Non-Steroid question...I guess...

**IronFreakX** · 08-04-2006, 03:01 AM

I'm gonna start working out again after stopping for almost 2 months due to a broken foot, but I dont workout with weights that much nemore...just some military presses, sometimes weighted dips, pullups or pushups and adding some while running thats about it.

I want to increase my preformance, My diet is already in check, 5000-6000 calories, 200gs fat, 200g protein and 600g carbs (Approx)

Work out includes Tons of running (6 miles for startes want to build up to 10+), swimming(2+miles), tons of pushups, pullups, dips, sit ups, military presses, rope climbing etc...etc....

(just so no1 says I need some info

)

I want to add some "supplements" Im thinking of:

-Kynoselen
-EPO
-SLIN(already done it before)
-IGF
-Adequan(PSAG)
-Im still thinking about some nolva+HCG maybe????

SO basically I dont want steroids , but I do have these questions

-Will these supps affect me negativly when discontinued?? (Loss of preformance..I dont care if I gain muscle and lose it later..preformance is what Im worried about)

-Any of em detected after approx 1 year??

-Do you reccomend I not take em or take only a few of em?? or something else??

Thanks

**AleX-69** · 08-04-2006, 04:28 AM

maybe you would be better off asking these questions in the IFG, HGH forum..

i am not that expierenced with those substances but i have some input nevertheless:

nolva/hcg - wouldn't use it. Detetcion is rather easy in urine as the human body produces almost no HCG.

EPO - There is no way of detecing it directly.. But it can be tested via your haematocrit level. Nevertheless this testing method is rather inacurate and never really proves that u used EPO. There is only a chance that you did so to speak. Moreover influencing your haematocrit level is rather easy (exessive fluid intake for example). For endurance Pefromance i would defenatly recommend EPO.

Kynoselen - hm.. don't know. Some like it some don't.. it is perfectly legal afaik so its up to you.

Slin - defenitly recommend it. It is an excelent way of manipulating your bodys glycogen storage capacities. Detection chance is minimal at best.

igf-1 /HGH - afaik igf-1 is not tested - or can not be tested reliable. But as it increases protein synthesis it is of no use for your aim IMO. i'd rather use HGH as it has a direct effect on fat oxidation..

plz feel free to correct me, if i got something wrong in here as it is not my typical field of interest.

**IronFreakX** · 08-04-2006, 04:47 AM

Originally Posted by AleX-69

maybe you would be better off asking these questions in the IFG, HGH forum..

i am not that expierenced with those substances but i have some input nevertheless:

nolva/hcg - wouldn't use it. Detetcion is rather easy in urine as the human body produces almost no HCG.

EPO - There is no way of detecing it directly.. But it can be tested via your haematocrit level. Nevertheless this testing method is rather inacurate and never really proves that u used EPO. There is only a chance that you did so to speak. Moreover influencing your haematocrit level is rather easy (exessive fluid intake for example). For endurance Pefromance i would defenatly recommend EPO.

Kynoselen - hm.. don't know. Some like it some don't.. it is perfectly legal afaik so its up to you.

Slin - defenitly recommend it. It is an excelent way of manipulating your bodys glycogen storage capacities. Detection chance is minimal at best.

igf-1 /HGH - afaik igf-1 is not tested - or can not be tested reliable. But as it increases protein synthesis it is of no use for your aim IMO. i'd rather use HGH as it has a direct effect on fat oxidation..

plz feel free to correct me, if i got something wrong in here as it is not my typical field of interest.

Im not worried about detection that much as its not for a year...if not 1.5 years...unless something stays for longer....I doubt it

I do not care about fat loss, muscle gain etc.... they just come when I start working out , that's not my main interest really.....

What about the loss of preformance?? I'll try to explain it...

When you take caffiene....you get a boost...you go off it you lose the boost

Temporary preformance gain

When you exercise harder, eat more and keep it up of course

Permanent gain (permanent with limits and factors I mean)

my question is Will these "supps" give you an edge and lose it when u quit em or will it simply increase preformance, give u a push then slow down the gains but not decrease when quitting...just back to normal gains but with the aqquired gains from the supps?

I hope that makes it clear...thanx

**AleX-69** · 08-04-2006, 04:55 AM

Originally Posted by IronFreakX

Im not worried about detection that much as its not for a year...if not 1.5 years...unless something stays for longer....I doubt it

I do not care about fat loss, muscle gain etc.... they just come when I start working out , that's not my main interest really.....

What about the loss of preformance?? I'll try to explain it...

