything you need to know about short cylces should be covered there.

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...teroids+health

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...ghlight=theory


http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...ight=explained

[themilkman_95901]

well honestly I believe this cycle is a bad idea, if you have to do a short one strecht it out a little more and go with straight test prop. Drop the para and go with the tren a and I wouldn't use two 19 nor. I think it is overkill instead add winny (tabs would be easier but if you are worried about the 17-a then inject it)

[juiceboxxx]

bad cycle. Like what the bros said above.

[AleX-69]

@juice

i really like your avatar bro!

[juiceboxxx]

@juice

i really like your avatar bro!

lol thanx bro....

go germany go

[themilkman_95901]

oh toenail I was thinking and I believe that promo tabs aren't 17-a and are would fall in the same place as winny. I think they even have a easter time because it an acetate.

[themilkman_95901]

correction) faster ester time than the injectable promo because it is acetate.

[Toenail Juice Z]

well allright i won't flame you cause you run deca with tren, but seriously, why would you run a cycle like this?

why do u want to run a short cycle? - quick recovery.. then ditch this cycle asap. Tren Hexa and Deca are both very supressive compounds. Moreover they have long esters attached to the target hormone. So with cycle termination at day 30 you would still have plenty of steroids floating around surpessing you even further.. PCT should be started 2-3 weeks after cycle termination in this case.
Longer esters should only be used for the first 10-14 days of a short cycle IMO.

if you dont have already read these threads plz. Almost everything you need to know about short cylces should be covered there.

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...teroids+health

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...ghlight=theory


http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...ight=explained

Have you ever tried a high dosage short cycle? They a hell of a lot better than the traditional cycles, (for me at least) and quicker cycles mean you recover quicker.

Ok, thanks, but what's so bad about the longer esters floating around as you said. I see this as an advantage, unless you saying the HCG & Clomid won't be enough to kickstart natural testosterone. Is this the point u are trying to make

and German guy, please elaborate. By saying bad cycle, it does not help.

[Toenail Juice Z]

has anyone read building the ultimate beast/Chemical Muscle Enhancement. These books explain clearly the benefits of short cycles. any opinions?

[AleX-69]

Ok, thanks, but what's so bad about the longer esters floating around as you said. I see this as an advantage, unless you saying the HCG & Clomid won't be enough to kickstart natural testosterone.

Well question is why do you want to do a short cycle? If your reasons are quick test recovery, lesser side effects, etc... it would be best to limit you short cycle to 28-30days at maximum. Reason is, after this time frame testicular athrophy begins and therefore it will be much harder for you to recover the longer you stretch out your cycle past the 28day mark...
What i would do - if you insists on using longer esters - Frontload them on cycle day -1 and use them until cycle day 14 at maximum.. due to the long esters the hormone will be in your body until the end of your cycle (day 28-30) and you can jump right into PCT. Moreover i would run an oral alongside the longer esterd injectables for the whole 28day period. T-bol would be a good choice. It is rather mild on the system, hardens u up and gives u nice gains..
On a side note i would get rid of deca in your cycle, as it is a very very supressive compound and it has been shown that it can inhibt your bodys on test production for up to 6 month. If you have to go with nadrolone at all use NPP.

If you have got any more specific questions plz let me know.

RG

[taiboxa]

i dont like it ..

[Toenail Juice Z]

Well question is why do you want to do a short cycle? If your reasons are quick test recovery, lesser side effects, etc... it would be best to limit you short cycle to 28-30days at maximum. Reason is, after this time frame testicular athrophy begins and therefore it will be much harder for you to recover the longer you stretch out your cycle past the 28day mark...
What i would do - if you insists on using longer esters - Frontload them on cycle day -1 and use them until cycle day 14 at maximum.. due to the long esters the hormone will be in your body until the end of your cycle (day 28-30) and you can jump right into PCT. Moreover i would run an oral alongside the longer esterd injectables for the whole 28day period. T-bol would be a good choice. It is rather mild on the system, hardens u up and gives u nice gains..
On a side note i would get rid of deca in your cycle, as it is a very very supressive compound and it has been shown that it can inhibt your bodys on test production for up to 6 month. If you have to go with nadrolone at all use NPP.

If you have got any more specific questions plz let me know.

RG

No, the reason I want to do another short (BURST) cycle is that it enables me to use large dosages, and gain large quantities of muscle in a very short period of time. I do not gain as well on longer cycles. I beleive shocking the body is the key. I have no scientific evidence to prove this, but the bottom line is I saw impressive results.

I have been advized by other bodybuilders that the traditional cycles are not as effective, and are misleading newbies.

I also said as soon as the last acting ester is eliminated I will start the PCT

This is my theory on short cycles:
Basically this is the cycle theory.

1.Adrogen Phase (all testerones,dianabol,anabolon etc)*
2.Anabolic Phase (GH,Insulin,T3,T4,creatine,etc)*
3.Catabolic Phase(Cytadren,proviron,Prohormones,Nolvadex,HCG,R emeron,etc)

In the 1st phase we have the androgens that prevail with a high Anabolic ratio

In the 2nd phase, the anabolics dominate and we try to keep cortisol at low levels

In the 3rd phase we try to keep the androgens low, while trying to keep cortisol at minimal levels, but in this phase we try to keep anabolics as high as possible.

