AI's,Serms,AAS,PCT

**Anabolios** · 08-21-2006, 11:07 PM

OK...where to start?
I'm always researching the use of AI's and serms and their place on cycle and pct to prevent side effects. Letro is GREAT at reducing estrogen..almost too low and it has gyno reversal properties. Arimidex /liquidex is very effective at reducing estrogen. Proviron has a positive effect on the libido and reduces SHBG freeing up more testosterone . Aromisin reduces estrogen by 85% (correct if im wrong please) and increases testosterone. I also heard that aromasin can cause androgenic side effects such as acne because of the raise in testosterone

What do you use on cycle to prevent estrogen related sides like bloat and gyno?
Acne can supposedly be estrogen related so what do you use to prevent acne on cycle?
Which would be best added to a nolva/clomid or nolva only pct.
I'm just looking to spark a bit of discussion on what place in your cycle/pct these compounds have and which do you prefer and why

Discusssssssss

**T3/T4 GSR** · 08-21-2006, 11:13 PM

Well I can't comment quite yet but my nipples got a little sore after my second week of test, deca , dbol (most likely fro mthe dbol) so I bought some letro. Will see just how effective it is against gyno. I am thinking of starting it at the end of this week when I am done with the dbol.

**Anabolios** · 08-22-2006, 10:55 AM

I'm sure it will do the trick. Bump for more input. Also, cabergoline...does it have a place in your cycle or pct?

**V_Vandetta** · 08-22-2006, 11:15 AM

I my self and using letro because of how my body works as far as PCt go's i am likeing Adex through out PCt with HcG then a 2-3 run of clomid and if I feel the Adex is not combatting any sides than may go with letro again the reason I wont use Nolva Is becasue of my deca usage how ever there I is a compound I ran into that was IM inject thats once amonth I will see if i can dig it up

**V_Vandetta** · 08-22-2006, 11:19 AM

found it

Falsodex is an estrogen receptor antagonist, which has no agonist effects at all. What it does is downregulates Estrogen Receptors (kinda like how Clen DownRegulates your beta receptors....so you get decreased effects from the stuff). Basically, it binds to the Estrogen Receptor more strongly then Tamoxifen , but still has no estrogen agonist effects.

The resultant down regulation of your Estrogen Receptors from the use of Falsodex results in decreased expression of the Progesterone Receptor as well! Tamoxifen, as we all know, can increase the sides from progesteronic drugs because of an increase in progesterone receptor expression. You can take Falsodex as both an anti-estrogen and an anti-progestin. You do not need to buy Arimidex (or similar drugs), and Bromocriptine!

Falsodex is administered via an IM injection of 250mgs once per month! And at that dose, it has have most if not all of the same estrogen lowering effects of 1mg/day of Arim or 2.5mgs per day of Letrozole , but has the added benefits of lowering progesterone receptor expression.

**magic32** · 08-22-2006, 11:26 AM

Personally, I use and love Aromasin . Never had any acne problems with it.

M.

**Swifto** · 08-22-2006, 12:43 PM

Originally Posted by Anabolios

OK...where to start?
I'm always researching the use of AI's and serms and their place on cycle and pct to prevent side effects. Letro is GREAT at reducing estrogen..almost too low and it has gyno reversal properties. Arimidex /liquidex is very effective at reducing estrogen. Proviron has a positive effect on the libido and reduces SHBG freeing up more testosterone . Aromisin reduces estrogen by 85% (correct if im wrong please) and increases testosterone. I also heard that aromasin can cause androgenic side effects such as acne because of the raise in testosterone

What do you use on cycle to prevent estrogen related sides like bloat and gyno?
I've used Proviron at 25mg/ED. Its kept bloat down and gyno sides to a minimum. I did have a little lump at the 12 week mark and wish I was running something with more estrogen reducing effects. Given the choice, it would be Aromasin. This is what compound I'll use whilst "on" next and possibly a low dose of Proviron 25mg/EOD or E2D as it reduces SHBG so dramatically. I know Aromasin does this, but its not as effective IMHO. Nolva on hand.
Acne can supposedly be estrogen related so what do you use to prevent acne on cycle? Nothing yet...As I've still got fu*king acne! Aromasin may help next time as it reduces estorgen more effectively than Proviron does IMO. Or Letro low dose. But...Then we risk sides related to low estrogen levels...Sore joints, lower immune system etc..

Anoter idea is to reduce levels of DHT via using a 5-alpha-reductase inhibitor. Just a thought as I've read acne can be a side of increase DHT levels.

