Deca Only Cycle???

[Othello]

Well, I have been thinking about this for a time now...and here it is for you all to give me your thoughts and feedbacks:

As it is common knowledge, Deca only cycles are supposed to be bad in the sense they shut you down completely, and many people are told to run Test alongside the deca...
Many a bodybuilder would like to try Deca on its own, or maybe another steroid, without having to throw in excessive amounts of Test.
Now my idea is that, instead of runing huge doses of Test, why doesnt the person run a dose equivalent to HRT/TRT doses since his nat test levels would be equivalent to those of people who are given such therapies...say the person would do Sustanon 250 once every two weeks or so...this way, the Test taken in would be replacing the naturally produced test of the body, and the Deca (or winny or any other steroid one wishes to run on its own)would be "doing its thing"...

I dont know if this has been proposed before, but the idea struck me as valid when I was reading/replying to a post about Sustanon, and its comparison to Single esthered Test ....

What sayest thou??

[Anabolios]

Well, I have been thinking about this for a time now...and here it is for you all to give me your thoughts and feedbacks:

As it is common knowledge, Deca only cycles are supposed to be bad in the sense they shut you down completely, and many people are told to run Test alongside the deca...
Many a bodybuilder would like to try Deca on its own, or maybe another steroid, without having to throw in excessive amounts of Test.
Now my idea is that, instead of runing huge doses of Test, why doesnt the person run a dose equivalent to HRT/TRT doses since his nat test levels would be equivalent to those of people who are given such therapies...say the person would do Sustanon 250 once every two weeks or so...this way, the Test taken in would be replacing the naturally produced test of the body, and the Deca (or winny or any other steroid one wishes to run on its own)would be "doing its thing"...

I dont know if this has been proposed before, but the idea struck me as valid when I was reading/replying to a post about Sustanon, and its comparison to Single esthered Test ....

What sayest thou??

yeah..replacement test..might nto work with deca but id say it works well with other compounds its the norm that deca is always run a bit lower than test but that doesnt mean it wont work..this is very good thinking

let us know when you have a final layout for a cycle but this is done quite often actually..especially for people that are prone to the heavy androgens but do not want to experience sides coming from low-no test production

[Kale]

yeah..replacement test..might nto work with deca but id say it works well with other compounds its the norm that deca is always run a bit lower than test but that doesnt mean it wont work..this is very good thinking

let us know when you have a final layout for a cycle but this is done quite often actually..especially for people that are prone to the heavy androgens but do not want to experience sides coming from low-no test production

I agree, its definitly worth thinking about and the reasoning behind its is sound IMO

[Othello]

Thanks Anabolios and Kale for your feedback...Well, to be honnest, I have two cycle ideas I'm toying with right now, preparing them for the
coming fall/winter...trying to get as much research done and feedback as possible...then I might give this idea a shot...

one is a "bulker" and one a "cutter" so to speak...depends on my state of mind at the time...

----------for bulk--------------------
Week 1-10 Deca 400 or 500mg
EOW Susta 250mg (add an extra week after the Deca maybe)
Week 1-10 Proviron 50mg ED

----------for cuts--------------------
Week 1-11 Winstrol or Winstrol V 100mg EOD
EOW Susta 250mg (run an extra week in week 12)
Week 1-12 Proviron 50mg ED

PCT: Nolva and Proviron....
Of course Deca and Winnie can be replaced by anything....this will all be dependent of gear availability and prices at the time...

I'm sure Susta is used less frequently than every other week in HRT/TRT...I'd gladly appreciate it if any of the board members can shed some light as to the proper Susta (or any other cmpound) dosage in HRT/TRT.

[Anabolios]

Thanks Anabolios and Kale for your feedback...Well, to be honnest, I have two cycle ideas I'm toying with right now, preparing them for the
coming fall/winter...trying to get as much research done and feedback as possible...then I might give this idea a shot...

one is a "bulker" and one a "cutter" so to speak...depends on my state of mind at the time...

