First Cycle Suggestions?

[Daemonn]

Greetings,

I am 39 years old, been lifting consistenly for the last 4 years. 6", 185 pounds. My training consists mainly of compound moves with free weights like squats, benches, clean and presses, chins, barbell rows, deadlifts. I have decided to do my first cycle after researching and studying AAS for the last 8 months or so. My goal is to gain 15-20 pounds while holding on to as much as possible post-cycle. I really want to minimize sides since I am very prone to gyno and acne. My diet while on gear will be approx. 4000 cals, 300gr Protein, 400 gr carbs, 120-130 grams of fat, mostly good fats. Here's what I have decided to run:

1-10 test e (Schering testoviron ) 400mg EW, 250mg twice a week for the first 4 weeks, then 1 shot every 4 days.
1-4 Dbol (Russian methandrostenolone ) 20mg ED
1-12 Proviron 50mg ED (after that debate with mod Marcus I might extend it to PCT, so it might look like 1-12 50mg ED, 13-16 100mg ED.)
1-10 Nolvadex (Astrozeneca) 10 mg ED
11-12 Nolvadex 20mg ED

PCT
13-16 Nolvadex 40/40/20/20
13-16 Proviron (not sure yet) 100mg ED

I have access to Clomid, (cheap too) should I add it to my PCT as in 100/100/50/50? Or it would be an overkill?
I have 5mg Dbol tabs and I was gonna split it like 10mg in AM and 10mg 5-6 hours later. What do you think about that?
In general, please make suggestions on this cycle. All constructive input woule be appreciated. Thanks.


Daemonn

[Kale]

Greetings,

I am 39 years old, been lifting consistenly for the last 4 years. 6", 185 pounds. My training consists mainly of compound moves with free weights like squats, benches, clean and presses, chins, barbell rows, deadlifts. I have decided to do my first cycle after researching and studying AAS for the last 8 months or so. My goal is to gain 15-20 pounds while holding on to as much as possible post-cycle. I really want to minimize sides since I am very prone to gyno and acne. My diet while on gear will be approx. 4000 cals, 300gr Protein, 400 gr carbs, 120-130 grams of fat, mostly good fats. Here's what I have decided to run:

1-10 test e (Schering testoviron ) 400mg EW, 250mg twice a week for the first 4 weeks, then 1 shot every 4 days.
1-4 Dbol (Russian methandrostenolone ) 20mg ED
1-12 Proviron 50mg ED (after that debate with mod Marcus I might extend it to PCT, so it might look like 1-12 50mg ED, 13-16 100mg ED.)
1-10 Nolvadex (Astrozeneca) 10 mg ED
11-12 Nolvadex 20mg ED

PCT
13-16 Nolvadex 40/40/20/20
13-16 Proviron (not sure yet) 100mg ED

I have access to Clomid, (cheap too) should I add it to my PCT as in 100/100/50/50? Or it would be an overkill?
I have 5mg Dbol tabs and I was gonna split it like 10mg in AM and 10mg 5-6 hours later. What do you think about that?
In general, please make suggestions on this cycle. All constructive input woule be appreciated. Thanks.


Daemonn

Nice cycle although for your first you should stick to test on its own. As for Clomid some do and some dont, it does have some sides that arnt pleasent. The PCT you have described will work without Clomid.

[guest589745]

You really should just see how you react to them and take only test but dont expect too much, you might be dissapointed. After you experiment and see how you do on different cycles, you can determine what works best for your goals.

[jerol]

I agree with Kale.

I wouldn't use d-bol for the first cycle either. See how the test affects you first. Since you have virgin receptors, you will likely see great results from test alone and will have a great idea of how test affects you personally. If you develop sides, you want to know what they're from so you can make adjustments next time around.

I would have an aromatase inhibitor handy as well. Proviron alone might not be enough. Opinions vary, but Aromasin and Arimdex seem to be good options. I am using AIFM (a topical aromatase inhibitor) and have been happy with it (minimal to no water weight)... but I still have Aromasin/A-dex in reserve -- just in case...

