b6 - included or not..

[stupidhippo]

I just read about B6 having some anti-streroid hormone action.. acts on supposedly on many different steroid receptors.. or inhibits their attachment.. anyways Im asking for anecdotal evidence from ppl who have used it in big doses (about 200mg a day) that did they notice any differences while using it or not... since im gonna run deca in my cycle I wouldnt mind the safety b6 brings ....

[Ufa]

I use it. Deca also. I take so many dam vitimans and whatever's. It's
like a meal it's self.

[stupidhippo]

any1 done a cycle including deca with and without b6... notice any difference?

[guest589745]

200mg ed b6 to reduce prolactin levels, anymore can become toxic supposedly. use it with 19nors. Not sure if other aas raise prolactin besides 19nors.....

[stupidhippo]

i know that skull but what Im trying to find out is that does it effect the gains or not? Id like to hear from ppl who have done deca with b6 and without..

[guest589745]

It shouldnt effect gains too much if at all. It is just taken for prolactin reduction, not to increase gains directly. You should take it IMO.

[Swifto]

200mg ed b6 to reduce prolactin levels, anymore can become toxic supposedly. use it with 19nors. Not sure if other aas raise prolactin besides 19nors.....

Certainly can. 100mg/ED is what I'd use. Over 200mg/ED has been shown to damage the CNS.

Sorry. No experience on using it with/without Deca though.

[Property of Steroid.com]

Vitamin b6 isn't a great idea to include on a cycle. Elevated levels of b6 will inhibit androgen gene transcription levels by 30-45%. Gene Transcription is how steroids exert their effects. Therefore, if you elevate your b6 too high, you could be getting around a third less of the effects from the steroids you're taking.

Vitamin B6 modulates transcriptional activation by multiple members of the steroid hormone receptor superfamily.

• Allgood VE,
• Cidlowski JA.

Department of Physiology, University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill 27599-7545.
Recent studies have shown that vitamin B6 modulates transcriptional activation by the human glucocorticoid receptor in HeLa S3 cells. We have now examined the possibility that vitamin B6 might similarly influence transcriptional activation by the glucocorticoid receptor in other cell types, as well as gene expression mediated by other members of the steroid hormone receptor superfamily. We show that elevated vitamin B6 concentrations suppress by 40-65% the level of transcription mediated through the endogenous murine L cell glucocorticoid receptor, as well as the human receptor transfected into E8.2 and T47D cells. In contrast, glucocorticoid receptor-mediated transcription was enhanced 60-110% in mild vitamin deficiency. The level of hormone-independent constitutive gene expression was not affected by these same alterations in vitamin B6 concentration. These studies indicated that the transcriptional modulatory effects of the vitamin were neither restricted to specific cell types nor limited to the human form of the glucocorticoid receptor. We next determined if hormone-induced transcription by several other steroid receptors (androgen, progesterone, and estrogen receptors) was analogously affected by alterations in vitamin B6 concentration. Analysis of gene expression mediated through the mouse mammary tumor virus promoter revealed that transcriptional activation of both the androgen and progesterone receptors was reduced by 35-40% under conditions of elevated vitamin B6 and enhanced by 60-90% in deficiency, again under conditions where constitutive expression was unaffected. Using a different promoter, the estrogen-regulated vitellogenin promoter, we found that transcriptional activation of the estrogen receptor was similarly affected. Estrogen-induced gene expression was reduced by 30% under conditions of elevated intracellular vitamin B6 and enhanced by 85% in vitamin deficiency. Thus, vitamin B6 modulates transcriptional activation by multiple classes of steroid hormone receptors. The similarities in vitamin B6 effects on transcription mediated through different promoters, the mouse mammary tumor virus and vitellogenin promoters, suggest that this vitamin may modulate the expression of a diverse array of hormonally responsive genes. These observations together support the hypothesis that vitamin B6 represents a physiological modulator of steroid hormone action.
PMID: 1310983 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

[marcus300]

Ive used b6 with many different steroids and at many different dosages and to be true full i would rather use it within a cycle than not, at high dose i would recommend it but a dose of under 200mg ed is fine and i feel as benefits on the cycle, b6 as alot of other benefits aswell its an important nutrient that supports more vital bodily functions than any other vitamin,

This is due to its role as a coenzyme involved in the metabolism of carbohydrates, fats, and proteins. B6 is also responsible for the manufacture of hormones, red blood cells, neurotransmitters, enzymes and prostaglandins. B6 is required for the production of serotonin, a brain neurotransmitter that controls our moods, appetite, sleep patterns, and sensitivity to pain. A deficiency of vitamin B6 can quickly lead to insomnia and a profound malfunctioning of the central nervous system.

