First cycle question

**PetarChelik** · 09-07-2006, 12:15 PM

Hi guys!
I got one simple question.Im 29 yo ,112 kg about 11% of fat ,Ive been working out about year and a half.I look really buffed but I want improoved look( if you know what I mean).Recently I bought Galenika´s Test E,250mg amps.I got about 15 amps.Just to let you guys know Im not going to start my cycle yet.But I want to know if thats enough for a first cycle and what anti estrogens I should use.Also what should I do about my pct.
Thanx alot!!
Petar

**STEROIDZZ** · 09-07-2006, 12:43 PM

a lot of this can be answered with the search button and research... as for you saying your sources name i dont think that is wise might want to edit that out .... and with 15 amps of 250 thats only about 7 wks at 500mg i believe... therefore NO its not enough... recomended dose of test is 500 mg a wk divided into 2 shots... i would also prefer to run the test for 12 wks... As far as your PCT you should include both nolva/ clomid IMO .. clomid at 100mg and nolva at 20mg from 25 to 30 days depeding on how you feel... as far as a Anti - E i would suggest arimidex

**elitetky** · 09-07-2006, 12:48 PM

ok big guy u are 100kg abv i would recommend you get extra amp ,

1 - 12 weeks test e 750mg (monday , thursday, sunday) Because you are big

PCT

clomid will do the trick !

u have no need for anti e because of your gear but if you want you can get nolvaex on hand

**STEROIDZZ** · 09-07-2006, 12:53 PM

You suggested theres no need for a anti e because of his gear?? test e converts into estrogen rapidly.. plz dont give advice if you dont know what your talking about... i would always suggest taking a anti e while on cycle.. better safer then not... and 750mg a weeek is way too high for him right now... although it would be benifical if his cycle experience was shown.. but depending on his cycle which i dont think he's done very many 750 isnt neccessary at all .... btw big has nothing to do with it... its based on experience, routine, diet.. ect....)... as well as clomid only for pct is horrible advice.... .. Take clomid at 100mg a day. and nolva at 20mg a day from 25 to 30 days depending on how you feel.. may need to be longer .. just depends on you..... ( plz dont give out advice if you dont know what your talking about ( no offense)

**Daemonn** · 09-07-2006, 01:12 PM

Originally Posted by elitetky

ok big guy u are 100kg abv i would recommend you get extra amp ,

1 - 12 weeks test e 750mg (monday , thursday, sunday) Because you are big

PCT

clomid will do the trick !

u have no need for anti e because of your gear but if you want you can get nolvaex on hand

The shittiest advice I have ever heard. Dude, if you dont have a clue WTF ur talking about at least keep it to yourself. You want the guy to run 750mg of test for his first cycle because he's big??? Damn, where do you people come from?

Threadstarter, you should research a lot more before you jump into a cycle. Nevertheless, here's my 2 cents:

test e 500mg EW, 2x250, 10 weeks (is long enough), you need 5 more amps
PCT Nolva 40/40/20/20 for 4 weeks or until you fully recover. I dont like Clomid, nor do I think its necessary.
If you wanna run an AI during cycle its up to you. I would have some dex or letro handy but I would use it only if I needed to. Modern AIs really work well but they might have many sides. Good luck.

**Swifto** · 09-07-2006, 01:56 PM

Originally Posted by Daemonn

The shittiest advice I have ever heard. Dude, if you dont have a clue WTF ur talking about at least keep it to yourself. You want the guy to run 750mg of test for his first cycle because he's big??? Damn, where do you people come from?

Threadstarter, you should research a lot more before you jump into a cycle. Nevertheless, here's my 2 cents:

test e 500mg EW, 2x250, 10 weeks (is long enough), you need 5 more amps
PCT Nolva 40/40/20/20 for 4 weeks or until you fully recover. I dont like Clomid, nor do I think its necessary.
If you wanna run an AI during cycle its up to you. I would have some dex or letro handy but I would use it only if I needed to. Modern AIs really work well but they might have many sides. Good luck.