Good luck to you!

Jerol

[Daemonn]

Thanx for the reply. I thought of test-only but its only 20mg of Dbol for 4 weeks. It shouldnt affect my liver much and I dont expect any serious sides from that dosage.
Do you then agree on running Prov on PCT?

[guest589745]

I thought of test-only but its only 20mg of Dbol for 4 weeks. It shouldnt affect my liver much and I dont expect any serious sides from that dosage.

Dont expect much gains from it either.

[Kale]

Dont expect much gains from it either.

I agree with Skull, thats a pretty low dose fro Dbol .

[mileliofthard]

I would NOT use Testosterone for a 1st cycle.

A novice should begin with NON-androgenic , NON-estrogenic, NON-progestenic compounds, Such as Primobolan, Anavar, Turinabol, Winstrol and even anabolics like Masteron & Equipoise.

I would suggest a BULKING cycle:


Weeks 1-10: Primobolan Enanthate , 600mgs
Weeks 1-12: Equipoise , 600mgs
Weeks 1-6: Winstrol Injectable, 100mgs ED
Weeks 6-14: Anavar, 50mgs ED

Thank me later.

[Kale]

I would NOT use Testosterone for a 1st cycle.

A novice should begin with NON-androgenic , NON-estrogenic, NON-progestenic compounds, Such as Primobolan, Anavar, Turinabol, Winstrol and even anabolics like Masteron, Equipoise.

I would suggest a BULKING cycle:


Weeks 1-10: Primobolan Enanthate , 600mgs
Weeks 1-12: Equipoise , 600mgs
Weeks 1-6: Winstrol Injectable, 100mgs ED
Weeks 6-14: Anavar, 50mgs ED

Thank me later.

Your name would be Ross would it ? And if thats the kind of advice you give, you are on the wrong board dude

[guest589745]

I would NOT use Testosterone for a 1st cycle.

A novice should begin with NON-androgenic, NON-estrogenic, NON-progestenic compounds, Such as Primobolan, Anavar, Turinabol, Winstrol and even anabolics like Masteron, Equipoise.

I would suggest a BULKING cycle:


Weeks 1-10: Primobolan Enanthate , 600mgs
Weeks 1-12: Equipoise , 600mgs
Weeks 1-6: Winstrol Injectable, 100mgs ED
Weeks 6-14: Anavar , 50mgs ED

Thank me later.

I would NOT use aas for a 1st cycle.

A novice should begin with creatine and protein

I would suggest a BULKING cycle:


Weeks 1-forever: 5,000mg foodadrol ed
Weeks 1-12: creatine ethyl ester 5mg ed
Weeks 1-forever: 300g protein ed


Thank me later



**sarcasm**

I think yer bein a lil overly cautious personally. And then you contradict yourself with the suggested cycle.

[Daemonn]

I agree with Kale.

I wouldn't use d-bol for the first cycle either. See how the test affects you first. Since you have virgin receptors, you will likely see great results from test alone and will have a great idea of how test affects you personally. If you develop sides, you want to know what they're from so you can make adjustments next time around.

I would have an aromatase inhibitor handy as well. Proviron alone might not be enough. Opinions vary, but Aromasin and Arimdex seem to be good options. I am using AIFM (a topical aromatase inhibitor) and have been happy with it (minimal to no water weight)... but I still have Aromasin/A-dex in reserve -- just in case...

Good luck to you!



Jerol

For the Dbol read post #5. Both test and Dbol dosages (400 EW & 20 ED) are on the low side. If I get sides from just that then f..k it man, what can I say? The way I see it there are no risk-free cycles. And I really wanna feel the Dbol rush everyone (well almost everyone) is talking about.
I dont wanna run an AI during the cycle since AIs are pretty strong compounds with plenty of sides. The Proviron+Nolva combo should control some estrogen and bloat, I dont wanna overdo it. I have Letro standing by just in case. In one day I can also get Arimidex and Aromasin, havent bought those though. Thanx for the input!