Among its many benefits, vitamin B6 is recognized for helping to maintain healthy immune system functions, for protecting the heart from cholesterol deposits, and for preventing kidney stone formation. B6 is also effective in the treatment of carpal tunnel syndrome, premenstrual syndrome, night leg cramps, allergies, asthma and arthritis.

Common symptoms of vitamin B6 deficiency can include depression, vomiting, anemia, kidney stones, dermatitis, lethargy and increased susceptibility to diseases due to a weakened immune system.

[Property of Steroid.com]

A deficiency of vitamin B6 can quickly lead to insomnia and a profound malfunctioning of the central nervous system.

....and an increase in androgen gene-transcription.

I think there's no need to supplement B6 to any level higher than you find in a multi-vitamin. I think, in fact, that it's pretty counter-productive on a cycle.

[sofus99]

Anthony, any info on how high levels of B6 it takes to get the negative effect?

In addition to my daily multi vitamin, containing something like 5 mg B6 I think, I also take 2 multi-B tablets as part of my ZMA combo, each containing 15 mg B6, so that is around 35 mg B6 daily.

I know that when people say "high doses" they usually mean 100-200 mg or more, but I'd certainly reconsider my daily dose if there is a negative effect at 35 mg, even if it is only like 5%-10%.

[RA]

Ive used b6 with many different steroids and at many different dosages and to be true full i would rather use it within a cycle than not, at high dose i would recommend it but a dose of under 200mg ed is fine and i feel as benefits on the cycle, b6 as alot of other benefits aswell its an important nutrient that supports more vital bodily functions than any other vitamin,

This is due to its role as a coenzyme involved in the metabolism of carbohydrates, fats, and proteins. B6 is also responsible for the manufacture of hormones, red blood cells, neurotransmitters, enzymes and prostaglandins. B6 is required for the production of serotonin, a brain neurotransmitter that controls our moods, appetite, sleep patterns, and sensitivity to pain. A deficiency of vitamin B6 can quickly lead to insomnia and a profound malfunctioning of the central nervous system.

Among its many benefits, vitamin B6 is recognized for helping to maintain healthy immune system functions, for protecting the heart from cholesterol deposits, and for preventing kidney stone formation. B6 is also effective in the treatment of carpal tunnel syndrome, premenstrual syndrome, night leg cramps, allergies, asthma and arthritis.

Common symptoms of vitamin B6 deficiency can include depression, vomiting, anemia, kidney stones, dermatitis, lethargy and increased susceptibility to diseases due to a weakened immune system.

Thats cool. Hadnt seen that one before.

[Property of Steroid.com]

Anthony, any info on how high levels of B6 it takes to get the negative effect?

In addition to my daily multi vitamin, containing something like 5 mg B6 I think, I also take 2 multi-B tablets as part of my ZMA combo, each containing 15 mg B6, so that is around 35 mg B6 daily.

I know that when people say "high doses" they usually mean 100-200 mg or more, but I'd certainly reconsider my daily dose if there is a negative effect at 35 mg, even if it is only like 5%-10%.

Basically, a dose high enough to fight prolactin or progesterone is going to be high enough to inhibit androgen gene-transcription. I'd say you should keep it no higher than 50mgs, at most.

[marcus300]

....and an increase in androgen gene-transcription.

I think there's no need to supplement B6 to any level higher than you find in a multi-vitamin. I think, in fact, that it's pretty counter-productive on a cycle.

All i can give is experience running it with cycles and without and for me i would supplement it with cycles, suppose what people need to do is try it both ways and see for themselves.

