Cycle thoughts for #2

[BigSwol]

Im just finnishing pct from my first cycle so Im starting to plan for Dec or Jan of next yr. First cycle was test e/deca, ran it for 12wks test 10wks deca, at a dose of 500test e and 400deca ew. Im 30, 6', and currently weigh 205-6. Been lifting for 10+ yrs. Still looking to add size and strenght, no super worried bout body fat, but if I guess Im below 15% probally close to12%.

I was thinking of

Weeks 1-4 dbol 40mg ed
Weeks 1-14 test e 500-750mg ew
Weeks 1-12 deca or eq at 400-600mg ew
Weeks 12-16 masterone(sp) or winney 100mg ed ???? (Unsure on dose)


Would like to try hcg during cycle or possible during pct, but need suggestions on doseing and timeing.

For Pct would use aromasin and possibly some proviron(gotta look into to proviron more).

During cycle would run aromasin also to cut back on estro sides,plus I'd use b-6 for progestin issues.

Let me know what ya think and add suggestions or make changes where needed. Thanks bros

BigSwol

[Surrender]

Im just finnishing pct from my first cycle so Im starting to plan for Dec or Jan of next yr. First cycle was test e/deca, ran it for 12wks test 10wks deca, at a dose of 500test e and 400deca ew. Im 30, 6', and currently weigh 205-6. Been lifting for 10+ yrs. Still looking to add size and strenght, no super worried bout body fat, but if I guess Im below 15% probally close to12%.

I was thinking of

Weeks 1-4 dbol 40mg ed
Weeks 1-14 test e 500-750mg ew
Weeks 1-12 deca or eq at 400-600mg ew
Weeks 12-16 masterone(sp) or winney 100mg ed ???? (Unsure on dose)


Would like to try hcg during cycle or possible during pct, but need suggestions on doseing and timeing.

For Pct would use aromasin and possibly some proviron(gotta look into to proviron more).

During cycle would run aromasin also to cut back on estro sides,plus I'd use b-6 for progestin issues.

Let me know what ya think and add suggestions or make changes where needed. Thanks bros

BigSwol

See what happens when a person uses two compounds the first cycle. Now if you use the higher doses that you have listed, You would be taking in approx 1.5 grams of gear a week for your 2nd cycle. That is just plain stupidity.

[briansauras]

See what happens when a person uses two compounds the first cycle. Now if you use the higher doses that you have listed, You would be taking in approx 1.5 grams of gear a week for your 2nd cycle. That is just plain stupidity.

not so much. My 2nd cycle was 750mg enth and 450mg deca.

I would do
1-6 50mg dbol ED
1-14 750mg enth EW
1-13 600mg deca or 400mg-600mg eq EW
12-16 winny 75-100mg EW

[BigSwol]

See what happens when a person uses two compounds the first cycle. Now if you use the higher doses that you have listed, You would be taking in approx 1.5 grams of gear a week for your 2nd cycle. That is just plain stupidity.

Im not following ya bro, don't understand whats the dif if one compound is used or 2 or 3 or 4? More gear yes...so what? Lets say I ran test only....good for me, second cycle I'd be adding test,deca and dbol + winney or mast.

BigSwol

[BigSwol]

not so much. My 2nd cycle was 750mg enth and 450mg deca.

I would do
1-6 50mg dbol ED
1-14 750mg enth EW
1-13 600mg deca or 400mg-600mg eq EW
12-16 winny 75-100mg EW

Brian you got the winny at 75-100mg EW. Do you mean ED? Also should the deca if ran be stopped 2 weeks short of the test? The same for eq or is one week sufficient?

BigSwol

[briancb1]

How were your gains from your first cycle? If you were to do it again, what would you change? Did your diet and workout hold up to your plans?

[BigSwol]

Gains weren't so good. I was figureing I'd get 20lbs or so and only netted 15. Although I pretty much kept all but 5-6 lbs. So I gained 10lbs roughly. Diet was pretty good but I could have used more calories, I also was running letro during cycle because I was afraid of gyno. The letro started to mess me up mid cycle to the point of stopping use and continueing with aromasin. I think the letro may have hindered some of my early cycle gains, ie water weight, but oh well....at least no gyno. Strength on the other hand was outstanding I was putting up crazy numbers for me personally.

If I could change a few things I would add the dbol to really get things going, Id also run the cycle a bit longer, thus the extra 2-4 weeks of gear. Also I would like to add a fast acting/hardner at the end of cycle to solidify gains a bit more(Don't know if this theory works, but it makes sense to me). This time during pct I'd like to introduce some hcg to rapidly return testicular axis to minimize muscle loss.

BigSwol

[Swifto]

I'd go Test plus an oral. Something like:

wk 1-10 Dbol 30mg/ED (Bloodwork week 5 or 6)
wk 1-8Test Prop 75mg/ED
wk 1-PCT HCG 250ius/E4D for testicular size/function.
wk 1-PCT Proviron 50mg/ED
Aromasin/Nolva on hand

PCT with HCG/Proviron/Nolva/Aromsain.

[briansauras]

Brian you got the winny at 75-100mg EW. Do you mean ED? Also should the deca if ran be stopped 2 weeks short of the test? The same for eq or is one week sufficient?

BigSwol

yeah i ment ED. the deca/eq should be stopped 1wk before the enth since you dont start pct for 3wks after last shout with deca/eq and 2wks with test.

[BigSwol]

yeah i ment ED. the deca/eq should be stopped 1wk before the enth since you dont start pct for 3wks after last shout with deca/eq and 2wks with test.

Ok I follow..

