for all you cruisers...

[tiger909]

im 19, 5-9, 189, 12% bf.....i have no cycle experience as of yet but am set on completing one for my may bb competition...i was thinking of doing only 250/mg week of test e for possibly 16 weeks or so...that is the only compound i plan on using....a few questions

1)what are the pros and cons of this
2) would it be possible to both bulk and cut while on this
3)can i do one injection/week?
4) what would pct look like for this


feel free to add any more comments
thanks alot guys....

i really am not looking to do 500/mg a week...the sides and drastic changes are too much for me....that is not an issue, plz dont try to convince me to do 500/wk

[lucabratzi]

some people like low dose cycles..i personally dont..i like running high doses...but try it out if ur not gettin the results u want then up it to 4-500...see how that feels...no u cant cut and bulk at the same time..i would run pct 20mgs nolva for 3-4 weeks and 100mgs clomid for 3-4 weeks...but why do u wanna run it for 16 weeks...

[tiger909]

i cant spend the first 12 weeks bulking, and then cut for the final four weeks?

[DSM4Life]

im 19, 5-9, 189, 12% bf.....i have no cycle experience as of yet but am set on completing one for my may bb competition...i was thinking of doing only 250/mg week of test e for possibly 16 weeks or so...that is the only compound i plan on using....a few questions

1)what are the pros and cons of this
Pro - will still make slight gains with fat loss as long as diet is tight and you do proper cardio.
Con - In my option, not enough. 500mg is low enough to start out with. do two shots a week mon morning, thur night 250mg each. Again have diet and cardio in check. I have a smaller frame when i started and had no sides with this cycle.
2) would it be possible to both bulk and cut while on this
My option, no. Pick one or the other. While bulking just eat A LOT but clean. Also add cardio (yes even for bulking) just keep it low intense cardio which will help keep fat away.
3)can i do one injection/week?
No, If you are going to do it then do it right. Twice a week my friend.
4) what would pct look like for this
Test e, 14 days after last shot, add some nolva or clomid or both. My first cycle i did both and was fine.
Some also take nolva throughout the cycle to make sure gyno never starts but thats a personal preference thing. You can take 5-10mg a day if you want.


feel free to add any more comments
thanks alot guys....

i really am not looking to do 500/mg a week...the sides and drastic changes are too much for me....that is not an issue, plz dont try to convince me to do 500/wk
I still see nothing wrong with 500mg a week for a first cycle being 12 weeks. Again if you say you still want 250mg a week still split that up twice a week, mon-thur 125mg x2

.....

[tiger909]

the reason i wanna do low dose is because i want to avod building a sort of immunity of test....im only 19....if i do low dose at this age, then by my fourth cycle or so, 500mg will still be effective and poowerful, im not sure if i expressed what i meant however

[tiger909]

and should i anticipate total ball shrinkage off 250?

[DSM4Life]

From your respones you need to do more research my friend. I gave my option to help guide you, so good luck.

[MorganKane]

At only 19 I suggest you wait a few years.

[tommy0677]

**EDIT** I thought I was quick LMAO

Before someone else does, YOU'RE ONLY 19!!! Just wait a few years so you you don't f**k yourself up. Thought someone else would have jumped in already???

[DSM4Life]

Before someone else does, YOU'RE ONLY 19!!! Just wait a few years so you you don't f**k yourself up. Thought someone else would have jumped in already???

Not here to promote doing gear at a young age but most are going to do what they want (like i did). I would have rather had someone tell me how to do it right then F myself up. Live and learn

[Kale]

the reason i wanna do low dose is because i want to avod building a sort of immunity of test....im only 19....if i do low dose at this age, then by my fourth cycle or so, 500mg will still be effective and poowerful, im not sure if i expressed what i meant however

Dude you have no idea. At 19 I am not surprised. Ang by the way if you think you can cut for a comp in four weeks that proves my point

[Hellmaskbanned]

Being shutdown for 16 weeks at 19 is not very smart.

[tommy0677]

Live and learn

I'd rather see these young kids learning from older guys who've been there and know there $hit already. I'm a newb to gear myself, but I can say I'm old enough to know (29) what I'm doing and to listen to what people who are experienced have to say. Everytime I read a young guy's post, there's always someone saying to wait, not giving them advice on how to do the gear.