[guest589745]

For the Dbol read my previous post. Both test and Dbol dosages (400 EW & 20 ED) are on the low side. If I get sides from just that then f..k it man, what can I say? The way I see it there are no risk-free cycles. And I really wanna feel the Dbol rush everyone (well almost everyone) is talking about.
I dont wanna run an AI during the cycle since AIs are pretty strong compounds with plenty of sides. The Proviron +Nolva combo should control some estrogen and bloat, I dont wanna overdo it. I have Letro standing by just in case. In one day I can also get Arimidex and Aromasin , havent bought those though. Thanx for the input!

Than take a higher dose IMO.

[mileliofthard]

Your name would be Ross would it ? And if thats the kind of advice you give, you are on the wrong board dude

Is this BAD advice?

Please explain why I am on the "wrong board"...

[Daemonn]

I would NOT use Testosterone for a 1st cycle.

A novice should begin with NON-androgenic , NON-estrogenic, NON-progestenic compounds, Such as Primobolan, Anavar, Turinabol, Winstrol and even anabolics like Masteron & Equipoise.

I would suggest a BULKING cycle:


Weeks 1-10: Primobolan Enanthate , 600mgs
Weeks 1-12: Equipoise , 600mgs
Weeks 1-6: Winstrol Injectable, 100mgs ED
Weeks 6-14: Anavar, 50mgs ED

Thank me later.

Sorry but I disagree. Primo is junk anyway.
LOL, I dont think I will be thanking you anytime soon. Thanx anyway.

[LatinoPR]

I would NOT use aas for a 1st cycle.

A novice should begin with creatine and protein

I would suggest a BULKING cycle:


Weeks 1-forever: 5,000mg foodadrol ed
Weeks 1-12: creatine ethyl ester 5mg ed
Weeks 1-forever: 300g protein ed


Thank me later



**sarcasm**

I think yer bein a lil overly cautious personally. And then you contradict yourself with the suggested cycle.

....What about pct ??????..





LPR ...dermatology.

[mileliofthard]

Sorry but I disagree. Primo is junk anyway.
LOL, I dont think I will be thanking you anytime soon. Thanx anyway.

Primo is JUNK? Are you SERIOUS?

Methenolone BINDS to the A-R better than TESTOSTERONE buddy, and can even build MUSCLE in a calorie defecit.

Furthermore, not all STEROIDS ARE FOR MASS.

Some steroids--Primo, Var, Masteron , Turinabol , Halo--just make you LOOK SICK...


-Thank me later.

[Daemonn]

Than take a higher dose IMO.

Wait a minute bro. So you 're saying either a hefty amount of DBol or none at all? That doesnt make sense to me. I dont expect super gains on 20 mg ED but certainly more than 0mg, right? Anyway, what little gains Dbol will give me I'll take them, as long as I dont get many sides.

[Daemonn]

Primo is JUNK? Are you SERIOUS?

Methenolone BINDS to the A-R better than TESTOSTERONE buddy, and can even build MUSCLE in a calorie defecit.

Furthermore, not all STEROIDS ARE FOR MASS.

Some steroids--Primo, Var, Masteron , Turinabol , Halo--just make you LOOK SICK...


-Thank me later.

Look dude, Primo is a very weak androgen mild anabolic . It is extremely hard to find and a very expensive drug. It is mostly used for cutting and since this is my first cycle it should be (and it is) a mass one. You cant be seriously comparing Primo with test!!!Also many users I spoke with dont like its effects. And for Primo to be effective you need to run large doses. Everybody I spoke to would take EQ anytime over Primo. And I strongly believe that test cannot be replaced on a mass cycle by any other compound.

[guest589745]

Wait a minute bro. So you 're saying either a hefty amount of DBol or none at all? That doesnt make sense to me. I dont expect super gains on 20 mg ED but certainly more than 0mg, right? Anyway, what little gains Dbol will give me I'll take them, as long as I dont get many sides.

Basically yes. Not "hefty" but.......reliable I would say.

[Daemonn]

Basically yes. Not "hefty" but.......reliable I would say.

And what would that be? 30?

