Switching esters????

[NOOOT]

I was wondering if switching from tren enanthate to tren acetate would really make that much difference...

[Alpha-Male]

simply an injection-frequency preference...i don't like to feel like a pin-cushion, so i go for enanthate for test and tren (and pills for others)...JMO...but no, no diff. in overall effectiveness or outcome, at least that can be properly quantified...

alpha

[Swifto]

Tren A is stronger than Tren E. You get more mg per mg as the ester is lighter in weight. Its also easier to attain stable blood plasma concentrations using a shorter ester. Which, in turn, means more gains and less sides.

[G-1000]

It can be done but you will need to shoot it ed or eod.

[Alpha-Male]

Tren A is stronger than Tren E. You get more mg per mg as the ester is lighter in weight. Its also easier to attain stable blood plasma concentrations using a shorter ester. Which, in turn, means more gains and less sides.

this is the only true sentence in your statement...

if you disagree, then are you saying that test prop is "stronger" than test cyp or enath??? and that you get "more gains" with it than the others??? surely not...

i guarantee you cannot, as i mentioned before in anticipation of a response like this, properly quantify those statements...meaning, take two identical twins and place them on the same diet, training and "supplementation" regimen, i promise you the acetate subject will not make "better" gains...c'mon, seriously?

[Swifto]

this is the only true sentence in your statement...

if you disagree, then are you saying that test prop is "stronger" than test cyp or enath??? and that you get "more gains" with it than the others??? surely not...
i guarantee you cannot, as i mentioned before in anticipation of a response like this, properly quantify those statements...meaning, take two identical twins and place them on the same diet, training and "supplementation" regimen, i promise you the acetate subject will not make "better" gains...c'mon, seriously?

Thats exactly what I'm saying.

More Testosterone = More Gains. You will get more gains from 1000mg/wk of Test Enanthate, than you will 500mg/wk. But...There is a point where you will get diminishing returns.

Know about Ester's and how much actual mg you will get from a certain estered compound?

Test Prop, I believe its 80mg per 100mg.

Test Enan is, 70mg per 100mg

And finally...Test Cyp is, 69mg per 100mg.

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...t=actual+100mg

I guess that kind of backs that theory up then....

[Swifto]

If I anticipate your next response. Your either going to argue that my example is for "Testosterone" not Trenbolone. But then....I think we'd agree more active hormone = more gains. Or....Then you'de be suggesting 50mg/ED Tren A will yield more gains than 300mg/ED Tren A. Which...Isnt right at all.

[Alpha-Male]

THAT backs your theory up? that you'll get better gains from one ester over the other??? kinda along the lines of frontloading theories...yes, they sound good and make perfect sense, but have you tried both ways? not much difference in the end. dude, i've never ran more than 500mg/wk of any test, and i guarantee you, i get along just dandy...the only true statement you made was about maintaining more stable plasma levels, which in theory, might lead a novice to think you'll see better gains, but in terms of quantifiable, actualized gains, there's no frikin' difference from ester to the next, other than not having to jack your ass with a pin everyday...have all your 5K posts passed on such incredible knowledge?

to the original poster, this board is often filled with many opinions, so i say to you, just try one way, and then on your next run, try the other (remembering to workout and diet exactly the same for each...be fair), and see what you think...post pics if you like...hell, maybe i'll do it damnit...no, i won't, let Swifto do it...

alpha

[Swifto]

THAT backs your theory up? that you'll get better gains from one ester over the other??? kinda along the lines of frontloading theories...yes, they sound good and make perfect sense, but have you tried both ways? not much difference in the end. dude, i've never ran more than 500mg/wk of any test, and i guarantee you, i get along just dandy...the only true statement you made was about maintaining more stable plasma levels, which in theory, might lead a novice to think you'll see better gains, but in terms of quantifiable, actualized gains, there's no frikin' difference from ester to the next, other than not having to jack your ass with a pin everyday...have all your 5K posts passed on such incredible knowledge?

to the original poster, this board is often filled with many opinions, so i say to you, just try one way, and then on your next run, try the other (remembering to workout and diet exactly the same for each...be fair), and see what you think...post pics if you like...hell, maybe i'll do it damnit...no, i won't, let Swifto do it...

alpha

I'm out. Said what I got to say....Aswell as backed it up.

[Alpha-Male]

didn't figure you'd get it...no biggie

remember, just because something looks good on paper, oh, i don't know, like how dextrose/malto with your PWO shake will yield better results than other carbs, just doesn't pan out in THE REAL WORLD...i wasn't doubting your research, oops, i mean the thread you pulled from someone else's research that i'm sure you took time to check out and verify...i simply want to keep people focused on acualized vs. something studied in a petri dish...c'mon, that had to have made some sense...

[oswaldosalcedo]

but it is not intrinsic, to the final are equivalent.

[Alpha-Male]

god damn club-kid...stay off the acid

[oswaldosalcedo]

Ester weight and weekly mg
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=225236

Do you consider upping your doses based on ester?
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=225228

............................