----------for bulk--------------------
Week 1-10 Deca 400 or 500mg
EOW Susta 250mg (add an extra week after the Deca maybe)
Week 1-10 Proviron 50mg ED

----------for cuts--------------------
Week 1-11 Winstrol or Winstrol V 100mg EOD
EOW Susta 250mg (run an extra week in week 12)
Week 1-12 Proviron 50mg ED

PCT: Nolva and Proviron....
Of course Deca and Winnie can be replaced by anything....this will all be dependent of gear availability and prices at the time...

I'm sure Susta is used less frequently than every other week in HRT/TRT...I'd gladly appreciate it if any of the board members can shed some light as to the proper Susta (or any other cmpound) dosage in HRT/TRT.

youre still risking it with deca..but i wouldnt pic the sust because of fluctuating blood levels and you are wasting the fast acting part of the blend because its used and gone within a few days..use a longer ester like cyp,undecanoate,or enanathate and do bi weekly injections

i wouldnt do winny and that low dose of test..you prob wont gain much...maybe try var/tbol and low dose of test or run eq really high with replacement test and var or tbol to kickstart @ 50mgs for 6-8 weeks

[Othello]

youre still risking it with deca..but i wouldnt pic the sust because of fluctuating blood levels and you are wasting the fast acting part of the blend because its used and gone within a few days..use a longer ester like cyp,undecanoate,or enanathate and do bi weekly injections

i wouldnt do winny and that low dose of test..you prob wont gain much...maybe try var/tbol and low dose of test or run eq really high with replacement test and var or tbol to kickstart @ 50mgs for 6-8 weeks

well I picked Sust because it is a well known HRT/TRT drug...and that was the base of my idea...to run a test compund as a replacement and not to gain muscle from it...wouldnt use susta in a normal cycle...tried it once and didnt like it....I might replace Susta with andriol (another TRT drug)...

the winny is not for gaining as much as for leaning out...var is unfortunately not readily available in Lebanon where I live...neither is Tbol...but the short cycle concept makes more sense, you are right...especially with Winny....
so far all my cycles have been 12 weekers (with a couple of 14 weekers)...might be worth it to try a 6 or 8 weeker...

[Logan13]

Well, I have been thinking about this for a time now...and here it is for you all to give me your thoughts and feedbacks:

As it is common knowledge, Deca only cycles are supposed to be bad in the sense they shut you down completely, and many people are told to run Test alongside the deca...
Many a bodybuilder would like to try Deca on its own, or maybe another steroid, without having to throw in excessive amounts of Test.
Now my idea is that, instead of runing huge doses of Test, why doesnt the person run a dose equivalent to HRT/TRT doses since his nat test levels would be equivalent to those of people who are given such therapies...say the person would do Sustanon 250 once every two weeks or so...this way, the Test taken in would be replacing the naturally produced test of the body, and the Deca (or winny or any other steroid one wishes to run on its own)would be "doing its thing"...

I dont know if this has been proposed before, but the idea struck me as valid when I was reading/replying to a post about Sustanon, and its comparison to Single esthered Test ....

What sayest thou??

There are right ways and wrong ways to run AAS. Do not make this harder than it needs to be, AAS has been experimented with for over 30 years. Don't try to re-invent the wheel bro. If you want to go with a low test cycle, do. But don't throw deca in there and hope that it works. There are way too many "problem using deca" posts here already.
Good luck,
Logan13

[Kale]

well I picked Sust because it is a well known HRT/TRT drug...and that was the base of my idea...to run a test compund as a replacement and not to gain muscle from it...wouldnt use susta in a normal cycle...tried it once and didnt like it....I might replace Susta with andriol (another TRT drug)...

the winny is not for gaining as much as for leaning out...var is unfortunately not readily available in Lebanon where I live...neither is Tbol...but the short cycle concept makes more sense, you are right...especially with Winny....
so far all my cycles have been 12 weekers (with a couple of 14 weekers)...might be worth it to try a 6 or 8 weeker...