Correct.

I wouldnt use Letro though. I dont like the fact it reduces levels of estrogen so dramatically (98%). Use Aromasin or L-dex/Arimidex IMO.

I also like to combine HCG /Nolva/Proviron for PCT. Dont like Clomids effects at all.

**Daemonn** · 09-07-2006, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by Swifto

Correct.

I wouldnt use Letro though. I dont like the fact it reduces levels of estrogen so dramatically (98%). Use Aromasin or L-dex/Arimidex IMO.

I also like to combine HCG/Nolva/Proviron for PCT. Dont like Clomids effects at all.

Proviron is not good for PCT. It's a strong androgen and it'll will further supress your natty test production.
I like to use Proviron during a test cycle because it both helps control estrogen and increases free test levels. I combine that with 10mg Nolva ED and voila, a cheap and healthy antiestrogen. The trick here is to run Proviron all the way up to PCT and not to drop it two weeks earlier.

**PetarChelik** · 09-07-2006, 11:29 PM

Thx for all replies guys.I appreciate all help!!

**marcus300** · 09-07-2006, 11:42 PM

Originally Posted by Daemonn

Proviron is not good for PCT. It's a strong androgen and it'll will further supress your natty test production.
I like to use Proviron during a test cycle because it both helps control estrogen and increases free test levels. I combine that with 10mg Nolva ED and voila, a cheap and healthy antiestrogen. The trick here is to run Proviron all the way up to PCT and not to drop it two weeks earlier.

I am sorry but you are wrong about proviron, it doesnt affect your HPTA,when a low dose is given noramlly under 100mg ed, it doesnt have a depressing effect on low or normal serum FSH and LH levels, It an excellent drug to considering using it in pct and doesnt supress your natty test levels

**Daemonn** · 09-08-2006, 04:29 AM

Originally Posted by marcus300

I am sorry but you are wrong about proviron, it doesnt affect your HPTA,when a low dose is given noramlly under 100mg ed, it doesnt have a depressing effect on low or normal serum FSH and LH levels, It an excellent drug to considering using it in pct and doesnt supress your natty test levels

I am not saying you are necessarily wrong Marcus, I am still looking into it. For one thing, I never heard of anyone using mesterolone for PCT. Ever.
Secondly, I have found contradictory opinions about that. The following is an excerpt from a well-known board:

"Unlike what some suggest or believe, its not advised that Proviron be used when not used in conjunction with another steroid , as it too is quite suppressive of natural testosterone, leading to all sorts of future complications upon discontinuation. Ranging from loss of libido or erectile dysfunction all the way up to infertility. One would not be aware of such dangers because Proviron fulfills most of the functions of normal levels of testosterone ."

I sent Schering an e-mail and I'll let you know of the answer when it arrives.
I believe that ALL AAS supress your endogenous hormone production, even Anavar and Primo. I dont see why Proviron would be any different.

**marcus300** · 09-08-2006, 04:35 AM

No it doesnt under 100-150mg ED, ive used it many times and have had bloodwork done to see the results, many use it in pct and also a excellent drug to bridge because of the non supression,
sorry he is wrong,

**marcus300** · 09-08-2006, 04:38 AM

pls read the bold,

Click Drug Name to View Profile: Proviron

**KAEW44** · 09-08-2006, 04:46 AM

Man its good to see the guys helping out, i wish this website could reach out to more countries cause the country where i am working right now many young guys are doing horrbile cycles given to them by gym instructors who arent qualified or anything.
I've seen 10week Dianoabol/Deca cycles with absolutly no anti-e or ancillaries or even a PCT!!!!
The only test they have is Sustanon and they run it lower than Deca when they do use. They do no PCT, only if someone complains about any sexual sides they get an HCG shot just one!!
There is some seriosu Gyno in the gym i go to , its just horrible how many people refuse to ask or research before, just do what the coach sais!!

Thank god for this forum.