[tiger909]

Dude you have no idea. At 19 I am not surprised. Ang by the way if you think you can cut for a comp in four weeks that proves my point

i never said im gonna cycle up until my comp.....and honestly i am gonna do the cycle regardless of age...i am fully grown and have a much better base than alot of the older guys doing cycles in the results forum...however i have an open mind and am willing to listen to your reasons of what could happen.....and please no parroting

[tiger909]

Being shutdown for 16 weeks at 19 is not very smart.

explain plz....ya ill be shutdown but ill have exogenous test in me so ill still be sexually healthy....and i dont think a mild cycle like this will shut me down for 16 weeks afterwords....

[Hellmaskbanned]

Shorten the cycle or run compounds that don't shut your HPTA totally down.

[Kale]

I'd rather see these young kids learning from older guys who've been there and know there $hit already. I'm a newb to gear myself, but I can say I'm old enough to know (29) what I'm doing and to listen to what people who are experienced have to say. Everytime I read a young guy's post, there's always someone saying to wait, not giving them advice on how to do the gear.

Dude I am 51 and trust me at 19 this is not a smart move. Sure there are plenty of guys who have started at 19 or younger, but the fact is they have a long life ahead of them and fvcking with you Endocrine system is not something that should be done with no idea what you are doing. In some cases perment shutdown can occur. At 19 I would suggest that he has little base to start with anyway to even justify doing juice at all let alone for a competition. I could be wrong but I would be suprised. I always like to show this article as well

"What is the Right Age to Start Using Steroids ?

By: Brandon Walsh
This article is being published in hopes of reaching some of the younger people, involved in our great sport of body building, reach their goals without making the great mistake of using steroids too early in their long lives. The problem with this is that most young bodybuilders (BBs) cannot grasp the concept of the future and how long the road ahead really is even with the use of steroids. How do you convince a 14 year old that it will take years before he can look like the Pro BB's in the magazines, and that he may never look like that even with all the drugs available in the world. Well that is what I hope to accomplish within this article.

At what age should you be, before you consider using steroids? This question is not as easily answered as you may think it is. You cannot randomly just pick an age and say that this is the point at which you can now start to consider using steroids.

Between the ages of 12 and 26 a male's hormone levels are on a steady rise until the age of 26. This is when these levels slowly start to decline until they are almost nonexistent by the ripe old age of 40.

When puberty starts in males at the age of 12 there is a huge flux in hormonal patterns in the body, which cause the growth of male characteristics, (deepening of the voice, growth of body hair, growth in height, etc.). These hormone levels increase by themselves so much that they can be compared to that of a mild steroid cycle. Therefore trying to add to what the body is doing on its own by adding in exogenous (outside) Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) is very counter productive.

Whenever any extra amount of AAS is added to the body, the body recognizes this extra level through a feedback loop in the human body known as the Hypothalamus. Once the Hypothalamus recognizes the increase in hormones which happens usually between 14 and 21 days, the body will shut off its own production of hormones until these levels decrease, along with increasing hormones to decrease these extra levels in the body (cortisone, estrogen). Cortisone and Estrogen are 2 hormones in the body that BBs do not need any extra. The easiest way to try to explain this without getting to complicated, is that the more AAS you put in your body, the more your body will try to lower those levels. When this happens BBs get all the side effects that are normally associated with AAS use, gynecomastia (growth of fatty tissue underneath the breasts in males), hair loss, kidney damage, liver damage, and high blood pressure, just to name a few).

Before you consider the use of AAS you should have already reached your genetic potential. What is your genetic potential? To figure this out you should first look at the weight, height and build of other members in your family. Is this exact, no, but it is somewhere to start. If every male on both sides of your family is approximately 5'7" and weighs between 150lbs and 170lbs and they are all bald by the age of 25, then it would be a good guess that you will also fall somewhere in those ranges by the time you stop growing. Now with working out and eating correctly for 4 years lets say, you would be able to put on 15 or more pounds of muscle tissue (that would mean you now weigh 165-185 lbs.). This is what your genetic potential would be. Now if you started to use steroids at that point, 165-185 lbs you may be able to put on another 15-20 lbs (180-200lbs). If you had started using when you were 125 lbs., and gained 25lbs through the use of steroids, you would still be well short of what you could have gotten naturally (150lbs as compared to 180-200lbs), and now it will be much harder to try to gain another 30-40lbs.

So for a starting point lets say that you need to be at least 18 years of age before you consider using steroids. Now that we have a starting point, lets look at a few other factors that should be considered. Steroids DO NOT IN ANY WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM makes up for a good diet and workout program. Most people who use AAS feel that this is the time where they can be a little more relaxed in their workouts and diet. Actually this is when they should be even more strict. So before you can think of using at the age of 18, you will need 3 more solid years of good training and eating habits. Minor changes in diet and workouts can result in great gains in mass and muscle as well as strength.