I would dispute that. What are you basing that assumption on ?

[Othello]

I would dispute that. What are you basing that assumption on?

What assumption do you want to dispute bro? that of SUST being used in TRT???
well as far as I know, its not out there for sale in pharmacies for the use of the likes of you and I...Susta ( and a google search will show u that) was created by Organon as a Test. Replacement drug...

My theory, if you read the initial post, is that running a test compound as they do in TRT would help out in the shutdown caused by runing Deca or similar drugs on their own...the reason for not runing test is that many people are prone to sides caused by Test(water retention, acne etc), and would like to run and gain from cycle without the sides...

[Othello]

There are right ways and wrong ways to run AAS. Do not make this harder than it needs to be, AAS has been experimented with for over 30 years. Don't try to re-invent the wheel bro. If you want to go with a low test cycle, do. But don't throw deca in there and hope that it works. There are way too many "problem using deca" posts here already.
Good luck,
Logan13

I am not reinventing the wheel man...and neither do I want to go with a low test cycle...I've been to 1.2g of test a week and back without any problem...fact is i love test...

I think you missed my point alltogether bro...my initial point was being able to run a Testosterone-less cycle...some people may be prone to Test related sides...others may want to benefit from a specific characteristic of a drug, without having to throw test in....so its a deca cycle with some test being "thrown in and hope it works"

many a thread on this forum (and other similar ones) will tell u that test should be the base of all cycles, the reason behind this some drugs will shut down your natural test production, and this could negatively affect your sex life...so the logic would say, run a test dose equivalent to that used in replacement therapies to counter balance the shutdown, thus keeping test levels normal in the body...and run the drug of choice as u see fit...thus at this stage, runing Test in the cycle would become like runing adex or proviron or any other side drug to fight side effects rather than to benefit from its anabolic capabilities...

as to the statement that

AAS has been experimented with for over 30 years

this is exactly what I am doing...experimenting...last I checked, it was through experimentation that discoveries were made...and its through challenging facts that man has evolved...

[Othello]

I would dispute that. What are you basing that assumption on ?

Heres an extract about Sustanon from Organons home page:
http://www.organon.co.uk/products/hrt/sandrena.asp


Sustanon® (esters of testosterone)

Your body turns the active ingredients in Sustanon into testosterone. Testosterone is a natural male hormone known as an androgen which controls normal sexual development in men. Sustanon is used to replace testosterone in the body to treat various male sexual problems, for example:
• after castration or a similar problem called eunuchoidism
• impotence caused by hormonal disorders
• decreased sex drive
• Infertility caused by low sperm count
• bone loss caused by low hormone levels
• when the pituitary gland cannot work as well as it should (hypopituitarism); this can cause decreased sexual ability in males.

[Kale]

What assumption do you want to dispute bro? that of SUST being used in TRT???
well as far as I know, its not out there for sale in pharmacies for the use of the likes of you and I...Susta ( and a google search will show u that) was created by Organon as a Test. Replacement drug...

My theory, if you read the initial post, is that running a test compound as they do in TRT would help out in the shutdown caused by runing Deca or similar drugs on their own...the reason for not runing test is that many people are prone to sides caused by Test(water retention, acne etc), and would like to run and gain from cycle without the sides...

I agree with that, and I know that Sustanon was created for HRT but I have never seen it prescribed for that. Furthermore I cant understand why you would prescribe a Test, with four different Esters with varying half lives for HRT, when a simple long Ester like Cyprionate or Enanthate are totally effective with a lot less injections. Sust should be shot ED or at least EOD to get the most form the Proprionate Ester, otherwise whats the point of using it at all. And for HRT, EOD or ED injectioctions are unacceptable IMO

[Stumbo]

Ive done this once before, I ran a low dose of test with a pretty high dose of tren. I feel like it did what it was suppost to, however, for me, I think that the majority of my gains come from test.