**Daemonn** · 09-08-2006, 05:02 AM

Fair enough. It looks like I was wrong. Of course there can be many studies on the same subject but with not the same results. I am still curious on what Schering has to say. If it does, indeed, increase LH then a its THE miracle drug, what can I say? Good work Marcus.

**marcus300** · 09-08-2006, 05:50 AM

There is always conflicting studies, best bet is to try it for yourself and see what works for you.

**Swifto** · 09-08-2006, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by Daemonn

Fair enough. It looks like I was wrong. Of course there can be many studies on the same subject but with not the same results. I am still curious on what Schering has to say. If it does, indeed, increase LH then a its THE miracle drug, what can I say? Good work Marcus.

Ahem...

Effect of non aromatizable androgens on LHRH and TRH responses in primary testicular failure.

Spitz IM, Margalioth EJ, Yeger Y, Livshin Y, Zylber-Haran E, Shilo S.

We have assessed the gonadotropin, TSH and PRL responses to the non aromatizable androgens, mesterolone and fluoxymestrone, in 27 patients with primary testicular failure. All patients were given a bolus of LHRH (100 micrograms) and TRH (200 micrograms) at zero time. Nine subjects received a further bolus of TRH at 30 mins. The latter were then given mesterolone 150 mg daily for 6 weeks. The remaining subjects received fluoxymesterone 5 mg daily for 4 weeks and 10 mg daily for 2 weeks. On the last day of the androgen administration, the subjects were re-challenged with LHRH and TRH according to the identical protocol. When compared to controls, the patients had normal circulating levels of testosterone, estradiol, PRL and thyroid hormones. However, basal LH, FSH and TSH levels, as well as gonadotropin responses to LHRH and TSH and PRL responses to TRH, were increased.

The effect of mesterolone on sperm count, on serum follicle stimulating hormone, luteinizing hormone, plasma testosterone and outcome in idiopathic oligospermic men.

Varma TR, Patel RH.

Department of Obstetrics & Gynaecology, St. George's Hospital Medical School London, U.K.

Two hundred fifty subfertile men with idiopathic oligospermia (count less than 20 million/ml) were treated with mesterolone (100-150 mg/day) for 12 months. Seminal analysis were assayed 3 times and serum follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) luteinizing hormone (LH) and plasma testosterone were assayed once before treatment and repeated at 3, 6, 9 and 12 months after the initiation of treatment. One hundred ten patients (44%) had normal serum FSH, LH and plasma testosterone, 85 patients (34%) had low serum FSH, LH and low plasma testosterone. One hundred seventy-five patients (70%) had moderate oligospermia (count 5 to less than 20 million/ml) and 75 patients (30%) had severe oligospermia (count less than 5 million/ml). Seventy-five moderately oligospermic patients showed significant improvement in the sperm density, total sperm count and motility following mesterolone therapy whereas only 12% showed improvement in the severe oligospermic group. Mesterolone had no depressing effect on low or normal serum FSH and LH levels but had depressing effect on 25% if the levels were elevated. There was no significant adverse effect on testosterone levels or on liver function. One hundred fifteen (46%) pregnancies resulted following the treatment, 9 of 115 (7.8%) aborted and 2 (1.7%) had ectopic pregnancy. Mesterolone was found to be more useful in patients with a sperm count ranging between 5 and 20 million/ml. Those with severe oligospermia (count less than 5 million) do not seem to benefit from this therapy.

Lastly...

Use Proviron during PCT!

Use PROVIRON during PCT!

**Swifto** · 09-08-2006, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by marcus300

There is always conflicting studies, best bet is to try it for yourself and see what works for you.

Yeah...But...I had to post it...

**Daemonn** · 09-08-2006, 02:08 PM

Originally Posted by Swifto

Yeah...But...I had to post it...

Still looking into it. Thanx for the refs. Im sure though that other studies exist that claim just the opposite. For instance, W. Llewellyn claims that Proviron is sometimes used to increase sperm count but the drug DOES NOT stimulate the body to produce testosterone . I will still use it during my cycle but for PCT I think I need to research a lil' more first.