Thanks

[BigSwol]

I'd go Test plus an oral. Something like:

wk 1-10 Dbol 30mg/ED (Bloodwork week 5 or 6)
wk 1-8Test Prop 75mg/ED
wk 1-PCT HCG 250ius/E4D for testicular size/function.
wk 1-PCT Proviron 50mg/ED
Aromasin/Nolva on hand

PCT with HCG/Proviron/Nolva/Aromsain.

I like the pct protocol but wouldn't runnin the dbol for that period of time melt away your liver? I realize you'd be getting blood work done to monitor these type of things but I haven't heard of that length with dbol.

Also with the HCG would running it say for 12-14 weeks cause damage to the sensitivity of the axis. I see the dose is only 250iu's but just wondering, and that is run IM right, not sub q.....??

BigSwol

[Surrender]

Im not following ya bro, don't understand whats the dif if one compound is used or 2 or 3 or 4? More gear yes...so what? Lets say I ran test only....good for me, second cycle I'd be adding test,deca and dbol + winney or mast.

BigSwol

Here we go. A person only needs 400-500 mgs of test only there first cycle. 2nd cycle step it ip 100 mgs. 3rd cycle add another compound.

If done this way your 3rd cycle could have been 600mgs of test and 400 of Deca...Total 1 gram a week. You need to keep the doses as low as you can for as long as you can. I mean you don't want to have to put 4-5 grams in you a week do you to get an additional 5 lbs.

I'm 55 and have over 50 cycles under my belt and have never gone over 2 grams a week including oral with my injectables.

[Surrender]

not so much. My 2nd cycle was 750mg enth and 450mg deca.

I would do
1-6 50mg dbol ED
1-14 750mg enth EW
1-13 600mg deca or 400mg-600mg eq EW
12-16 winny 75-100mg EW

So what. Some fools do 2 grams a week for there 2nd cycle. So I guess you feel more is better. Keep thinking that way and someone will put you on the pre-mortuary program list

[fLgAtOr]

Here we go. A person only needs 400-500 mgs of test only there first cycle. 2nd cycle step it ip 100 mgs. 3rd cycle add another compound.

If done this way your 3rd cycle could have been 600mgs of test and 400 of Deca...Total 1 gram a week. You need to keep the doses as low as you can for as long as you can. I mean you don't want to have to put 4-5 grams in you a week do you to get an additional 5 lbs.

I'm 55 and have over 50 cycles under my belt and have never gone over 2 grams a week including oral with my injectables.

Relax. No one is challenging your knowledge or experience. You're right, most people will respond very well to test only cycles...But just becuase you do doesn't mean everyone does. That's nice that you've outlined a formula that everyone HAS to follow.

I personally think (with my limited experience) that he held his own when asked what he like about his first cycle and what he wanted to change.

Technically he really won't be running more than two compounds at a time, anyways. jeeze.

[BigSwol]

So what. Some fools do 2 grams a week for there 2nd cycle. So I guess you feel more is better. Keep thinking that way and someone will put you on the pre-mortuary program list

One way or another, we're all on that list.....some of us will just get to the head of the line faster.

Thanks and I value your opinion.

BigSwol

[briansauras]

So what. Some fools do 2 grams a week for there 2nd cycle. So I guess you feel more is better. Keep thinking that way and someone will put you on the pre-mortuary program list

His first cycle was 500mg enth, 400mg deca. What do you propose since you seem to know it all. Even though almost everyone of your responses i have seen are based solely on your own opp and noone else seems to agree with you.

[taiboxa]

So what. Some fools do 2 grams a week for there 2nd cycle. So I guess you feel more is better. Keep thinking that way and someone will put you on the pre-mortuary program list

psshhh.. i used 2 grams on my first cycle LOL

[Tunez]

so are you guys saying its okay to have this as a first cycle, like 500mg test and 400/500mg deca per week.....but its not recommended right? or am i just confused...many people/monitors are saying to do a test only 1st cycle...is it really that bad to do 2 compounds, .9g of gear a week?

[fLgAtOr]

so are you guys saying its okay to have this as a first cycle, like 500mg test and 400/500mg deca per week.....but its not recommended right? or am i just confused...many people/monitors are saying to do a test only 1st cycle...is it really that bad to do 2 compounds, .9g of gear a week?

Many say that it's "best" to start with just test, so you can learn how your body responds to a very common drug. Test can usually give you an idea of what to expect from other compounds becuase most are compared to test.

When you begin to add other compounds, you may get other side effects...Some of which may be treated differently. How do you know how to treat or what they're coming from?

It's a start small, work your way up, and learn your body as you go theory.

[taiboxa]

so are you guys saying its okay to have this as a first cycle, like 500mg test and 400/500mg deca per week.....but its not recommended right? or am i just confused...many people/monitors are saying to do a test only 1st cycle...is it really that bad to do 2 compounds, .9g of gear a week?

nah but i would lower the doses

[Swifto]

I like the pct protocol but wouldn't runnin the dbol for that period of time melt away your liver? I realize you'd be getting blood work done to monitor these type of things but I haven't heard of that length with dbol.

Also with the HCG would running it say for 12-14 weeks cause damage to the sensitivity of the axis. I see the dose is only 250iu's but just wondering, and that is run IM right, not sub q.....??

BigSwol

Not really. I managed Tbol for 11 or 12 weeks with a VERY slight elevation on liver values. I think liver toxicity is over hyped. But, bloodwork is imperative when using any AS, 17aa or not IMHO.

No. Leydig Cell desensitivity is rare at a low dose.

I have done "IM" and "Sub-Q". I prefer Sub-Q as its easier and less painful. But I've read, IM increases the active life of HCG, so is favoured.