No matter how much assistance you get from AAS, without proper nutrition and workouts you will be lucky to have any gains at all, let alone keep them after the cycle is over. The goal of using any substance, legal or not should be that after you stop using it you don't loose all of that which you have fought to get. What would be the point of spending all that money (steroids are not free) to gain that 30lbs when you will loose it after the cycle is over anyway?

So the better question to ask instead of when can I take steroids, should be, what can I do to get all that I can out of my body without needing steroids?. In order to calculate my progress, I need to talk with my family and doctors, before I try to make a choice like that.

We will start with the age range of 14-16; this is when your hormones are raging. Your body is in full swing of making the best steroids that you can ever get, and it does all this without you even needing to do a single thing. At this point you should start with a solid exercise plan and a basic supplement plan in addition to the regular food that you need to be eating on a regular basis.

For workouts focus on the basic compound movements (Bench Press, Squats, Deadlifts, Barbell Curls, etc.) Working out 4 days a week with at least 8 hours of sleep a night is a great start. Add to that the extra protein that you should be taking and you will definitely start seeing a difference in your body. As for supplements, at this point all I would suggest is a good Meal Replacement Shake, multi-vitamin and creatine. Any shake will work, just add 2 shakes a day to the 3 solid meals that you should already be eating. Creatine has more benefits then I could start to explain in this article, but what I can say is that it will help your strength, muscle, speed, and recovery without any negative side effects.

By the age of 16-18 you will have had most of your growth spurts and you will be ready to change a few more things in your overall plan. You workouts can become a little more specialized as you start using different exercises. As for your nutrition program, all that I would think of adding now would be something such as extra glutamine before bed and maybe a ZMA supplement. You still don?t want to take anything that would alter what your body is doing on its own, so using ZMA and glutamine is just what you need.

Somewhere between 18 and 21 you should be just about done growing, so what should you do differently now? Add more protein! You should be getting at the very least, your body weight in grams of protein per day! And that?s at the very least! By now you will have been working out consistently for quite a while and should know your body very well. What will work and what won?t work should be old news. There isn?t really anything new to add to what is already a great program, other than Tribulus and maybe a pre-workout supplement such as Ultimate Orange. After this point, you can start to consider the use of steroids. What about them? Are they as terrible as everyone seems to think they are? As long as they are used correctly, I don?t think so. When considering their use, I feel that orals should be used as late as possible. These are most harmful on the body and therefore should not be used for a very long time.

Another thing to consider, other than the side effects I have already spoken of, is your sex drive. Some AAS will make your sex drive almost nonexistent and will have a big effect on your sperm count. These drugs in particular should try to be avoided. That leaves mild anabolics. Although they are the safest to use, they are expensive, illegal, and require the use of a needle. Which most first time users do not want to use.

I told you that this is not something that should be passed off very easily; you shouldn?t have to make the mistakes that most of us make by using steroids to early in your life. If used correctly, I think they are fine, but look at what it takes in order to use them correctly. Have you been working out for 5 years straight without more the 2 weeks off every 6 weeks? Do you eat every 2-3 hours, 6 times a day without missing a meal? Do you get 8 hours of sleep every night? This is something that can have a huge effect on your body for the rest of your life, so don?t make that choice in 10 minutes. Good luck and keep growing.

Designer Labs President / CEO *
Reply With Quote

[tommy0677]

honestly i am gonna do the cycle regardless of age...i am fully grown and have a much better base than alot of the older guys doing cycles

Since you're going to do this ultimately, I'd say do a lot of reading, get opinions from more experienced members and while you're at it why not post a pic of yourself in this thread showing what you've got as a base??? I'm sure I'm not the only one who'd like to see???

[Hellmaskbanned]

Primo, var, tbol, AAS that don't shut you down.

Low sides......Bro at 19yrs of age shutting your natural testosterone could cause problems down the road. Probly not , but lack of natty production could occur and so on.