We then start again with phase 1
(phase 2 basically cleanses your body and especially the liver)

Each phase lasts approx 25-30 days, (depends on what chemicals you decide to use).

Now about the chemicals you decide to use
Obviously each chemical has a different active life in the body. I believe (and correct me if i'm wrong) that the strongest part of the chemical inside your body is when it's at it's half life.
So lets say a steroids life is 20 days, it's strongest and most efective on day 10 (this day is what we must prolong)


I appreciate your advice, and would like to discuss this further.

[Duke of Earl]

I'm not a guru by a long stretch, but I love short cycles....
However - I'd ditch your cycle - long esters are a bad choice - I'd reccomend prop & tren acetate and I'd also add an oral ( I like tbol and / or var )
my last cycle was something like ( days )

1........Prop 300mg
2-14....Prop 150mg
1-18....Tbol 50mg
1-18....Var 40mg

19.....mild clomid & nolva PCT then 4 weeks off

I'm gonna add a little tren acetate & IGF for my next one

L8r

ps

I believe (and correct me if i'm wrong) that the strongest part of the chemical inside your body is when it's at it's half life.

this not the case - the half life is the time it takes to go from it's initial (max) concentration to half of that concentration.

[AleX-69]

No, the reason I want to do another short (BURST) cycle is that it enables me to use large dosages, and gain large quantities of muscle in a very short period of time. I do not gain as well on longer cycles. I beleive shocking the body is the key. I have no scientific evidence to prove this, but the bottom line is I saw impressive results.

ah i see your point now! You are right on all aspects here

This is my theory on short cycles:
Basically this is the cycle theory.

1.Adrogen Phase (all testerones,dianabol,anabolon etc)*
2.Anabolic Phase (GH,Insulin,T3,T4,creatine,etc)*
3.Catabolic Phase(Cytadren,proviron,Prohormones,Nolvadex,HCG,R emeron,etc)

In the 1st phase we have the androgens that prevail with a high Anabolic ratio

In the 2nd phase, the anabolics dominate and we try to keep cortisol at low levels

In the 3rd phase we try to keep the androgens low, while trying to keep cortisol at minimal levels, but in this phase we try to keep anabolics as high as possible.

We then start again with phase 1
(phase 2 basically cleanses your body and especially the liver)

Each phase lasts approx 25-30 days, (depends on what chemicals you decide to use).

Never heard of this approch honestly, but it might be working. Do you plan on using T3, LR3-IGF-1, HGH after the first period, or do you just want to do your regular PCT regimen?
Moreover i think the deca is a bit misplaced here. Deca is not a strong androgen whatsoever. I personaly would up the test and get rid of deca. tren is ok.

Now about the chemicals you decide to use
Obviously each chemical has a different active life in the body. I believe (and correct me if i'm wrong) that the strongest part of the chemical inside your body is when it's at it's half life.
So lets say a steroids life is 20 days, it's strongest and most efective on day 10 (this day is what we must prolong)
I appreciate your advice, and would like to discuss this further.

Well this is not correct... for example Testosterone Enantate has a half-life of approx. 6 days... Nevertheless highest blood concentration is achieved within 3 days of administartion. I have attached a graph which illustrates this.
In conclusion one could estimate that the hormone concentration is highest when T= 1/4 (half of the half life so to speak)

[AleX-69]

I'm not a guru by a long stretch, but I love short cycles....
However - I'd ditch your cycle - long esters are a bad choice - I'd reccomend prop & tren acetate and I'd also add an oral ( I like tbol and / or var )
my last cycle was something like ( days )

1........Prop 300mg
2-14....Prop 150mg
1-18....Tbol 50mg
1-18....Var 40mg

19.....mild clomid & nolva PCT then 4 weeks off

I'm gonna add a little tren acetate & IGF for my next one

L8r

nice one! even though i prefer 28days... but good to have another short cycle supporter around

[Toenail Juice Z]

I'm not a guru by a long stretch, but I love short cycles....
However - I'd ditch your cycle - long esters are a bad choice - I'd reccomend prop & tren acetate and I'd also add an oral ( I like tbol and / or var )
my last cycle was something like ( days )

1........Prop 300mg
2-14....Prop 150mg
1-18....Tbol 50mg
1-18....Var 40mg

19.....mild clomid & nolva PCT then 4 weeks off

I'm gonna add a little tren acetate & IGF for my next one

L8r

ps


this not the case - the half life is the time it takes to go from it's initial (max) concentration to half of that concentration.

hmm...point taken. Ditching the deca sounds sensible, but I still beleive the longer the ester the better, whatever the cycle.

Although nothing to do with roids, this is my theory...It's like the benzo xanax for example. It's effects only last a short period of time and regular administration is required. Why would I take xanax when I can take valium (diazepam) get the same results with it's effect lasting over 8 hours rather than 2 or 3 in xanax's case. Do you get my point.