[guest589745]

And what would that be? 30?

I took 40 and noticed a great amount of strength gains, huge pumps and small size gains but was hard as hell. Maybe you will respond differently but 20mg seems like a waste. THe only sides I had was headaches for a week or two and felt tired but that could have been from the test above 500mg.

next time I will do 75mg

[mileliofthard]

Look dude, Primo is a very weak androgen mild anabolic. It is extremely hard to find and a very expensive drug. It is mostly used for cutting and since this is my first cycle it should be (and it is) a mass one. You cant be seriously comparing Primo with test!!!Also many users I spoke with dont like its effects. And for Primo to be effective you need to run large doses. Everybody I spoke to would take EQ anytime over Primo. And I strongly believe that test cannot be replaced on a mass cycle by any other compound.

Primo will not cause HPTA SHUTDOWN. TESTOSTERONE WILL.

Primo can NOT aromatize at ALL. TESTOSTERONE aromatizes HEAVILY.

Primo is virtually NON-androgenic . TESTOSTERONE is EXTREMELY ANDROGENIC.

*THIS IS YOUR 1st CYCLE! Life is not a TRACKMEET--it's a MARATHON. Slow and steady is the way to go..
Let's just HOPE you do not have sensitive nipples, or a gene for HAIRLOSS or ACNE.

Furthermore, everything you HEAR about primo is DOGMA. You do NOT need LARGE doses.

NOT EVERY STEROID IS A BULKING STEROID!

Anyone who KNOCKS primo has NOT tried it.

I use it in almost ALL of my cycles.

[magic32]

Looks good, but I'd save the Dbol for next time and drop the Nolva ED.

....What about pct ??????..
LPR ...dermatology.

Funny!
But since he's cruising (forever) he won't need it...

M.

[magic32]

mileliofthard-I would NOT use Testosterone for a 1st cycle.

[B]A novice should begin with NON-androgenic, NON-estrogenic, NON-progestenic compounds.

WHY NOT ?
Since when is being shut down a problem for the bb'er, novice or otherwise?
Though logically written, your reasoning is fatally flawed. Natty suppression and shut down are occupational hazards. Your arguement is tantamount to saying one should never venture outside because of societal dangers...how then can life be truly experienced?

M.

[mileliofthard]

WHY NOT ?
Since when is being shut down a problem for the bb'er, novice or otherwise?
Though logically written, your reasoning is fatally flawed. Natty suppression and shut down are occupational hazards. Your arguement is tantamount to saying one should never venture outside because of societal dangers...how then can life be truly experienced?

M.

Being SHUTDOWN is ALWAYS an issue for ALL steriod users.

Extended periods of HPTA SHUTDOWN can lead to secondary HYPOGONADISM.

Furthermore, this is his 1st cycle! SLOW AND STEADY.

This is why I follow something called the "Extended Cycle Protocol", written by a knowledgable bro. Using this cycling protocol, I can continue to make gains, without being SHUTDOWN.

[mileliofthard]

SUPRESSION AND SHUTDOWN are VERY different.

[guest589745]

Being SHUTDOWN is ALWAYS an issue for ALL steriod users.

Extended periods of HPTA SHUTDOWN can lead to secondary HYPOGONADISM.

Furthermore, this is hsi 1st cycle! SLOW AND STEADY.

This is why I follow something called the "Extended Cycle Protcol", written by a knowledgable bro. Using this cycling protocol, I can continue to make gains, without being SHUTDOWN.

I knew it was you Ross.

Come on, yer bein overly cautious.

[one8nine]

I would NOT use Testosterone for a 1st cycle.

A novice should begin with NON-androgenic , NON-estrogenic, NON-progestenic compounds, Such as Primobolan, Anavar, Turinabol, Winstrol and even anabolics like Masteron & Equipoise.