Antioboitics are ok. The Tetracyline familly have had good reviews. Though, I've been on one of them for 5-6 weeks and havnt seen much. I;m told it takes months...?

Retnoids! Isotretinoin, or better known, Accutane. Its VERY toxic and shouldnt be combined with any AS for this reason. With bloodwork, I think that statement should be slightly relaxed. Getting a full blood panel every 3-4 weeks, I may warrant its use. But with orals...No! I've read about BB doing 20mg/E4D with good results, cycling or not.

Nizoral is a good addition to combating acne IMO. Washing regulary leaving it on the effected area for 4-5 mins E3D.

Which would be best added to a nolva/clomid or nolva only pct.
I'm just looking to spark a bit of discussion on what place in your cycle/pct these compounds have and which do you prefer and why

A SERM/AI is a good start. If I were to choose one, it would have to be Aromasin again. Lowers SHBG, low/no rebound, doesnt drive estrogen down to low, doesnt conflict with other compounds metobolizing, ie: Nolva can reduce plasma concentrations of Arimidex by up to 23% (If I remember correctly?).

I've said this once and I'll say it again. I think, eventually, SERM's, wont have much of a place during PCT. Why block estrogens effects, and spend money doing so, when you can reduce them and raise serum concentrations of LH/FSH and Testosterone? From a cost point of view, its not optimal.Discusssssssss

BOLDS

**Anabolios** · 08-22-2006, 02:40 PM

Originally Posted by Swifto

BOLDS

Thanks for the input everyone. Does cabergoline have a place on cycle? I'm not too familiar with it but I heard it can drastically raise the sex drive. I've also heard that aromasin will block estrogen very well but it can have androgenic sides to it. If you're trying to reduce estrogen related acne then aromasin might be causing it as well...maybe I'm wrong. What is an example of a 5-alpha-reductase inhibitor? Sorry for all the questions but I think this is a good topic for discussion!

**Anabolios** · 08-22-2006, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by V_Vandetta

found it

Falsodex is an estrogen receptor antagonist, which has no agonist effects at all. What it does is downregulates Estrogen Receptors (kinda like how Clen DownRegulates your beta receptors....so you get decreased effects from the stuff). Basically, it binds to the Estrogen Receptor more strongly then Tamoxifen , but still has no estrogen agonist effects.

The resultant down regulation of your Estrogen Receptors from the use of Falsodex results in decreased expression of the Progesterone Receptor as well! Tamoxifen, as we all know, can increase the sides from progesteronic drugs because of an increase in progesterone receptor expression. You can take Falsodex as both an anti-estrogen and an anti-progestin. You do not need to buy Arimidex (or similar drugs), and Bromocriptine!

Falsodex is administered via an IM injection of 250mgs once per month! And at that dose, it has have most if not all of the same estrogen lowering effects of 1mg/day of Arim or 2.5mgs per day of Letrozole, but has the added benefits of lowering progesterone receptor expression.

Very interesting. I want to learn more about this..looks very interesting

**Swifto** · 08-22-2006, 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by Anabolios

Thanks for the input everyone. Does cabergoline have a place on cycle? I'm not too familiar with it but I heard it can drastically raise the sex drive. I've also heard that aromasin will block estrogen very well but it can have androgenic sides to it. If you're trying to reduce estrogen related acne then aromasin might be causing it as well...maybe I'm wrong. What is an example of a 5-alpha-reductase inhibitor? Sorry for all the questions but I think this is a good topic for discussion!

Finastride is a member of that familly.

I didnt add IGF would be a good addition to PCT, also, Proviron and Clen . HGH is you got the money?

I've heard Proviron can cause acne too. I may drop it and see, for the start of my PCT protocol next cycle.

There are many positives/negatives for every compound. You just need to see what works for you.

**Anabolios** · 08-22-2006, 10:03 PM

Originally Posted by Swifto

Finastride is a member of that familly.

I didnt add IGF would be a good addition to PCT, also, Proviron and Clen . HGH is you got the money?

I've heard Proviron can cause acne too. I may drop it and see, for the start of my PCT protocol next cycle.

There are many positives/negatives for every compound. You just need to see what works for you.

Oh so the finastride would work in the same way nizoral would work topically? Something to that effect? Yes I've heard of proviron causing acne because I think it might be used in men with androgen deficiencies..or something like that I'm not exactly sure of it's medical purpose. But if that's what it's for then obviously it's likely to cause androgenic side effects. It's definetly an interesting drug.

Nobody with input on cabergoline? And if it has a place on cycle,during pct, or even off cycle???