Thats just me. I say give it a try, and let us all know how it goes, maybe we can learn somthing from it.

[Othello]

I agree with that, and I know that Sustanon was created for HRT but I have never seen it prescribed for that. Furthermore I cant understand why you would prescribe a Test, with four different Esters with varying half lives for HRT, when a simple long Ester like Cyprionate or Enanthate are totally effective with a lot less injections. Sust should be shot ED or at least EOD to get the most form the Proprionate Ester, otherwise whats the point of using it at all. And for HRT, EOD or ED injectioctions are unacceptable IMO

EOD or ED injections in case you are thinking anabolic steroid usage (thus keeping the Test levels constantly up), not replacement therapy...with Susta, I beleive the 4 esters are meant to allow the test to be "released" in the body at varying intervals (which would explain the usage of short and long esters)...thus allowing some time between injections...mind you Susta was mentioned as an example(I myself am no big fan of it), coz its the first thing that came to my mind when I though TRT...
by searching on google for TRT, I found the following compounds that could be used ...

• Andropatch (SmithKline Beecham)
• Nebido (Schering)
• Restandol (Organon)
• Striant SR (Ardana)
• Sustanon (Organon)
• Testim Gel (Ipsen)
• Testoderm (Ferring)
• Testogel (Schering)
• Testosterone Implant (Organon)

remember Test here is just for replacement, and replacement only...tis is the basis of my whole idea...to grow or cut from the other drugs...not from test.

[Othello]

I noticed I've been using HRT and TRT interchangeably...it turns out HRT is for women whereas TRT is the term used for men ... so I stand corrected...

anyone with more input as to the initial idea???

thanks y'all

[Kale]

EOD or ED injections in case you are thinking anabolic steroid usage (thus keeping the Test levels constantly up), not replacement therapy...with Susta, I beleive the 4 esters are meant to allow the test to be "released" in the body at varying intervals (which would explain the usage of short and long esters)...thus allowing some time between injections...mind you Susta was mentioned as an example(I myself am no big fan of it), coz its the first thing that came to my mind when I though TRT...
by searching on google for TRT, I found the following compounds that could be used ...

• Andropatch (SmithKline Beecham)
• Nebido (Schering)
• Restandol (Organon)
• Striant SR (Ardana)
• Sustanon (Organon)
• Testim Gel (Ipsen)
• Testoderm (Ferring)
• Testogel (Schering)
• Testosterone Implant (Organon)

remember Test here is just for replacement, and replacement only...tis is the basis of my whole idea...to grow or cut from the other drugs...not from test.

But the short ester is useless unless sust is injected everyday. I dont want to argue the point I will just say that for TRT in an injectable form thate Test E or Test C is a much more viable alternative than Sust

[Othello]

Kale, in lebanon we say "a rassi" means something along the lines of yr word is as good as gold as far as I'm concerned

I agree no point in arguying about which test to use when the main thing is the actual quantity to use ...

cheers bro and thanks for your imputs...they are valuable...

[Kale]

Kale, in lebanon we say "a rassi" means something along the lines of yr word is as good as gold as far as I'm concerned

I agree no point in arguying about which test to use when the main thing is the actual quantity to use ...

cheers bro and thanks for your imputs...they are valuable...

Now amounts I can give you because I do TRT myself. By the way, I hope you dont live in Southern Lebanon. seems a bit dangerous there at the moment.
I actually do whats called "cruising" between cycles which is effectively TRT, I never do PCT. By the way I am 51 so this isnt as radicle as it seems. I sit on about 100mg Test E a week netween cycles, which puts me at the high end of the range for free Testosterone. The only way to know the right dose for you is with blood Tests. Now if I was doing what you are planning with Deca I would be looking at about 200mg of Test a week just to be on the safe side.