I would suggest a BULKING cycle:


Weeks 1-10: Primobolan Enanthate , 600mgs
Weeks 1-12: Equipoise , 600mgs
Weeks 1-6: Winstrol Injectable, 100mgs ED
Weeks 6-14: Anavar, 50mgs ED

Thank me later.

you cant tell me that stacking all this shit together (sometimes 1550mg per week sometimes 1900mg per week) is worse than 500mg test a week

[magic32]

you cant tell me that stacking all this shit together (sometimes 1550mg per week sometimes 1900mg per week) is worse than 500mg test a week

Very well put one8!

But some people are simply unreachable.

Hey Mile,
What color is the sky in your world?

M.

[mileliofthard]

you cant tell me that stacking all this shit together (sometimes 1550mg per week sometimes 1900mg per week) is worse than 500mg test a week

ABSOLUTELY.

Here is an article by the INVENTOR of the "Extended Cycle Protocol":

The Hypothalamus has Androgen, Estrogen, and Progesterone receptors.

Each and EVERY anabolic steroid affects these receptors DIFFERENTLY.

Some steroids affect ALL receptors, while some only affect ONE type of receptor, while others have very little effect on ANY of these receptors.

UNDERSTANDING WHICH steroids affect which receptors, and to WHAT DEGREE, will FULLY enable the steroid user to COMPLETELY and systematically AVOID HPTA SHUTDOWN!

By understanding WHICH steroids cause SHUTDOWN and which steroids do NOT, we can formulate a perfect EXTENDED CYCLE.

Steroids that cause an OVERSATURATION(too many receptors activated) of these various hormone receptors, WILL CAUSE SHUTDOWN.

Steroids that DO NOT CAUSE an OVERSATURATION of ANY of these various hormone receptors, will NOT cause SHUTDOWN!

The Following drugs either DIRECTLY or INDIRECTLY activate ESTROGEN receptors, to varying degrees:

Testosterone
Methandrostenolone
Mathandriol
Oxymetholone
Nandrolone
Boldenone

The Following drugs either DIRECTLY or INDIRECTLY activate PROGESTERONE receptors, to varying degrees:

Nandrolone
Trenbolone
Oxymetholone

The Following drugs either DIRECTLY or INDIRECTLY activate Androgen receptors, to varying degrees:

Testosterone
Methandrostenolone
Mathandriol
Oxymetholone
Nandrolone
Boldenone
Trenbolone
Halotestin
Oxandrolone
Stanzolol
Chlorodehydromethltestosterone
Methyltestosterone
Methenolone...
(ALL AAS*)

As we can see, the steroids that cause HPTA SHUTDOWN either OVERSATURATE ONE SPECIFIC receptor, or they activate too many TOTAL receptors(Androgen/Estrogen/Progesterone)

For instance, Trenbolone causes HPTA SHUTDOWN because it OVERSATURATES BOTH, the ANDROGEN and the PROGESTERONE receptors.

Testosterone causes SHUTDOWN because it converts to ESTROGEN and DHT, therefore, it oversaturates the Androgen/Estrogen receptors.

As we can ALSO SEE, the steroids that DO NOT cause SHUTDOWN of the HPTA, do NOT oversaturate ANY of the different hormone receptors, and thus, do NOT cause SHUTDOWN.

Methenolone(Primobolan) does not possess ANY Estrogenic or Progestational ACTIVITY WHATSOEVER. It does, by virtue of being an anabolic steroid, posses a SMALL Androgenic component. Because it lacks ANY ESTROGENIC/PROGESTATIONAL component, and it lacks a strong Androgenic component, it WILL NOT CAUSE SHUTDOWN!

Oxandrolone(Anavar) posseses NO Estrogenic/Progestational component either. AND, it also lacks a strong androgenic component. Thus, Anavar will NOT cause shutdown.


By understanding WHICH steroids cause SHUTDOWN and which steroids do NOT, we can formulate a perfect EXTENDED CYCLE.

*It must also be noted, that ANY steroid in LARGE enough DOSAGES for long enough DURATIONS, can cause SHUTDOWN of the HPTA.


NOT ALL ANDROGENS CAUSE SHUTDOWN*

"Shutdown", is defined by a COMPLETE inhibition of the Pituitary/Testes, resulting in a TOTAL cessation of endogenous androgen production.