[tiger909]

i do have a solid base...i have been lifting since the 9th grade, i wrestled and was a linebacker in hs...im of decent size, trust me bro...i may not have reached my natty limit but trust me, this bro didnt either 1st Cycle: Dbol/ Test Enth ...and it sucks that the responses im getting are not even concerning my cycle, but trying to persuade me of not doing it....to be honest, im sure your concerns are genuine, but i know plenty of hs guys who did deca , dbol , and abombs and came out ok, so im sure low test isnt gonna doom eme

[DSM4Life]

i do have a solid base...i have been lifting since the 9th grade, i wrestled and was a linebacker in hs...im of decent size, trust me bro...i may not have reached my natty limit but trust me, this bro didnt either 1st Cycle: Dbol/ Test Enth ...and it sucks that the responses im getting are not even concerning my cycle, but trying to persuade me of not doing it....to be honest, im sure your concerns are genuine, but i know plenty of hs guys who did deca, dbol, and abombs and came out ok, so im sure low test isnt gonna doom eme

I gave you all the advice you need. Now running along billy and go educate yourself more.

[tommy0677]

i do have a solid base...i may not have reached my natty limit but trust me, this bro didnt either 1st Cycle: Dbol/ Test Enth ...and it sucks that the responses im getting are not even concerning my cycle, but trying to persuade me of not doing it....

So strangers who don't know you and are trying to talk you out of doing possible irreversible damage to your body suck??? I wish people like that were an everyday thing. But enought of that, I wanna see a picture of this base he's got and now I know I'm not the only one


**EDIT** The guy in that post is 34

[tiger909]

some pix

[Hellmaskbanned]

I gave you my info and you seem to ignore..........but ok lol

[goalseeker]

...19?.....

[tiger909]

...19?.....

yup....why?

[Aliceinchains]

the reason i wanna do low dose is because i want to avod building a sort of immunity of test....im only 19....if i do low dose at this age, then by my fourth cycle or so, 500mg will still be effective and poowerful, im not sure if i expressed what i meant however

This is sound thinking, Tiger...Just go ahead with your plan, there are many guys that have made great (20-30 lb) gains using low (by modern BBing standards) doses.
10-12 weeks should be enough, though, you will reach a point of diminishing returns beyond which you're just making it harder to recover testicular function, even at your low dose.....

[Aliceinchains]

**EDIT** I thought I was quick LMAO

Before someone else does, YOU'RE ONLY 19!!! Just wait a few years so you you don't f**k yourself up. Thought someone else would have jumped in already???

There are 19 yo kids killing and being killed in Iraq.
Arnold started juicing at around 16 (He was HUGE and had won the European Universe by 19...)

[Aliceinchains]

Dude I am 51 and trust me at 19 this is not a smart move. Sure there are plenty of guys who have started at 19 or younger, but the fact is they have a long life ahead of them and fvcking with you Endocrine system is not something that should be done with no idea what you are doing. In some cases perment shutdown can occur. At 19 I would suggest that he has little base to start with anyway to even justify doing juice at all let alone for a competition. I could be wrong but I would be suprised. I always like to show this article as well

"What is the Right Age to Start Using Steroids ?

By: Brandon Walsh
This article is being published in hopes of reaching some of the younger people, involved in our great sport of body building, reach their goals without making the great mistake of using steroids too early in their long lives. The problem with this is that most young bodybuilders (BBs) cannot grasp the concept of the future and how long the road ahead really is even with the use of steroids. How do you convince a 14 year old that it will take years before he can look like the Pro BB's in the magazines, and that he may never look like that even with all the drugs available in the world. Well that is what I hope to accomplish within this article.

At what age should you be, before you consider using steroids? This question is not as easily answered as you may think it is. You cannot randomly just pick an age and say that this is the point at which you can now start to consider using steroids.

Between the ages of 12 and 26 a male's hormone levels are on a steady rise until the age of 26. This is when these levels slowly start to decline until they are almost nonexistent by the ripe old age of 40.
Designer Labs President / CEO *
Reply With Quote

Complete bullshit, I could'nt read anymore after that. I am 37 and naturally making the best gains of my life...Fourty pounds in 7 months!.I have twentysomethings coming up to me in the gym for advice all the time...

[Hellmaskbanned]

There are 19 yo kids killing and being killed in Iraq.
Arnold started juicing at around 16 (He was HUGE and had won the European Universe by 19...)

There are 12 yr old girls that are pregnant.


Name the few success stories huh? LOL where are the many ones that weren't.


I'm not saying he should or shouldnt ....Its his body he's old enough to make decisions. I just gave my input on what cycle he should run. He's more qualified in my book then some 24 yr. old with no training under his belt or desire.