[one8nine]

im with swifto on this one

[Alpha-Male]

Ester weight and weekly mg
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=225236

Do you consider upping your doses based on ester?
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=225228

............................

hey, neato, you pulled some posts of the same shit that's already been posted...cool...i've got an idea though, why not try to do some independent research, you know, on your own, and show, no wait, PROVE to me that i'll get bigger gains/better results from taking test prop vs. test enath. AND/OR tren ace. or tren enath.??? pleeeeeeeze...

damn, i didn't realize this was being debated so heavily...must have run out of things to argue about since i've been away...

[oswaldosalcedo]

incredible.............i say prop,enan,cyp is same thing, just have to adjust equivalent quantities.
example:
100 mg cyp test = 70 mg test and so on.

[one8nine]

the fact is more is more and if you get more test you get more result i dont see hwo thats confusing

[Chipper Jones78]

Thats exactly what I'm saying.

More Testosterone = More Gains. You will get more gains from 1000mg/wk of Test Enanthate, than you will 500mg/wk. But...There is a point where you will get diminishing returns.

Know about Ester's and how much actual mg you will get from a certain estered compound?

Test Prop, I believe its 80mg per 100mg.

Test Enan is, 70mg per 100mg

And finally...Test Cyp is, 69mg per 100mg.

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...t=actual+100mg

I guess that kind of backs that theory up then....

I agree with Swift here as well....

Chip

[Alpha-Male]

please, read the thread from the beginning....that's why you're confused....you really think that i'm debating whether 500mg/wk is not as much as 1000mg/wk? the issue was, originally, Mr. Swift stated that you would get more gains with less (which should say fewer) sides, with a faster acting ester...to me this means, he believes, one will make greater gains off of 500mg/wk of the tren acetate (or test prop) taken everday, over 500mg/wk of tren enanthate taken, say, twice a week (or whatever amount would be needed to reach the equivalent level of the other ester)...i'm just saying PROVE IT.....yes, it is incredible that poeple butt in on a thread without reading it from the start...sorry i failed to make it clear just exactly what it was i was having a problem with...damn

[Chipper Jones78]

please, read the thread from the beginning....that's why you're confused....you really think that i'm debating whether 500mg/wk is not as much as 1000mg/wk? the issue was, originally, Mr. Swift stated that you would get more gains with less (which should say fewer) sides, with a faster acting ester...to me this means, he believes, one will make greater gains off of 500mg/wk of the tren acetate (or test prop) taken everday, over 500mg/wk of tren enanthate taken, say, twice a week (or whatever amount would be needed to reach the equivalent level of the other ester)...i'm just saying PROVE IT.....yes, it is incredible that poeple butt in on a thread without reading it from the start...sorry i failed to make it clear just exactly what it was i was having a problem with...damn

I hear what your saying....

Chip

[taiboxa]

shorter ester = more potent compound

[G-1000]

shorter ester = more potent compound

swifto has this one tai.

I think he did a great job as well.

swifto

[Alpha-Male]

since i've been in this situation with you two guys before, i'll let it go...i know how much you care about one another...

and Tai, if you read carefully, i was never debating your statement...

i'll try one last time, then i'm done...i promise you, any of you, that if you take propionate, and i take enanthate (and i'll go as far as to say will take the exact same amounts, every week), you're not, and i repeat, NOT, going to make any better or bigger gains than me....period. this was my stance from "Go", in case you're too frikin' lazy to go back and read. daaaaaaamn...

[Swifto]

swifto has this one tai.

I think he did a great job as well.

swifto

I'll give myself a pat on the back.

[taiboxa]

swifto has this one tai.

I think he did a great job as well.

swifto

u knowi neva read stuff

and yeah i ssaw it he pimp

[G-1000]

since i've been in this situation with you two guys before, i'll let it go...i know how much you care about one another...

and Tai, if you read carefully, i was never debating your statement...

i'll try one last time, then i'm done...i promise you, any of you, that if you take propionate, and i take enanthate (and i'll go as far as to say will take the exact same amounts, every week), you're not, and i repeat, NOT, going to make any better or bigger gains than me....period. this was my stance from "Go", in case you're too frikin' lazy to go back and read. daaaaaaamn...

That is going to come down to what kind of gains. Test-e will bloat you and show more and a scale the prop will. Does that mean you got better gains from the test-e. Of course not it’s just retaining more water.

[Alpha-Male]

well, since i truly am a vet, and didn't somehow miraculously convince one of my customers to put my title in green, i know very well how to diet, train, and use proper ancillaries to keep my bloat, on ANY drug, to a minimum...i use enanthate in EVERY cycle i do now, including my cutters, and one more time for the kids: i'll stack my gains, in terms of lean muscle mass, overall look, strength, whatever you decide, up against anyone running prop. okie dokie? so i'll leave you three to your session now...

[Swifto]

Its not rocket science....

One could argue that Test Susp is the stongest form of Testosterone, you get MORE Testosterone mg/mg than any other form of Testosterone, so....Its the most potent.