[stupidhippo]

good discussion.. good ole AR knows his stuff... I remember bumping into sumin like that and was asking the question to confirm. Also like MArcuses input (anecdotal evidence is important), suggesting there might not be so big direct effect on the results.. So what I am gonna do is use B6 if I feel there is need to combat prolactin issues.. othen than that Ill be satisfied with the many times above RDA I get from my multivita..

[jcstanto]

I usually take 100mcg. (injectable) twice a week to keep my appetite going. When I don’t take it, its like I don’t have an appetite at all.

[Property of Steroid.com]

The only reason I know this about B6 is because I've been contacted by a supplement company who is releasing a new AI and they were going to target the AAS crowd with it....they wanted to put B6 in it, and I did some research and said that the AAS crowd might like B6 to fight progesteronic sides, but certainly won't like having 30-45% of their steroid 's effects being stopped. So B6 will not be in their new AI...

[Swifto]

Excellent information.

[chuckt12345]

great ive been takin about 300mg's a day from another post i read,, guess ill cut it down a bit.

[Swifto]

Not to question your findings Anthony, but this study is on mice, correct? Have you adjusted your use of Vit-B6 due to your findings?

And.....I'm watching you...

[AnabolicBoy1981]

Basically, a dose high enough to fight prolactin or progesterone is going to be high enough to inhibit androgen gene-transcription. I'd say you should keep it no higher than 50mgs, at most.

So without b6 will bromo and caber be enough to fight prolactin ?

[Property of Steroid.com]

Not to question your findings Anthony, but this study is on mice, correct? Have you adjusted your use of Vit-B6 due to your findings?

And.....I'm watching you...

Correct. It's on mice. But you can do a search on Pubmed and dig up some studies showing that it has this same effect on humans.

I haven't adjusted my use of Vitamin b6 because all I take is a multi that gives me 100% of everything. I know, it's lame, and people always expect that I take a million supplenents or whatever, but as for vitamins, all I take is a cheap multi. The only other supplement I take besides fat burners and protein is grapeseed extract.

[Swifto]

Correct. It's on mice. But you can do a search on Pubmed and dig up some studies showing that it has this same effect on humans.

I haven't adjusted my use of Vitamin b6 because all I take is a multi that gives me 100% of everything. I know, it's lame, and people always expect that I take a million supplenents or whatever, but as for vitamins, all I take is a cheap multi. The only other supplement I take besides fat burners and protein is grapeseed extract.

Thanks for your time Anthony.

[ant_8u]

so what about things like bromo?

[marcus300]

I think best thing to do here is not listen to studies because they always conflict and everybody is different when we put certain compounds in the human body we all react differently,

Try cycling with B6 and try without and if you think it was a advantage using it stick with it and if not discontinue using it, its that simple,

do whats best for the individual and his body.

[goalseeker]

yeah, thats what I'd do.....try it and judge for yourself....
It is interesting to read what the studies have to say as well though...

[guest589745]

I am noticing huge differences in my energy when taking 800+mg of B-6. Definately noticeable.

[guest589745]

The only reason I know this about B6 is because I've been contacted by a supplement company who is releasing a new AI and they were going to target the AAS crowd with it....they wanted to put B6 in it, and I did some research and said that the AAS crowd might like B6 to fight progesteronic sides, but certainly won't like having 30-45% of their steroid's effects being stopped. So B6 will not be in their new AI...

Can you elaborate on this? Why would their steroids be effected like this?

[guest589745]

Basically, a dose high enough to fight prolactin or progesterone is going to be high enough to inhibit androgen gene-transcription. I'd say you should keep it no higher than 50mgs, at most.

Really !?

[Swifto]

I am noticing huge differences in my energy when taking 800+mg of B-6. Definately noticeable.

Dont you mean B-12?

[guest589745]

Dont you mean B-12?

No, Im pretty sure its b-6.


*edit, apparently it has b12 in it as well.

[Swifto]

I am noticing huge differences in my energy when taking 800+mg of B-6. Definately noticeable.

So...

You notice a masive difference when you take Vit-B6 at 800mg/ED?