[demirsteel]

Yes, you can do a cycle like this. Once I did a cycle like this it includes 500mg/tren en, 100mg proviron ed and 250mg Sustanon every other week. I works nice, ı feel no decreased sex drive. However is this the result of having enough test or proviron, ı do not know

[Othello]

Now amounts I can give you because I do TRT myself. By the way, I hope you dont live in Southern Lebanon. seems a bit dangerous there at the moment.
I actually do whats called "cruising" between cycles which is effectively TRT, I never do PCT. By the way I am 51 so this isnt as radicle as it seems. I sit on about 100mg Test E a week netween cycles, which puts me at the high end of the range for free Testosterone. The only way to know the right dose for you is with blood Tests. Now if I was doing what you are planning with Deca I would be looking at about 200mg of Test a week just to be on the safe side.

naa not in the South...I live in Beirut, although I come from the north...

I'm 35 now so 15 more years I'll be joining u in TRT

I think I will wait till about 4 weeks after PCT, get a blood test to estimate my test levels...maybe do another one 2 weeks later to kinda find the average...then work out the right amount of test to include in a week...between us dont mind being on the high side of test myself
will add in Proviron as well...

thanks again man

[Othello]

Well, I have been thinking about this for a time now...and here it is for you all to give me your thoughts and feedbacks:

As it is common knowledge, Deca only cycles are supposed to be bad in the sense they shut you down completely, and many people are told to run Test alongside the deca...
Many a bodybuilder would like to try Deca on its own, or maybe another steroid, without having to throw in excessive amounts of Test.
Now my idea is that, instead of runing huge doses of Test, why doesnt the person run a dose equivalent to HRT/TRT doses since his nat test levels would be equivalent to those of people who are given such therapies...say the person would do Sustanon 250 once every two weeks or so...this way, the Test taken in would be replacing the naturally produced test of the body, and the Deca (or winny or any other steroid one wishes to run on its own)would be "doing its thing"...

I dont know if this has been proposed before, but the idea struck me as valid when I was reading/replying to a post about Sustanon, and its comparison to Single esthered Test ....

What sayest thou??

While surfing, I found this thread I had started almost a year back...

well, from what I saw on the forum lately, I am glad that the concept of using TRT doses of test with other types of gear is indeed catching on...

I eventually went on to try it out with deca...because on previous cycles, I did 1g of test per week, I was somewhat scared the 250mg test would be useless...

12 weeks with 500mg deca and 250mg test per week...kick off with 4 weeks of dianabol at 50mg ed.

result: gained 15kg of which I lost around 9 to maintain 6kg in all...

effects on libido & sex: close to nil...I threw in arimidex around the last 4 weeks for fear of deca induced gyno...but it was more of a safety concern than anyhting...

just thought id shre it with u guys out there

cheers

[helium3]

i skipped some of the posts,so i may ahve missed some info but heres my 2c.

ive had experience with deca only cycles and i can say without a doubt they are easy,safe and produce lean gains while on.pct is definitley more difficult than say a test cycle.if you suffer from deca dick then get some cabergoline and the problem will be solved 99% of the time.

my next cycle is going to be 800mg deca for 7 weeks and 250mg test for 10 weeks.i dont really have a reason for throu***ng the test in,except i like the feel of test.

my last cycle was deca alone,with zero problems except for a 6 week recovery,in which i lost no lbm.its totally individual ***endent .

[ronan the barbarian]

i have often heard about deca dick and thought surely you would only need a minimal amount of test (trt)to stop any probs,but i have also heard/read people doin deca only cycles (especially goin back a few years) and havin no probs what so ever.

and no one has really given a rock solid argument for not doin a deca/minimum test cycle...of course unless i missed something.lol.which i prob have

[helium3]

again 99% of the time cases of deca dick are caused by some peoples adverse reaction to increased prolactin,which is why sometimes even people who run high dose test/deca still suffer from deca dick.you have to attack the cause(with a dopamine receptor agonist,which will lower prolactin production)and not try to circumvent the problem in some cases.