SOME androgens will only SUPPRESS endogenous androgen production, resulting in a DECREASED testosterone level, but not a complete shutdown. (Tbol, Var, Wistrol, EQ, Dianabol , masteron , proviron , halo, primo)

Very Androgenic /Progestenic/Estrogenic steroids(Tren , Deca , Drol, Test) cause a COMPLETE shutdown of endogenous hormone production.

The distinction between SUPRESSION and SHUTDOWN is utterly important, as steroids that cause LESS supression of endogenous hormones will allow for greater retention of gains upon ending the cycle, and a quicker, easier PCT.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Horm Metab Res. 1984 Sep;16(9):492-7.Related Articles, Links

Effect of non aromatizable androgens on LHRH and TRH responses in primary testicular failure.

Spitz IM, Margalioth EJ, Yeger Y, Livshin Y, Zylber-Haran E, Shilo S.

We have assessed the gonadotropin, TSH and PRL responses to the non aromatizable androgens, mesterolone and fluoxymestrone, in 27 patients with primary testicular failure. All patients were given a bolus of LHRH (100 micrograms) and TRH (200 micrograms) at zero time. Nine subjects received a further bolus of TRH at 30 mins. The latter were then given mesterolone 150 mg daily for 6 weeks. The remaining subjects received fluoxymesterone 5 mg daily for 4 weeks and 10 mg daily for 2 weeks. On the last day of the androgen administration, the subjects were re-challenged with LHRH and TRH according to the identical protocol. When compared to controls, the patients had normal circulating levels of testosterone , estradiol, PRL and thyroid hormones. However, basal LH, FSH and TSH levels, as well as gonadotropin responses to LHRH and TSH and PRL responses to TRH, were increased. Mesterolone administration produced no changes in steroids, thyroid hormones, gonadotropins nor PRL. There was, however, a reduction in the integrated and incremental TSH secretion after TRH. Fluoxymesterone administration was accompanied by a reduction in thyroid binding globulin (with associated decreases in T3 and increases in T3 resin uptake). The free T4 index was unaltered, which implies that thyroid function was unchanged. In addition, during fluoxymesterone administration, there was a reduction in testosterone, gonadotropins and LH response to LHRH. Basal TSH did not vary, but there was a reduction in the peak and integrated TSH response to TRH. PRL levels were unaltered during fluoxymesterone treatment.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS



[R]

[mileliofthard]

Testosterone is HEAVY SHIT.

MORE ANDROGENIC than Primo, Anavar, Turinabol, and Winstrol COMBINED!

[r1ddl3r]

Who is talking about EXTENED SHUTDOWN PERIODS?

Why not ana androgenic steroid ?

Why the earth is not flat?
Why there is no Superman?
Why the hell I am answering in this thread?

[mileliofthard]

I REPEAT:

MORE ANDROGENIC than Primo, Anavar, Turinabol, and Winstrol COMBINED!

Why not JUST START WITH MILD COMPOUNDS?

YOU NEVER KNOW HOW YOU WILL REACT...

[r1ddl3r]

And people who cycle do not have primary testicular failure...

[mileliofthard]

The POINT is:

Save the Testosterone for later.

ANY anabolic support, given a PERFECT Training and DIET regimen, will yeild great gains.

Trust me, slow and steady.

This is NOT a game..

[r1ddl3r]

The POINT IS:

You have NO proof, NO studies, NO logic, just a big MOUTH!

[mileliofthard]

Not to MENTION--

He will also gain MORE MUSCLE on the cycle I suggested, vs 500mgs TEST weekly.

Weight does NOT equal muscle..

[G-1000]

The combination of those compounds will result is more overall side effects then test only.

[r1ddl3r]

Not to MENTION--

He will also gain MORE MUSCLE on the cycle I suggested, vs 500mgs TEST weekly.

Got proof?

[almostgone]

The combination of those compounds will result is more overall side effects then test only.

Exactly....and this guy has been banned about 5 times that I can recall. Why he keeps coming back is a mystery.

AG