[Swifto]

Perhaps you should read this if your taking "800mg/ED" of Vit-b6. Originally posted by Meso.

Too much vitamin B6 can result in nerve damage to the arms and legs. This neuropathy is usually related to high intake of vitamin B6 from supplements, [2] and is reversible when supplementation is stopped. According to the Institute of Medicine, "Several reports show sensory neuropathy at doses lower than 500 mg per day" [1]. As previously mentioned, the Food and Nutrition Board of the Institute of Medicine has established an upper tolerable intake level (UL) for vitamin B6 of 100 mg per day for all adults [1]. "As intake increases above the UL, the risk of adverse effects increases [1]."

[1] Institute of Medicine. Food and Nutrition Board. Dietary Reference Intakes: Thiamin, riboflavin, niacin, vitamin B6, folate, vitamin B12, pantothenic acid, biotin, and choline. National Academy Press. Washington, DC, 1998.

[2] Selhub J, Jacques PF, Bostom AG, D'Agostino RB, Wilson PW, Belanger AJ, O'Leary DH, Wolf PA, Scaefer EJ, Rosenberg IH. Association between plasma homocysteine concentrations and extracranial carotid-artery stenosis. N Engl J Med 1995; 332:286-291.

And...

Vitamin B6 and the nervous system
Vitamin B6 is needed for the synthesis of neurotransmitters such as serotonin and dopamine . These neurotransmitters are required for normal nerve cell communication. Researchers have been investigating the relationship between vitamin B6 status and a wide variety of neurologic conditions such as seizures, chronic pain, depression, headache, and Parkinson's disease [1].

Lower levels of serotonin have been found in individuals suffering from depression and migraine headaches. So far, however, vitamin B6 supplements have not proved effective for relieving these symptoms. One study found that a sugar pill was just as likely as vitamin B6 to relieve headaches and depression associated with low dose oral contraceptives [2].

Alcohol abuse can result in neuropathy, abnormal nerve sensations in the arms and legs [3]. A poor dietary intake contributes to this neuropathy and dietary supplements that include vitamin B6 may prevent or decrease its incidence [1].

Vitamin B6 and carpal tunnel syndrome
Vitamin B6 was first recommended for carpal tunnel syndrome almost 30 years ago [4]. Several popular books still recommend taking 100 to 200 milligrams (mg) of vitamin B6 daily to treat carpal tunnel syndrome, even though scientific studies do not indicate it is effective. Anyone taking large doses of vitamin B6 supplements for carpal tunnel syndrome needs to be aware that the Institute of Medicine recently established an upper tolerable limit of 100 mg per day for adults. There are documented cases in the literature of neuropathy caused by excessive vitamin B6 taken for treatment of carpal tunnel syndrome [5].

[1]Bernstein AL. Vitamin B6 in clinical neurology. Ann N Y Acad Sci 1990;585:250-60.

[2]Villegas-Salas E, Ponce de Leon R, Juarez-Perez MA, Grubb GS. Effect of vitamin B6 on the side effects of a low-dose combined oral contraceptive. Contraception 1997; 55:245-8.

[3]Vinik AI. Diabetic neuropathy: pathogenesis and therapy. Am J Med 1999; 107:17S-26S.

[4]Copeland DA and Stoukides CA. Pyridoxine in carpal tunnel syndrome. Ann Pharmacother 1994; 28:1042-4.

[5]Foca FJ. Motor and sensory neuropathy secondary to excessive pyridoxine ingestion. Arch Phys Med Rehabil 1985; 66:634-6.

[guest589745]

So...

You notice a masive difference when you take Vit-B6 at 800mg/ED?

My bad, its actually 8000mcg, so thats only 8mg. It has 800mcg of b12 too.

I just got this shit, read the label wrong.

Its been a few days and I seriously am noticing a huge difference honestly. Almost like ephedrine but not quite.

[guest589745]

Perhaps you should read this if your taking "800mg/ED" of Vit-b6. Originally posted by Meso.