I would only use short esters if I was going for a blood test/doping and I wanted to clean/eliminate any traces of the roid in my body. For me, the "recreational" user short esters are nothing more than useless.

[Toenail Juice Z]

ah i see your point now! You are right on all aspects here




Never heard of this approch honestly, but it might be working. Do you plan on using T3, LR3-IGF-1, HGH after the first period, or do you just want to do your regular PCT regimen?
Moreover i think the deca is a bit misplaced here. Deca is not a strong androgen whatsoever. I personaly would up the test and get rid of deca. tren is ok.



Well this is not correct... for example Testosterone Enantate has a half-life of approx. 6 days... Nevertheless highest blood concentration is achieved within 3 days of administartion. I have attached a graph which illustrates this.
I conclusion one could estimate that the hormone concentration is highest when T= 1/4 (half of the half life so to speak)

Thanks..I just learnt something new today!

At the moment, since I can't call myself an advanced bodybuilder, I will be doing the normal PCT regimen.

I know deca is a bit stupid, I just have this fondness or obsession for it since it exhibits a moderate lean muscle gain, (moderately androgenic/highly anabolic) with minimal water retention and is a classic steroid being one of the best all rounders IMO. I feel guilty not adding it to any cycle.
I also notice that gains made on deca are more "keepable" you could say.

I like your responses..You seem to know your shit. Do you mind if I pm you.

[Toenail Juice Z]

btw, what the hell is t-bol? Is it some sort of Dianabol? Never heard of this here in Europe.

[AleX-69]

i dont think short esters are useless for recreational users.

1) shorter invasion time - faster desired blood concentration
2) no cumulative effect - lesser side effects
3) faster clearance times - PCT can be planned better
4) more hormone per ml due to shorter ester weight
5) lesser water retention as it is believed that certain longer esters lead to water retention themselfs (i.e. enantate)

[AleX-69]

btw, what the hell is t-bol? Is it some sort of Dianabol? Never heard of this here in Europe.

I am from europe aswell bro

T-bol is short for oral turinabol which was the brand name of Chlordehydromethyltestosterone in the '60s.
Nowadays it is produced by a lot of underground labs.

Benefits are:

It keeps you dry
it adds a reasonable amount of muscle
it gives you strength
it is rather mild (i can use it a 50mg/day for 6 weeks without elevated liver enzyms)

[AleX-69]

yeah no probs with pm's..

[Toenail Juice Z]

I am from europe aswell bro

T-bol is short for oral turinabol which was the brand name of Chlordehydromethyltestosterone in the '60s.
Nowadays it is produced by a lot of underground labs.

Benefits are:

It keeps you dry
it adds a reasonable amount of muscle
it gives you strength
it is rather mild (i can use it a 50mg/day for 6 weeks without elevated liver enzyms)

Could it be compared with masteron then?

and do you frontload it like a-bombs and d-bol?, or is it better end of cycle?

Don't wanna waste your time bro, let me check out the profile..

[AleX-69]

i does not have a very strong binding to the AR so ... naw..

you might want to check out the profile of t-bol in the educational section:

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=199812

[AleX-69]

Don't wanna waste your time bro, ..

no worries, i am here to help... if you get something out of my responses then its all good!

[one8nine]

atleast if you wanna do these things use short esters like tren a instead of tren H, and prop instead of sus, and NPP insead of nan deconate

if its done the way you said you wont see much result the first couple weeks or just one week but youll see result in a few days on short esters you might as wellg et the most out of it if you are doing a short cycle

[Duke of Earl]

I like to use var with tbol, as tbol isn't very androgenic - I find the var/tbol combo to be fantastic ( I use around 50mg of each ED )

i dont think short esters are useless for recreational users.

1) shorter invasion time - faster desired blood concentration
2) no cumulative effect - lesser side effects
3) faster clearance times - PCT can be planned better
4) more hormone per ml due to shorter ester weight
5) lesser water retention as it is believed that certain longer esters lead to water retention themselfs (i.e. enantate)

I agree 100% - particularly with 3) - the whole point of short cycles is a quick & easy recovery to avoid losing gains - short halflife esters allow you to reach a stable level quicker, and more imporantly they clear quickly so you can start an effective PCT quicker

[Duke of Earl]

atleast if you wanna do these things use short esters like tren a instead of tren H, and prop instead of sus, and NPP insead of nan deconate

Totally - Tren A, NPP & Prop are ideal - I've never used it, but I guess suspension is the ultimate for short cycles.

[pumpd4lif]

Although nothing to do with roids, this is my theory...It's like the benzo xanax for example. It's effects only last a short period of time and regular administration is required. Why would I take xanax when I can take valium (diazepam) get the same results with it's effect lasting over 8 hours rather than 2 or 3 in xanax's case. Do you get my point.

yea but ur long esters arent kicking in till weeks 5 thru seven so its kinda a waste for what ur tryin to acomplish?