Clen and your heart

**Samson7** · 07-31-2006, 01:49 PM

Has anyone had/heard of or seen anyone who has had heart problems due to clen ? How does it work for you and what do you suggest for a healthy heart while on clen?

I was thinking about it for PCT to solidify gains. Let me know what you think.

**MrMeathead** · 07-31-2006, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by Samson7

Has anyone had/heard of or seen anyone who has had heart problems due to clen ? How does it work for you and what do you suggest for a healthy heart while on clen?

I was thinking about it for PCT to solidify gains. Let me know what you think.

Unfortunately I have.

I just started clen today at 60mcg. Clen also targets cardiac muscle fibers and smootth muscle fibers soo cardiac hypertrophy is possible.

**cfiler** · 07-31-2006, 04:18 PM

I've used Clen only acouple of times, but don not notice any sort of heart issues. I see the doctor regularly, and my physicals are always fine.

Then again, my dosage is usually pretty low, and I have only run two clen cycles.

**PlasticFuture112** · 08-01-2006, 02:40 AM

This is strictly opinionated but the chances of running into cardiac problems most definately lies within genetics while using clen . We arent taking high enough doses to really ever see people whom experience cardiac hypertrophy. As long as you monitor your BP while on and regulate dosages dependant from the BP a person will be fine. I would also try to look into core body temp as well and balance a dose off of that. As long as you do that and diet correctly to a hearts benefit, ie- foods that can lower cholesterol, etc. someone should be ok. hope this can be a help.

**stupidhippo** · 08-01-2006, 03:59 AM

im not worried of cardiac hypertrophy as such.. I am more worried about the possibility of scar tissue forming.. cause as some of u know this is irreversible and maybe in long term could possess a great threat.. u can find the links in pubmed... the only question is at what doses are the effects seen.. Since B2 agonists are used in medicine so regularily, I would like to know is this property of forming scar tissue only attributable to clen (i seriously doubt it). Cause if not then i would beliueve this is strongy dose dependant and then small doses of clen are probably pretty safe. The studies were done on rats and the doses varied but some changes were already observed at a pretty standard mcg/kg dose. The significance of this cant be estimated though by only reading those studies.. I love clen in PCT and I dont know if its worth it or not..

**PlasticFuture112** · 08-01-2006, 10:43 AM

Try horses for that matter, and doses were at the mg level not mcg which in return calculated into humans and it would be a dose far above anything already recommended. So basically we arent taking nearly enough in comparison to make a great deal of difference. But then again, everyones bodies react quite differently to every substance and the genetic factor will have a huge standing on how your heart reacts short/long term to the clen .

**timtim** · 08-01-2006, 11:49 AM

Try horses for that matter, and doses were at the mg level not mcg which in return calculated into humans and it would be a dose far above anything already recommended. So basically we arent taking nearly enough in comparison to make a great deal of difference. But then again, everyones bodies react quite differently to every substance and the genetic factor will have a huge standing on how your heart reacts short/long term to the clen.

this one has been around for awhile and completely disagrees with your comment about not taking a high enough dose for damage.

here you go. it was done on rats but the dosage is nearly the same as human consumption.

Low Dose Clen Induces Cardiac Apoptosis (cell death of heart cells)
Originaly posted by nandi on CM board.

It's been known for some time that Clenbuterol at high doses causes cardiac necrosis. This study in animals shows that doses of 1 mcg/kg BW induce apoptosis (programmed cell death) in heart tissue. Humans not uncommonly ingest this much Clen. For instance, in a 220 lb (100 kg) bodybuilder this translates to 100 mcg. The CEM store sells Clen at a concentration of 200 mcg/ml! Other UG labs sell it at similar concentrations, ranging from 100 to 200 mcg per ml.

J Appl Physiol. 2004 Dec 10; [Epub ahead of print] Related Articles, Links

{beta}2-Adrenergic receptor stimulation in vivo induces apoptosis in the rat heart and soleus muscle.

Burniston JG, Tan LB, Goldspink DF.

Research Institute for Sports and Exercise Sciences, Liverpool John Moores University, Liverpool, United Kingdom.

High doses of the beta2-adrenergic receptor (AR) agonist, Clenbuterol, can induce necrotic myocyte death in the heart and slow-twitch skeletal muscle of the rat. However, it is not known if this agent can also induce myocyte apoptosis and whether this would occur at a lower dose than previously reported for myocyte necrosis. Male Wistar rats were given single subcutaneous injections of Clenbuterol. Immunohistochemistry was used to detect myocyte specific apoptosis (detected on cryosections using a caspase 3 antibody and confirmed using annexin V, single-strand DNA labelling and TUNEL). Myocyte apoptosis was first detected at 2 h, and peaked 4 h after Clenbuterol administration. The lowest dose of Clenbuterol to induce cardiomyocyte apoptosis was 1 microg kg(-1), with peak apoptosis (0.35 +/- 0.005 %; P<0.05) occurring in response to 5 mg kg(-1) . In the soleus, peak apoptosis (5.8 +/- 2 %; P<0.05) was induced by the lower dose of 10 microg kg(-1). Cardiomyocyte apoptosis occurred throughout the ventricles, atria and papillary muscles. However, this damage was most abundant in the left ventricular subendocardium at a point 1.6 mm, that is, approximately one-quarter of the way from the apex towards the base. beta-AR antagonism (involving propranolol, bisoprolol or ICI 118,551) or reserpine was used to show that clenbuterol-induced myocardial apoptosis was mediated through neuromodulation of the sympathetic system and the cardiomyocyte beta1-AR, whereas in the soleus direct stimulation of the myocyte beta2-AR was involved. These data show that when administered in vivo, beta2-AR stimulation by Clenbuterol is detrimental to cardiac and skeletal muscles even at low doses, by inducing apoptosis through beta1- and beta2-AR, respectively.