Too much vitamin B6 can result in nerve damage to the arms and legs. This neuropathy is usually related to high intake of vitamin B6 from supplements, [2] and is reversible when supplementation is stopped. According to the Institute of Medicine, "Several reports show sensory neuropathy at doses lower than 500 mg per day" [1]. As previously mentioned, the Food and Nutrition Board of the Institute of Medicine has established an upper tolerable intake level (UL) for vitamin B6 of 100 mg per day for all adults [1]. "As intake increases above the UL, the risk of adverse effects increases [1]."

[1] Institute of Medicine. Food and Nutrition Board. Dietary Reference Intakes: Thiamin, riboflavin, niacin, vitamin B6, folate, vitamin B12, pantothenic acid, biotin, and choline. National Academy Press. Washington, DC, 1998.

[2] Selhub J, Jacques PF, Bostom AG, D'Agostino RB, Wilson PW, Belanger AJ, O'Leary DH, Wolf PA, Scaefer EJ, Rosenberg IH. Association between plasma homocysteine concentrations and extracranial carotid-artery stenosis. N Engl J Med 1995; 332:286-291.

And...

Vitamin B6 and the nervous system
Vitamin B6 is needed for the synthesis of neurotransmitters such as serotonin and dopamine . These neurotransmitters are required for normal nerve cell communication. Researchers have been investigating the relationship between vitamin B6 status and a wide variety of neurologic conditions such as seizures, chronic pain, depression, headache, and Parkinson's disease [1].

Lower levels of serotonin have been found in individuals suffering from depression and migraine headaches. So far, however, vitamin B6 supplements have not proved effective for relieving these symptoms. One study found that a sugar pill was just as likely as vitamin B6 to relieve headaches and depression associated with low dose oral contraceptives [2].

Alcohol abuse can result in neuropathy, abnormal nerve sensations in the arms and legs [3]. A poor dietary intake contributes to this neuropathy and dietary supplements that include vitamin B6 may prevent or decrease its incidence [1].

Vitamin B6 and carpal tunnel syndrome
Vitamin B6 was first recommended for carpal tunnel syndrome almost 30 years ago [4]. Several popular books still recommend taking 100 to 200 milligrams (mg) of vitamin B6 daily to treat carpal tunnel syndrome, even though scientific studies do not indicate it is effective. Anyone taking large doses of vitamin B6 supplements for carpal tunnel syndrome needs to be aware that the Institute of Medicine recently established an upper tolerable limit of 100 mg per day for adults. There are documented cases in the literature of neuropathy caused by excessive vitamin B6 taken for treatment of carpal tunnel syndrome [5].

[1]Bernstein AL. Vitamin B6 in clinical neurology. Ann N Y Acad Sci 1990;585:250-60.

[2]Villegas-Salas E, Ponce de Leon R, Juarez-Perez MA, Grubb GS. Effect of vitamin B6 on the side effects of a low-dose combined oral contraceptive. Contraception 1997; 55:245-8.

[3]Vinik AI. Diabetic neuropathy: pathogenesis and therapy. Am J Med 1999; 107:17S-26S.

[4]Copeland DA and Stoukides CA. Pyridoxine in carpal tunnel syndrome. Ann Pharmacother 1994; 28:1042-4.

[5]Foca FJ. Motor and sensory neuropathy secondary to excessive pyridoxine ingestion. Arch Phys Med Rehabil 1985; 66:634-6.

Sorry to make you post that, I just misread the label.


How much do you use on cycle? What hooker posted has me concerned about over using it......

[Swifto]

Not to worry. If you havent seen it, make sure you adjust your Vit-B6 intake if you were taking more.

[Swifto]

My bad, its actually 8000mcg, so thats only 8mg. It has 800mcg of b12 too.

I just got this shit, read the label wrong.

Its been a few days and I seriously am noticing a huge difference honestly. Almost like ephedrine but not quite.

Injection or Tab?

[guest589745]

Injection or Tab?

Tab.

[Swifto]

Tab.

I use B-12 Tabs too but have heard from many their efetiveness is poor. I havent found this at all though. It definitely gives me a kick in the morning with my other vitamins/minerls.

The injection is meant to be VERY good and I'll be trying it soon.

[guest589745]

I also noticed I felt more calm and relaxed when suing like 8g+ of vit C ed but had stomach problems.