[tommy0677]

There are 19 yo kids killing and being killed in Iraq.
Arnold started juicing at around 16 (He was HUGE and had won the European Universe by 19...)

How old are you Aliceinchains? And please share this vast knowledge you must have of AS. What's your cycle experience?

Is this kid Arnold? No, he isn't and I don't think he is on or will ever be on the same level (no flame intented) as Aronald. Nor is he in the same stoneage medical era as Arnold

Also, what does killing, being killed or Iraq even have to do with this dicussion? Pull yer head outcha A$$

[Aliceinchains]

There are 12 yr old girls that are pregnant.


Name the few success stories huh? LOL where are the many ones that weren't.


I'm not saying he should or shouldnt ....Its his body he's old enough to make decisions. I just gave my input on what cycle he should run. He's more qualified in my book then some 24 yr. old with no training under his belt or desire.

I think your advice is sound.

[tommy0677]

F**k it

here's my suggestion to you:

10 week cycle

125mg Test E 2X/week (125mg Monday & 125mg Thursday)

As for an Anti-Estrogen during cycle or PCT, ask around but at such a low dose of Test E you may not even need one or both? Just ask someone who's been around for a long time. The reason for 2 injections is to keep your levels from crashing at the end of the week.

[tiger909]

F**k it

here's my suggestion to you:

10 week cycle

125mg Test E 2X/week (125mg Monday & 125mg Thursday)

As for an Anti-Estrogen during cycle or PCT, ask around but at such a low dose of Test E you may not even need one or both? Just ask someone who's been around for a long time. The reason for 2 injections is to keep your levels from crashing at the end of the week.

so is this the agreement?

[Tesla]

Uh...Am I the only one who has noticed that Tiger909 has the Hezbollah flag as his avatar?

[Aliceinchains]

How old are you Aliceinchains? And please share this vast knowledge you must have of AS.What's your cycle experience?

Is this kid Arnold? No, he isn't and I don't think he is on or will ever be on the same level (no flame intented) as Aronald. Nor is he in the same stoneage medical era as Arnold

Also, what does killing, being killed or Iraq even have to do with this dicussion? Pull yer head outcha A$$

I believe it has relevance since there seems to be a philosophical reluctance to allow younger men to make self-directed decisions about their drug use...wether recreational or performance-enhancing drugs are at question, we can all pretty much agree that the "Do as I say not as I do" posturing of the older generation has never detered adventurous and intellectually curious youth from experimenting.
Aside from its futility, I am not at all convinced that there is any truth to the argument that AASs are dangerous for young men, and thus I reference the case of Arnold S., who arguably would not be the person he is today if he had not used steroids , beginning at a very young age.
Aside from the issue of closure of epiphyseal plates (resulting from estrogen exposure, thus not a concern with non-aromatizing compounds) I am not aware of any evidence showing AASs to be unusally dangerous to young men, and since most men have completed skeletal development by 18, I fail to see that the dire warnings posted by many are anything more than hypocritical posturing.
~AIC

[tiger909]

oh fvck....we really should discuss this in pms but just to tell you

i am an arab, non muslim, deist.....i support hezbollah as defenders of lebanon and the arabs, and i dont view them as terrorists

i dont hate israel or america or jews
im just a nationalist
anything else keep it to pms

[tommy0677]

I believe it has relevance since there seems to be a philosophical reluctance to allow younger men to make self-directed decisions about their drug use...wether recreational or performance-enhancing drugs are at question, we can all pretty much agree that the "Do as I say not as I do" posturing of the older generation has never detered adventurous and intellectually curious youth from experimenting.
Aside from its futility, I am not at all convinced that there is any truth to the argument that AASs are dangerous for young men, and thus I reference the case of Arnold S., who arguably would not be the person he is today if he had not used steroids , beginning at a very young age.
Aside from the issue of closure of epiphyseal plates (resulting from estrogen exposure, thus not a concern with non-aromatizing compounds) I am not aware of any evidence showing AASs to be unusally dangerous to young men, and since most men have completed skeletal development by 18, I fail to see that the dire warnings posted by many are anything more than hypocritical posturing.
~AIC

And this statement has what to do with questions directed at you?

[Aliceinchains]

some pix

Very decent...you will do well, young Jedi....

[Tesla]

Well, I'll leave the issue alone but I have to give you a piece of advice. There are people from all over the world who post on these boards...but many, many of them are Americans. Hezbollah has killed hundreds of Americans. So, it might be in your best interest not to advertise your support of such an organization openly on an international board.