When you take caffiene....you get a boost...you go off it you lose the boost

Temporary preformance gain

When you exercise harder, eat more and keep it up of course

Permanent gain (permanent with limits and factors I mean)

my question is Will these "supps" give you an edge and lose it when u quit em or will it simply increase preformance, give u a push then slow down the gains but not decrease when quitting...just back to normal gains but with the aqquired gains from the supps?

I hope that makes it clear...thanx

ok none of these "supplements" is detectable for that long time period. Most are only detectable for some days at best.

The only substance which would provide a possible permanent peformance boost is IGF-1 or HGH.
All other effects (EPO- RBC count, SLIN-increased glycogen storage,...) are lost in a short time frame after cessation of the drug. Some are lost really fast like SLINs effects and others take longer to completly dissapear (EPO)..

**IronFreakX** · 08-04-2006, 05:03 AM

Originally Posted by AleX-69

ok none of these "supplements" is detectable for that long time period. Most are only detectable for some days at best.

The only substance which would provide a possible permanent peformance boost is IGF-1 or HGH.
All other effects (EPO- RBC count, SLIN-increased glycogen storage,...) are lost in a short time frame after cessation of the drug. Some are lost really fast like SLINs effects and others take longer to completly dissapear (EPO)..

Yeah slin is a lil back stabbing bitch, you love it when ur on...then u quit...boom where the hell did my pump and recovery go....

Ok but theoritcally, they would help increase the preformance and the body would continue doing it if kept at that SAME level of training even i quit em??

Im having a hard time trying to explain cause Im sleep deprvied,

Ok

this should help

Me: running 12 miles a day.....start the "supp" program....lets say go up to 15miles...and time isnt increased for 3 miles but 2 (that would be nice

)

Neway so I quit the supps, now what?? I go back to 12 or am I still at 15 but advancing from 15-17 will take longer than when I went from 12-15 and thats the only drawback??

**AleX-69** · 08-04-2006, 05:35 AM

mh.. hard to answer: i try

using EPO.

if you did run 12 miles without EPO
you are able to run 15 miles with EPO (or run 12 miles significantly faster, whatever you want)
but after cessation of EPO you will only be running 12 miles again (leaving out all other training aspects)

using HGH / IGF-1 might be another story, but my problem is i do not know in how far IGF and HGH enchance aerobic capacity.

**IronFreakX** · 08-04-2006, 05:58 AM

Originally Posted by AleX-69

mh.. hard to answer: i try

using EPO.

if you did run 12 miles without EPO
you are able to run 15 miles with EPO (or run 12 miles significantly faster, whatever you want)
but after cessation of EPO you will only be running 12 miles again (leaving out all other training aspects)

using HGH / IGF-1 might be another story, but my problem is i do not know in how far IGF and HGH enchance aerobic capacity.

So basically its like a really big dose of caffiene?? (well not really cause after a certain point caffiene will start doing more bad than good and the mechanisms of both compounds are different but figurativly)

So its basically just a boost then back to normal....that doesnt quite fit in right

So the only "permanent" gain from these would be that they push you beyond ur normal limits and basically you lose some when off but keep some due to some muscle memory or endurance when doing the running on the supps??

ehh I need to sleep and get a crash course on this subject

**AleX-69** · 08-04-2006, 06:02 AM

Originally Posted by IronFreakX

So the only "permanent" gain from these would be that they push you beyond ur normal limits and basically you lose some when off but keep some due to some muscle memory or endurance when doing the running on the supps??

EPO increases RBC count therefore your blood can carry more oxgen. Due to cell turn over this effect is lost after some time and so is the peformance enchancing effect of EPO.

Did you ever run EQ, or TEst. Well those also increase RBC but after drug cessaction your aerobic capacity returns to normal.

You are looking for a permanent increase in RBC, do you?

**AleX-69** · 08-04-2006, 06:05 AM

AFAIK there are EPO implants available .. maybe this would be an option

**IronFreakX** · 08-04-2006, 06:16 AM

Originally Posted by AleX-69

EPO increases RBC count therefore your blood can carry more oxgen. Due to cell turn over this effect is lost after some time and so is the peformance enchancing effect of EPO.

Did you ever run EQ, or TEst. Well those also increase RBC but after drug cessaction your aerobic capacity returns to normal.

You are looking for a permanent increase in RBC, do you?

Kool Kool

nah man Im just looking to increase my preformance ALOT gene doping neone??

I do push myself beyond my limits, till I puke from running, till I do so many pushups that when I do one more my arms shake and It takes me a long time of stuggle, till I almost drown from swimming etc....

Id say Im doing VERY GOOD but we always want more dont we??

AFAIK there are EPO implants available .. maybe this would be an option

Hell no!!! I just want something to help me out this year then Im off to the SEALS..hopefully

Thanx for your help btw, I could barely understand my own posts