[oswaldosalcedo]

well, since i truly am a vet, and didn't somehow miraculously convince one of my customers to put my title in green, i know very well how to diet, train, and use proper ancillaries to keep my bloat, on ANY drug, to a minimum...i use enanthate in EVERY cycle i do now, including my cutters, and one more time for the kids: i'll stack my gains, in terms of lean muscle mass, overall look, strength, whatever you decide, up against anyone running prop. okie dokie? so i'll leave you three to your session now...

i agree, i have done cycles with prop or enan and I don't swell bigger thing. My estradiol levels they are always normal (without anything).
although,(maybe) the most rapid substances have less chance of being (time) to be aromatized than slow compounds and at big quantities less yet..

[MrMent1on]

this is the only true sentence in your statement...

if you disagree, then are you saying that test prop is "stronger" than test cyp or enath??? and that you get "more gains" with it than the others??? surely not...

i guarantee you cannot, as i mentioned before in anticipation of a response like this, properly quantify those statements...meaning, take two identical twins and place them on the same diet, training and "supplementation" regimen, i promise you the acetate subject will not make "better" gains...c'mon, seriously?

Correct, your dead on. esters are just length of time not strength.

[taiboxa]

Correct, your dead on. esters are just length of time not strength.

how can u say that..

test prop
is 74.3% raw test per mg
and 25.7% ester

TestE
is 54.8% raw test
and 45.2% ester so about 20% difference between testeE and Prop

u get 1 mg of test E which has 20% less test per mg since the ester takes up more space in the molecule
thus

2g of prop vs 2g testE
the prop would have 400mg more raw test
SO BASICALLY U HAVE 2.4g/wk vs 2g/wk
but due to the fact it is difficult to suspend (since the ester is smaller and is less homophobic)it is hard to get the larger amounts to hold in solution.

[Alpha-Male]

guess that would matter if i ever needed 2g of any test in any given week...

Tai, just let it die, we'll all agree to disagree...i was never debating the figures you just posted, as you would clearly see if you read my earlier posts...i have no idea how that got misinterpreted...some of you seem so knowledgable about lots of things...either way, i was only speaking in terms of real world gains, like muscularity, vascularity, strength, lean weight gain, etc., and i firmly believe that nobody could ever prove otherwise...

i'll wait for it though, i'll wait...

cool?

[MrMent1on]

how can u say that..

test prop
is 74.3% raw test per mg
and 25.7% ester

TestE
is 54.8% raw test
and 45.2% ester so about 20% difference between testeE and Prop

u get 1 mg of test E which has 20% less test per mg since the ester takes up more space in the molecule
thus

2g of prop vs 2g testE
the prop would have 400mg more raw test
SO BASICALLY U HAVE 2.4g/wk vs 2g/wk
but due to the fact it is difficult to suspend (since the ester is smaller and is less homophobic)it is hard to get the larger amounts to hold in solution.

your correct.The truth is that suspention actually is a faster acting testosterone and contain more total testosterone per 100mg dosage than any esterfied testosterone. just read it.

[taiboxa]

guess that would matter if i ever needed 2g of any test in any given week...

Tai, just let it die, we'll all agree to disagree...i was never debating the figures you just posted, as you would clearly see if you read my earlier posts...i have no idea how that got misinterpreted...some of you seem so knowledgable about lots of things...either way, i was only speaking in terms of real world gains, like muscularity, vascularity, strength, lean weight gain, etc., and i firmly believe that nobody could ever prove otherwise...

i'll wait for it though, i'll wait...

cool?

i was just responding to Mr. Ment
i, infact hate test it is the weakest shit out there besides var
give my my DHT's and 19nors

[taiboxa]

your correct.The truth is that suspention actually is a faster acting testosterone and contain more total testosterone per 100mg dosage than any esterfied testosterone. just read it.

yes but suspension = an assload of shots LOL
and 400mg test really doesnt mean much to me but u knwos anyways props to u on ur competition

[MrMent1on]

Explain something to me....... 1cc of test e vs. 1cc of prop, which is stronger? just curious.

[taiboxa]

Explain something to me....... 1cc of test e vs. 1cc of prop, which is stronger? just curious.

wats the mg/ml ratio?

is it 300mg/ml prop in EO vs 300mg/ml testE in oil?

[MrMent1on]

yes but suspension = an assload of shots LOL
and 400mg test really doesnt mean much to me but u knwos anyways props to u on ur competition

Thanx bro.

[MrMent1on]

wats the mg/ml ratio?

is it 300mg/ml prop in EO vs 300mg/ml testE in oil?

Tai i've never came across a 300mg/ml prop before, maybe i'll learn something new today. i've only seen 100mg. so my question would be
100mg prop Vs. 250ng test E. and if 300mg/ml prop exist pm me and let me know where to get that sh!t.

[taiboxa]

Tai i've never came across a 300mg/ml prop before, maybe i'll learn something new today. i've only seen 100mg. so my question would be
100mg prop Vs. 250ng test E. and if 300mg/ml prop exist pm me and let me know where to get that sh!t.

LOL YGPM